Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


UK jumps on the bandwagon

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Politics & Current Affairs Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:04 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:
Whilst we're doing this, what are the world's largest polluters going to be doing (i.e. USA, and increasingly China).

Do they contribute to roadside pollution in the UK?

I don't give a stuff about CO2. NOx and particulates do appear to be pretty nasty.

Although diesels look to be the big culprits, so just mandating petrol would seem to solve that.

Likewise, it's farcical that London is hitting pre-Euro-3 bikes with the ULEZ mugging since their contributions to N0x are (by TfL's and the DfT's own admission) almost too low to be measured.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

techathy
Traffic Copper



Joined: 09 Aug 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:14 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:

Got a Zero FXS, the 40~45 mile range on a single charge, which can take around 1h given the right charging station & accessories, is limiting but the damn thing weights in at under 135kg.

For the most part I absolutely love it. A single charge does the commute to work and a few town errand runs, which its absolutely perfect for given the weight and riding position. Sure, it's top speed is on the slightly low side but then again any faster and it would need more batteries (there's the DS range with a higher top speed and weighing in at around 200kg). My biggest issue is the lack of noise, it really puts you in the cyclist category of road presence.

Honestly the combination of range & charging times of the Zero line up make me think motorbikes are a better way to push people onto electric vehicles.

Point of interest while I did purchase a high power petrol engined car this time around it was only because a cold hard look at the charging infrastructure for electric & plugin-hybrid vehicles was so poor as to effectively be useless for anything other than short local trips or very well planned long journeys.
____________________
Bikes: '17 Zero FX ZF6.5, '16 BMW R1200 RS, '12 Triumph Daytona 675


Last edited by techathy on 16:16 - 26 Jul 2017; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:16 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Ye cannae legislate the laws o' physics.

Not yet you can't but life will find a way. Thumbs Up

http://gizmodo.com/why-scientists-are-using-vibrators-to-give-turtles-bone-1797259097
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

doggone
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:12 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In some ways bikes have less problems as the weight of batteries is counteracted by lighter motor.
There's no heater or air-con to run, and less lights.
Most would not be too bothered if the range was more like 200 miles but charging times are still going to be an issue unless you could somehow slot in a replacement battery which was effectively rented.

Bear in mind there has been talk of court cases due to supposed pollution, this will be hard to take forward in light of this announced target.
But what other example do we see where something like this laid out by government when it flies in the face of all manner of technical problems.
The realistic way forward is to develop the practical and affordable electric vehicles then encourage switching over.
What will happen is increasingly draconian charges on buying and running oil burners which will be used to subsidise the (still expensive and inefficient) electrical options.

It simply won't do to hand wave aside the technicalities such as inventing then sourcing all these imaginary bettert batteries then charging them from sources that don't exist by infrastructure which doesn't exist either.
23 years might be a long time for a 3 to 5 year parliament but it soon passes bearing in mind they won't flick a switch in 2040 - things will have to be well underway in ten years time to have any hope of achieving the target.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:19 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuel cells maybe? So rather than charging batteries you merely top up the chemicals that cause the reaction instead of the battery unit.

Years ago I did some experiments with magnesium sea water batteries. Pretty weak, but all you had to do was carry some magnesium plates and some salt.

Personally I think in the world of 2040 there will simply be less need to travel. First off not as many people will be working.

Also the population that is living may live in mega cities or gigantic self contained buildings.

Jing-Jin-Ji for example or the GZ-SZ-HK mega city area. Add in super high speed rail and fast inteurban transport and cars/bikes may be changed merely to toys.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:43 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

techathy wrote:
Zero FXS

12,500 and upwards.

InB4 "yahbut, subsidies", we all end up paying for those, and they hide the true cost.

Yamaha have gone verrrry quiet about their long promised electrobikes.

At the moment, and for all the future that I can foresee, electric vehicles are going to remain out of the reach of the Just About Managing.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

-.
Super Spammer



Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:48 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume electricity companies are doing a little dance right now. I'm sure by 2040 all our energy will be provided by renewables, right?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:53 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of days ago we heard how:

"Ministers are reportedly set to encourage people to generate their own power with solar panels, store it in batteries and sell it to the National Grid.

Changes to the rules on electricity usage and storage could save UK consumers billions, including encouraging people to generate their own power and sell it to the National Grid, ministers added.

According to Ofgem, the energy regulator, individuals could save as much as 40bn by 2050 if new rules due to come into effect over the next year are successful. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-households-electricity-production-batteries-storage-greg-clark-business-secretary-tech-investment-a7856586.html

Solar panels plus off the grid storage would mean the cost for running an electric car would be very low.

No more new petrol or diesel vehicles would make an ever increasing shortfall in tax revenue. Laughing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ThoughtContro...
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:24 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Personally I think in the world of 2040 there will simply be less need to travel. First off not as many people will be working.

