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Failed cbt :(

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Bonnie Lad
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 24 May 2016
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tracer1234 wrote:
Bonnie Lad wrote:
If you fail a CBT then you should really never be allowed on a bike on public roads.


Incorrect!! But I fixed it for you:

Bonnie Lad wrote:
If you didn't complete the CBT then you should not be allowed on a bike on public roads until you complete the training required.


Thumbs Up


Nah I was right the first time

If you genuinely don't possess the dexterity to be allowed to finish your CBT, you probably can't be trusted with a haridryer let alone a bike

Bang out of order if schools are turfing people off just to get rebookings though
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thepuma
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just remembering back to.my CBT and the instructor being so laid back...id never been on a bike before the CBT and after flailing round on the bike for the morning struggling with the gears (bloody false neutrals) and balance etc - I went out on the road thinking there's no way I should be given the CBT.

Got back to the centre and he dished them out like parking tickets. I think he went with the analogy that nobody died so everyone in the group was a safe rider.

Don't get disheartened...you will no doubt find it easier 2nd time round.
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M.C
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Joined: 29 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
You shouldn't have to pay again, definitely not £75 anyway. A number of people on this forum have had to go back for another days training.
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B0ndy
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 25 May 2015
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
How can you fail something that isn't a test? Hey I wonder what CBT stands for... Thinking
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
G.92 wrote:
they did not have a 2 day cbt as this is what i was looking for however

The CBT isn't a one day course, and advertising it as such is misleading. It's as much as you need to reach the minimum standard.

If they're not training you, then they shouldn't be charging you.

Contact the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) if you’re not happy with the standard of training you received, including if:

the on-road riding part didn’t last at least 2 hours
there were too many learners per trainer


Again, the numbers matter. 4:1 off road, 2:1 on road. If they didn't have 1 trainer for every 2 learners, then what was their plan for doing a full day's training with every learner?


G.92 wrote:
they did offer a pre cbt for an hour one to one training at £40 but mates that already ride informed me that i shouldnt do the pre cbt as the cbt is supposed to cover all starting points

Correct, it's Basic Training.

The good news is that when you go back there or somewhere else, everything will be much easier. It's a lot to take in, you'll benefit from a bit of time for it to sink in.
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Tracer1234
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Joined: 13 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 20:02 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bonnie Lad wrote:


Nah I was right the first time

If you genuinely don't possess the dexterity to be allowed to finish your CBT, you probably can't be trusted with a haridryer let alone a bike


I take it you passed your car theory, practical, cbt, mod 1 and mod 2 first time then?
____________________
Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15
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M.C
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Joined: 29 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tracer1234 wrote:
Bonnie Lad wrote:


Nah I was right the first time

If you genuinely don't possess the dexterity to be allowed to finish your CBT, you probably can't be trusted with a haridryer let alone a bike


I take it you passed your car theory, practical, cbt, mod 1 and mod 2 first time then?

I did Dance!
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L.93
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Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bonnie Lad wrote:
If you didn't complete the CBT then you should not be allowed on a bike on public roads until you complete the training required.


Thumbs Up[/quote]

Nah I was right the first time

If you genuinely don't possess the dexterity to be allowed to finish your CBT, you probably can't be trusted with a haridryer let alone a bike

Bang out of order if schools are turfing people off just to get rebookings though[/quote]

They actually told someone standing there (looked like their manager or something) that i was rebooking again but i hadnt even said i was yet they just assumed
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Tracer1234
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

I did Dance!


Me too, but with mateys superiority complex, I can only assume he did too.
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Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15
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RodYork
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Joined: 11 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
G.92- where are you in the country- your profile is not complete.
There are anomalies with the training.
I gather that you understand that its not a pass/fail course- you have to be at the required level (safe) to ride on the road for a minimum of 2 hrs(road riding)
Its assumed you know your highway code when you arrive- but as its BASIC training- if you cannot ride a moped/bike- then you will be shown..but you must be able to demonstrate that you are taking in the information & replicating it.
If you had to be self critical- where would you say that you felt weak and did you revise the highway code prior to attending?...we can then move onto the specifics of trainer ratios on the road and any redress you may have
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ARS125
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Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Failed cbt :( Reply with quote
G.92 wrote:
'if you was my daughter then i would want you to have more pratice first thats why you wont be doing the next part'


Just from this alone, find another school.

