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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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 Posted: 19:31 - 30 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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I would hazard a guess that if Samsung and co who make mobile phones can't come up with anything better than we have now, it doesn't bode well for the electric car.
Someone told me Samsungs r&d for phone/tablet batteries was in the billions of dollars and they still can't get a modern phone to last a day.
In my opinion (for what it's worth) the countries/people are going the totally wrong way about what they are developing for the future. They are going for cheapness and technology that is proven rather than looking seriously to the future
We should have rushed ahead with nuclear development for power stations, the holy grail being fusion.
We should be looking at hydrogen power in whatever form because we have the stuff coming out of everywhere if we could only get how to produce and harness it properly.
But what do we do? We go for the cheapest for the government. Electric cars that they won't have to spend anything on, just force the consumer to buy them,
Electric cars will only be viable with remote under road charging and that's never going to happen country wide, can you imagine tryng to charge the pikeys for the electric they have stolen for their caravans. 
And then there is electricity production. The electricity will come from polluting power stations and a few nuclear ones. They won't invest in a project like the Bristol Channel barage because it would cost a fortune even though it would power half the country. But no, windmills and solar panels are the answer. 
I have the answer though - You want to cut pollution in London and other cities? You want to stop people driving, make all public transport free.
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| Bricktop |
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Bricktop
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Posted: 21:28 - 30 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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Polarbear gets it. 
Vractal, however, thinks that landing a rocket on earth using supercomputers in 2017 is more impressive than landing a rocket on the moon in 1969 using the computing power of a pocket calculator.
The huge advances are in the computers, not the mechanical engineering.
Last edited by Bricktop on 13:04 - 31 Jul 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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| M.C |
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M.C
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| Posted: 22:15 - 30 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | I would hazard a guess that if Samsung and co who make mobile phones can't come up with anything better than we have now, it doesn't bode well for the electric car.
Someone told me Samsungs r&d for phone/tablet batteries was in the billions of dollars and they still can't get a modern phone to last a day.
In my opinion (for what it's worth) the countries/people are going the totally wrong way about what they are developing for the future. They are going for cheapness and technology that is proven rather than looking seriously to the future
We should have rushed ahead with nuclear development for power stations, the holy grail being fusion.
We should be looking at hydrogen power in whatever form because we have the stuff coming out of everywhere if we could only get how to produce and harness it properly.
But what do we do? We go for the cheapest for the government. Electric cars that they won't have to spend anything on, just force the consumer to buy them,
Electric cars will only be viable with remote under road charging and that's never going to happen country wide, can you imagine tryng to charge the pikeys for the electric they have stolen for their caravans.
And then there is electricity production. The electricity will come from polluting power stations and a few nuclear ones. They won't invest in a project like the Bristol Channel barage because it would cost a fortune even though it would power half the country. But no, windmills and solar panels are the answer.
I have the answer though - You want to cut pollution in London and other cities? You want to stop people driving, make all public transport free. |
Does battery life sell handsets? See my earlier post, phones ~15 years ago had good battery life, but we want colour screens, touch screens and WiFi etc. (a modern 3310 has just been launched  ).
Audi have left and now Porsche are leaving endurance (hybrid) racing to compete in Formula e, with Mercedes, BMW and Citroen who are already there. Nothing pushes development like competition, and manufacturers are going to have well funded programmes.
There will be fairly rapid progress, and if the technology starts filtering down to road cars they'll have even more motivation. The future might not be electric but they seem to want to give it a pretty good shot  |
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Posted: 23:07 - 30 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: |
My point (I think) is that we have a breakthrough point where something is invented, and then years and years of either development or stagnation until the next critical invention point in time. Development can only get so far then a radical alteration of direction and focus is needed to push on to that next level. |
That was really my earlier point.
The present Laws of Thermodynamics effectively state that you can't generate more energy than you use, so we need to go beyond that, which can be done.
You threw a load of efficiency percentages in - the first steam powered pumping engines were, IIRC, about 1% efficient; we've moved on a bit since then, but not far enough.