Also the population that is living may live in mega cities or gigantic self contained buildings.


That's the plan. It's not that you won't need to, it's that as a pleb you won't be allowed to, either via prohibitive taxation or simply more "Save Gaia" legislation. You're an inconvenience, that's simply not required any more. it's a good job your not breeding isn't it? Whether the upcoming forces of the Caliphate play ball with this deluded Western liberal bullshit is another matter, and they're outbreeding the dumb compliant natives by far. The only thing for sure is that Cucklio and his chums will be prepping the Islamic bull all the way.

Enjoy the non-ride, I'll be dead, thank fuck.
____________________
Proud member of the BCF heartless cunt squad
--
"In a world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:26 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Solar panels plus off the grid storage would mean the cost for running an electric car would be very low.

Highlighted the important bit.

Without subsidies, what's the payback time on a solar + storage setup? Bear in mind that you'd essentially need an equivalent amount of storage (~500MJ) as your electromobile takes. Or electromobiles, plural - I have 5 vehicles.

What's the time if you take into account depreciation on the assets? Panels and batteries don't last forever. Would you even pay them off before they needed replaced?

And that applies only to homeowners with the space to achieve an erection in the first place. What about Frankie Flatdweller?

I strongly suspect that even with 23 years to prepare that we'll still be woefully short of infrastructure when time is called on ICEs.

While ye cannae legislate the laws o' physics, you can easily reverse the polarity on laws. Bear in mind that the DVLA is still cheerfully registering deathbikes that they should have been knocking back since January 2016.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Bricktop
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:26 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I'm sure by 2040 all our energy will be provided by renewables, right?


Yes, by Fairy Breath, Magic Water, and Fantasy Gas.

Anything is possible 'In the Future'.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:11 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Without subsidies, what's the payback time on a solar + storage setup?

Yes, that is the question. Laughing

With some manufacturers advising buyers that the batteries should be replaced every five years, the technology isn't there yet.

Some quick sums...

If they degrade by 10% per year then after five years it would have 59% of the capacity / efficiency that it had when new, after another five years that would be down to 35% of what it was when new and after a total of 15 years it would be down to 20.6%.

During the first five year you're losing a total of 41%, in the next five you're losing 24% and in the next five you lose 14.4% (percentages are relative to the original capacity / efficiency). So if starting with 7kw, after 15 years with my example you're down to 1.4kw.

----

Frankie Flatdweller is out of luck.

With the changes to the rules on electricity usage and storage that are due to come into effect over the next year, whatever subsidised schemes there are will be most lucrative for those who get sign up quickly. People who signed up for solar panel feed in tariffs back in 2011 when they were first available get paid about 10 times the price new sign ups now get per kWh.

Quote:
I strongly suspect that even with 23 years to prepare that we'll still be woefully short of infrastructure when time is called on ICEs.

Yes we will. However they've also got 23 years to come up with an excuse. There's at least five general elections between now and then.

Oh, and the DVLA is a law unto itself, they can't be compared to the laws of physics or any type of laws for that matter.

Have a Tesla Powerwall. https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/powerwall
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Bloggsy
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:59 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Re: UK jumps on the bandwagon Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/25/britain-to-ban-sale-of-all-diesel-and-petrol-cars-and-vans-from-2040

I'll probably be dead by then.


Me as well but before I go I'll use both my bikes as often as possible and also use my DIRTY DIESEL car to pollute as much as possible Surprised Surprised
____________________
If It Aint broke Don't Fix It
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:01 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flippin' heck, I hate electric even more than I hate diesel, and there will be a similar government climb down regarding electric in the future. They're listening to the wrong experts.

Don't get me wrong, electric vehicles are cool toys but where does electricity come from? Wind, tide, solar? Yes a little, but mainly generated using fossil fuels because those renewable technologies, despite decades of development, won't fulfil our huge energy requirements efficiently. Likewise, hydrogen and battery technologies. Any late, miraculous developments are likely to use chemical elements which are very expensive and difficult to mine and purify, not to mention dispose of.

We need to look at biology which has had eons to develop sustainable energy generation technologies. In fact we already are. Biofuels from microbial fermentation of waste products (of which we have plenty) are the answer, and are truly green. They would also use existing combustion engine technologies and fuel distribution infrastructures. Just need to work out how best to tax them. Wink

Also, bio-oil, and especially the complex mix in crude oil, has a vital role as a feedstock in the manufacture of chemicals for plastics, medicines, you name it. In fact, burning such a resource is a little bit mental.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Vracktal
World Chat Champion



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:47 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThoughtControl wrote:
Itchy wrote:
Personally I think in the world of 2040 there will simply be less need to travel. First off not as many people will be working.