What some instructors don't understand is that you learn very little on a single day of a CBT. Most of the learning comes when you get handed your CBT and actually get on the road alone.

I failed 2 CBT's but passed on my 3rd attempt. And i only really passed because i changed schools.

Try and find a more care free school who will not expect you to be a competent rider after just hours of riding a motorcycle.

Did any of you learn much from the off road training element of the CBT? because i didn't. Most of the yard training is shit you would never encounter on the open roads. E.g its MUCH harder to do a figure of eight with cones than it is to filter a bike through traffic.

Book again, new school.
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L.93
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Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
RodYork wrote:
G.92- where are you in the country- your profile is not complete.
There are anomalies with the training.
I gather that you understand that its not a pass/fail course- you have to be at the required level (safe) to ride on the road for a minimum of 2 hrs(road riding)
Its assumed you know your highway code when you arrive- but as its BASIC training- if you cannot ride a moped/bike- then you will be shown..but you must be able to demonstrate that you are taking in the information & replicating it.
If you had to be self critical- where would you say that you felt weak and did you revise the highway code prior to attending?...we can then move onto the specifics of trainer ratios on the road and any redress you may have


Im in south west london.. Yeah i know its not a pass or fail course.. just feels like a fail.. i understand that i have to be safe i assumed that if i wasnt ready for the road i would spend the rest of the day praticing then come back another day to do on road or something but they just sent me home with no real explanation.. i know the highway code i have been driving a car for 6 years.. well the guy kept saying throughout the day that i was improving and i felt i was too.. i know i wasnt 100% on everything of course, i feel i just needed more pratice with the bike and controls.. i was riding a 125cc manual motorcycle.. there was a group of 4 of us and they would send us round in a circle one at a time each time with something new and this only went on for 2 hours so like half hour each of actually riding and praticing.. so not much time for a absolute beginner, which is the whole point of the cbt?
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RodYork
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Joined: 11 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK- thanks for giving me more information to work with.
I assume the training school (ATB) was used by the same people who recommended you to not bother with the taster session- was their experience similar?
You are absolutely correct- the aim of the CBT is to ensure you are familiar/confident to ride safely on the road.
I'm not sure if you felt confident with the gears and if you were all sharing one bike in the yard which resulted in so little training time?
so the Questions are
1.Did your mates use the same company
2.1 bike between 4?
3.confidence on gears?...I know you mentioned bike controls, but did you manage the emergency stop or talk about the legality of riding on the road ie did they talk about the highway code etc?...any other areas you felt less confident please?
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Tracer1234
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bonnie Lad wrote:


The CBT is a training course pitched so low that anyone who 'fails' it has no place anywhere near a motorised bicycle


Indeed, until they do a little more practice, then, off they ride, into the sunset!
____________________
Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15
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Bonnie Lad
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 24 May 2016
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Into the side of the first bus they see more likely
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Tracer1234
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bonnie Lad wrote:
Into the side of the first bus they see more likely


No silly. They have had a bit more training and practice and are now deemed fit to ride on the road remember. The fact that he/she didn't do it in one day, dosen't mean diddly.

Very Happy
____________________
Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15
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ARS125
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bonnie Lad wrote:


The CBT is a training course pitched so low that anyone who 'fails' it has no place anywhere near a motorised bicycle


Bullshit.

Because how its pitched depends on each school and varies greatly.

Some places will fail you for stalling the bike, others will require you to smash head on into a vehicle before they decide its a no pass.

