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doggone |
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doggone World Chat Champion
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Shaft |
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Shaft World Chat Champion
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 00:00 - 29 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me (and I've been pondering this for some time) why you can't use the rotary motion of, say, a wheel(s) or electric motor, to drive a generator, which would charge the battery that powers the motor.
I'm not talking about repurposing wasted energy, as in KERS or similar, but straightforward motion take off, as in an alternator.
Am I missing something fundamental? ____________________ Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Shaft |
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Shaft World Chat Champion
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 00:22 - 29 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Polarbear wrote: | Shaft wrote: | I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me (and I've been pondering this for some time) why you can't use the rotary motion of, say, a wheel(s) or electric motor, to drive a generator, which would charge the battery that powers the motor.
I'm not talking about repurposing wasted energy, as in KERS or similar, but straightforward motion take off, as in an alternator.
Am I missing something fundamental? |
Are you having a blond moment or engaging in a very subtle troll Mr. Shaft? |
Neither.
I've been talking about this with my work colleagues (between us we have 100+ years of working on vehicles that generate their own electricity to top up batteries) and unless we've forgotten something major in our educations, we can't see why this doesn't work, or can't be made to.
Please enlighten me, I genuinely want to know why this isn't possible.
Edited to add, I have almost a total mental block when it comes to electricity, but TBF, so must my colleagues. ____________________ Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
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Shaft |
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Shaft World Chat Champion
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 08:22 - 29 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Polarbear wrote: | Unless I am being thick, it reads like you are asking why we can't have perpetual motion.
With very very rough values -
An alternator is 50% efficient, a lead acid battery 90% efficient. and electric motor if I remember right is about 85%.
So your overall energy conversion efficiency of a motor driving an alternator to charge a battery to drive said motor is about 40%.
Therefore for every 'unit' of power from the battery you would replace it with 0.4 'units'.
Your battery would be very flat very quickly.
Add in a car, where are you going to get the energy to propel the car when the battery charging system can't even charge itself? |
I suppose it does read like that and I'm aware of the Laws of Thermodynamics and the principles contained therein, but that just highlights why the electric vehicle is a blind alley, with the technology we have available today.
Personally, I think we are way more than 23 years away from making an all electric vehicle parc viable - it's taken that long to agree on building Hinkley Point and that is said to be capable of providing around just 6.5% of our electrical needs in the 2020s, but I bet that didn't take into account replacing 26000,000 fossil fuelled cars with battery chargers.
So how many power stations are we going to need to do that and can we build them in 23 (or even 30/40/50) years?
And that's just one of the issues............... ____________________ Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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Going |
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Going Nearly there...
Joined: 26 Feb 2012 Karma :
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 10:32 - 29 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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iooi wrote: | As to installing a charge point down every street. who is going to stump up the cash.. |
Me, as usual.
On the issue of swapping batteries, tried and failed in Israel after flushing near to a birrion dorrah on it.
I'm sure lessons were learned and such, but it's a non-starter until there's one swappable battery to rule them all, which I don't see happening in the next few decades. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 10:46 - 29 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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The nearer and nearer we get to the deadline is going to put tremendous pressure on any government.
No one is going to want to lose their old IC car for scrap value and then spend £20k on a battery car. Everyone in the petrol/oil industry will be up in arms about losing their jobs.
The government is not going to want to lose the tax.
Want to win an election?
Manifesto - We will postpone (indefinitely) the banning of IC cars. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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Bozzy |
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Bozzy Traffic Copper
Joined: 20 Dec 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 11:28 - 29 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Nobody seems to have mentioned hydrogen powered vehicles?
Toyota, Honda and Hyundai have had hydrogen powered cars available since 2016. Admittedly, they are hideously priced, but 22 years is a long time for the price of this new technology to fall.
https://www.driving.co.uk/s3/st-driving-prod/uploads/2015/10/STM.HYDROGEN-STATIONS.11.10.2015.web_.jpg
As you can see, there are plans to increase the amount of fuelling stations. I'd imagine they will increase dramatically now in the run up to 2040. ____________________ 2004 SV650S >>> 2009 Street Triple R |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:48 - 29 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Polarbear wrote: | The nearer and nearer we get to the deadline is going to put tremendous pressure on any government. |
Why? No government ever stuck to anything in the past. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Bricktop |
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Bricktop Renault 5 Driver
Joined: 23 Jul 2017 Karma :
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Commuter_Tim |
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Commuter_Tim World Chat Champion
Joined: 09 May 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 22:37 - 29 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Surely for the same reasons of grandfather rights with licences, they can't take anyones current vehicles off the road forcibly?
Would there be anything stopping someone getting a custom made engine and parts then fitting that to a pre-registered frame? (apart from bank funds)
Surely once all the car drivers can't use petrol, the price would be stupidly cheap too? ____________________ The above post is most likely nonsensical.
I ride a Bandit 600... badly. |
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Vracktal |
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Vracktal World Chat Champion
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Shaft |
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Shaft World Chat Champion
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 22:54 - 29 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Commuter_Tim wrote: | Surely for the same reasons of grandfather rights with licences, they can't take anyones current vehicles off the road forcibly?
Would there be anything stopping someone getting a custom made engine and parts then fitting that to a pre-registered frame? (apart from bank funds)
Surely once all the car drivers can't use petrol, the price would be stupidly cheap too? |
Given that the eco/pollution thing has now gained so much traction, there's an obscene amount of money to be made out of it, I should think in 20 years time, 'they' will be able to do pretty much anything they want.
And don't think this just effects car drivers - it might not have been mentioned yet, but by 'cars' what they really mean is all IC vehicles, bikes included. ____________________ Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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Bricktop |
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Bricktop Renault 5 Driver
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Vracktal |
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Vracktal World Chat Champion
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Bricktop |
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Bricktop Renault 5 Driver
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 09:21 - 30 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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We are legislating on the basis that lab monkeys will invent something better than lithium-ion.
However, lithium is what Tesla is currently going hog wild on, and it's not good enough. Too expensive (and it will get more so, not less, as demand outstrips supply) and only suitable for overnight charging by garage owners.
We need iron, aluminium or silicon based battery technology that can charge at 100 miles a minute.
Do we even have that in the lab yet? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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M.C |
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Tracer1234 |
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Tracer1234 World Chat Champion
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Bricktop |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 271 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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