Also the population that is living may live in mega cities or gigantic self contained buildings.


That's the plan. It's not that you won't need to, it's that as a pleb you won't be allowed to, either via prohibitive taxation or simply more "Save Gaia" legislation. You're an inconvenience, that's simply not required any more. it's a good job your not breeding isn't it? Whether the upcoming forces of the Caliphate play ball with this deluded Western liberal bullshit is another matter, and they're outbreeding the dumb compliant natives by far. The only thing for sure is that Cucklio and his chums will be prepping the Islamic bull all the way.

Enjoy the non-ride, I'll be dead, thank fuck.



Vracktal wrote:
This is like Rule 1 of BCF:
Any thread on BCF, if allowed to run for long enough will eventually devolve into a conversation about muslims or the EU.

____________________
2007 BMW R1200R: ('the Boxer dog') On road
2009 BMW F800GS: ('Das Kraut traktor') Destroyed by unattentive cager
1975 Norton Commando 850: ('The WIP') Off road, awaiting recommissioning
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

-.
Super Spammer



Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:14 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Vracktal wrote:
This is like Rule 1 of BCF:
Any thread on BCF, if allowed to run for long enough will eventually devolve into a conversation about muslims or the EU.

Special rules for the politics section, all topics must merge into each other.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Johnnythefox
Crazy Courier



Joined: 01 Dec 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:17 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EU wants Muslims to stop us using internal combustion engines.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jjdugen
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:40 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one driver of 'progress', a new product. I don't mean developing smaller phones, or that they are converging with computers. I mean things like the very first personal computer, the very first mobile phones. Both generated whole new industries, lucrative industries. I was at the pointy end of the VCR revolution, it made fortunes for everyone. Before that, the TV, before that, the radio... etc.
Right now, everything has had the profit developed out of it, we are essentially running on mature technology. I'm no lover of electric vehicles AS THEY STAND. But a laterally developed personal transport system might well re-energise a moribund technological sector.
We ran on the back of filthy coal for 100 years, have run on marginally less filthy refined coal for the last 100. It is time to move on, even given the glaringly obvious problems.
____________________
The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Dave70
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:32 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:


You're right. They're not that bad at all. Unless you want to go further than a 37.37 mile lap. Then they're pretty bad, unless you like pushing heavy objects around.
____________________
There ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk.

2012: R125 killed by white van. 2016 R125 killed by 30,000 miles of redline. Current: 2016 Kawasaki ER6f.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

owl
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Oct 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:49 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

does it matter? we'll probably run out soon after anyway Confused
____________________
Observation is the greatest source of wisdom.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

.....
Quote Me Happy



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 06:42 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember, by this time all cars will be self driving and personal ownership of cars will by and large be a thing of the past.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Lord Percy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 06:58 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalemac wrote:
What about plans to ban fuel burning vehicles that are used in infrastructure, such as trains, lorries, vans, etc.

It's always the general public that take the hit first. Rolling Eyes


Long distance mass transport and freight will likely be the last to change because, as well as being harder to greenify, they're also most vital to keeping an economy going. So there'll be no silly levies or bans until there's absolutely something to ensure everything keeps running smoothly. At least, that's how it should be in theory.

General public on the other hand could be economised greatly without much of a problem. Buses, electric cars, electric bikes, pushbikes etc. Tons of ways to cut emissions in that area without affecting the viability of individuals getting themselves to and from work.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Lord Percy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:02 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

Also the population that is living may live in mega cities or gigantic self contained buildings.

Jing-Jin-Ji for example or the GZ-SZ-HK mega city area. Add in super high speed rail and fast inteurban transport and cars/bikes may be changed merely to toys.


UK will first have to overcome its crippling nimbyism to allow for changes in urban infrastructure, not to mention the need for a proper fat dose of very-long-term investment money from HM Government.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Johnnythefox
Crazy Courier



Joined: 01 Dec 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:10 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live in a flat but I don't mind extension leads for my car and bike dangling out the window and strewn over the pavement, cant see a problem with that.......
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

doggone
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:17 - 27 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just like fibre broadband main centres of population will get the charging points but if you live in smaller town or rural area you will be last on the list with no charging option for miles - and be running elderly vehicle with ever more taxes piled on to encourage you to switch to impractical electric.
- and -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/25/new-diesel-petrol-cars-banned-uk-roads-2040-government-unveils/

How exciting that money will be found to remove bumps and smooth traffic flow - the exact opposite of what money has been found for over the past 20 years where policy has been to deliberately cause congestion.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 1 year, 354 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Politics & Current Affairs All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 2 of 10

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: discovery (www) - Page Generation Time: 3.06 Sec - Server Load: 2.43 - MySQL Queries: 16 - CDN Objects: 57 - Page Size: 147.65 Kb