The idea of the self generating electric motor seems impossible now, but that's what we need to get to, if we want replace IC with electricity and have the same level of freedom we have today.
Not impossible, but it ain't happening in the next 23 years.
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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Posted: 08:03 - 31 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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^^^
Not sure if satire or eldritch sorcery.
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| Codezombie |
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Codezombie
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| AshWebster |
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AshWebster
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Posted: 22:40 - 31 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | ^^^
Not sure if satire or eldritch sorcery. |
Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't meant to be 'funny', as you rated it.
To become accepted by the general populous, the electric car is going to have to be a direct replacement for an IC one.
So we aren't talking about perpetual motion, but it will need a range of at least 3-400 miles, won't take a minimum of half an hour to get a meaningful charge and definitely won't cost an arm and a leg to buy.
Add in the variety of different body styles, performance and equipment levels the public demand, plus the differing needs of various groups (towers, tradesmen, cabbies etc) and we're a lot more than 23 years away from finding the solutions.
Some of that will be down to the car makers and their teams of designers and branding experts, but the basics are the province of scientists.
Science is constantly moving, or at least trying to - for every'Law', there is someone out there trying to prove it either doesn't work in the way we first thought, or can be varied to produce different results.
And that is what is needed with electric cars - a different thought process, a new idea, or even something we don't yet know exists.
Which is why I said self generating (or an acceptable version of it) can happen, we just don't know how to do it yet, unless you believe some conspiracy theories around protecting energy industries.
As any scientist will tell you, just because something was true yesterday and is true today, doesn't mean it will continue to be true tomorrow.
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20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
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| Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Posted: 23:05 - 31 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Kawasaki Jimbo wrote: | | Shaft wrote: | Science is constantly moving, or at least trying to - for every'Law', there is someone out there trying to prove it either doesn't work in the way we first thought, or can be varied to produce different results. |
The Laws of Thermodynamics are well established and not doubted though. What you're calling for is perpetual motion as already mentioned, ie. something for nothing. Take AshWebsters magnet at absolute zero, all we need is a chiller, but the chiller will need power. Fossil fuels? Likewise hydrogen combustion, it makes water! But how do you make hydrogen? (Let alone compress, store and transport it.) |
No, as I've now said repeatedly, perpetual motion is not what I'm calling for, I'm looking for a dramatic advancement in technology, which doesn't appear to be on the cards in 23 years.
As for Thermodynamics, I'll bet you a tenner someone doubts them and is out there, trying to prove their doubts.
Whether or not that works out is a different thing, but it's that kind of thinking that has driven every discovery, from a round Earth to the WWW.
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Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 14:15 - 01 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: | So we aren't talking about perpetual motion |
| Shaft wrote: | The present Laws of Thermodynamics effectively state that you can't generate more energy than you use, so we need to go beyond that, which can be done [...] The idea of the self generating electric motor seems impossible now, but that's what we need to get to |
QFT.
Anyway, sodium-silicon has engaged my attention.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/does-new-glass-battery-accelerate-the-end-of-oil
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fruityvlod
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 17:43 - 01 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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They aren't thinking about cars, or if they are they are stupid....
Quote: In particular, he’s paying attention not so much to how quickly the battery charges but how well it can retain its energy.
The biggest total bugbear about batteries and cars is their time to charge. You can live with 100 miles of range, many of us do on bikes, if you can recharge 'instantly'.
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B5234FT
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iooi
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 19:45 - 01 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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| B5234FT wrote: | Modern electric cars have a range of 200 miles |
Tesla Model 3 from a 60kWh battery, OK.
| B5234FT wrote: | They are also able to charge to 80% in 30 mins. |
48kWh in half an hour is, correct me if I'm wrong, 96kW.
At 240V, I make that 400 amps.
Where are you charging it? At an electrical substation?
| B5234FT wrote: | No one should be driving for 3-4 hours and not taking a half hour rest stop. |
Sure, every car in the country should spend 1/8th of its time parked up and charging. At 96kW.
I can't see any issues with space in motorway service stations, or electrical generation, or distribution.
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Polarbear
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 259 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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