Plenty of people fail CBT and pass on second or even more attempts.
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Bonnie Lad
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 24 May 2016
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tracer1234 wrote:
Bonnie Lad wrote:
Into the side of the first bus they see more likely


No silly. They have had a bit more training and practice and are now deemed fit to ride on the road remember. The fact that he/she didn't do it in one day, dosen't mean diddly.

Very Happy


No, you're right

Taking multiple attempts to get through a training course that is elementary in the extreme doesn't mean anything when it comes to someone's riding aptitude
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RodYork
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Joined: 11 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
there are plenty of options if someone is not ready to ride on the road after the companies(ATB) allocated time slot of road riding.
There are admittedly some people who are not really suitable to ride through balance/sight/co-ordination etc
sometimes trainers are given too many students to deal with in relation to their experience/knowledge- so the day can quickly go down hill- but that is not the students fault- they have paid their money & expect a level of instruction to give them the best possible chance of success.
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L.93
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 02 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
RodYork wrote:
OK- thanks for giving me more information to work with.
I assume the training school (ATB) was used by the same people who recommended you to not bother with the taster session- was their experience similar?
You are absolutely correct- the aim of the CBT is to ensure you are familiar/confident to ride safely on the road.
I'm not sure if you felt confident with the gears and if you were all sharing one bike in the yard which resulted in so little training time?
so the Questions are
1.Did your mates use the same company
2.1 bike between 4?
3.confidence on gears?...I know you mentioned bike controls, but did you manage the emergency stop or talk about the legality of riding on the road ie did they talk about the highway code etc?...any other areas you felt less confident please?


No not used by the same people as it was people at work who i discussed with and this is some miles from my home address.. i wasnt great with gears to begin with but picked it up as i went along.. the instructor was not always clear on what controls to use where and when so i had to ask.. no we all had a bike each not sure why we went one at a time. was not very much space they did mention they used to have more space but cant use some of it as being used.. yep done emergency stop.. yep talked about highway code.. i wasnt 100% confident in anything because the instructor showed us one thing we went round once then showed us the next thing.. didnt have a chance to try things a few times to get hang of it.. so i know its partly to do with my confidence but i think the school aswell.. i just wanted an opinion really to see how other schools faired.. this one is rated the best in my area.. i have tried contacting them to ask where exactly i went wrong so i know for future and to see if i can maybe do another day as i paid for a full day but only done couple hours before they went on the road and said i couldnt do it.. but ive had no reply
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RodYork
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 11 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: 06:58 - 03 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK L93
The board member Rogerborg, amongst others have offered some good advice.

I can see you appear to have completed all elements(sections), right upto the road ride.

Some students take to riding a bike quicker than others- people learn at differing stages. Some are clearly not going to get the hang of it & so other options should be explored in order to get you to ride safely, ultimately leading to your CBT- did you insist on a 125 geared bike?

For some people; riding a bike safely is not ever an option- (its unlikely I will ever have the aptitude to land a spacecraft or carry out complex surgery)..somethings you must accept are not in your make up-we are all created differently & you might be better at other things than your instructor for the day.

Ultimately its the qualified instructors call (he observed/trained you)-I would imagine he has your safety in mind- so bear that in mind please.

2 quick questions
1.how much was the CBT
2.Where did you see the ratings to establish they were the best in your area?
I have PM'd you
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Last edited by RodYork on 07:33 - 03 Aug 2017; edited 2 times in total
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 07:24 - 03 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
L.93 wrote:
...... so like half hour each of actually riding and praticing.. so not much time for a absolute beginner, which is the whole point of the cbt?


They pulled the plug that soon? Find a different school and never go back there, That's shocking.

We've been known to spend an hour just getting someone pulling away. Only after we've exhausted ALL other tricks, tactics and methods (sometimes using every instructor on duty) we give the option of a ped with a promise of geared conversion thrown in at the end for free.

Our Element C (riding on pad) takes a few hours, It's not much quicker if we have only 1 student, if its a ped then it's a bit faster again as there is no clutch to teach.

Get to a different school, explain what happened when you call and see what they can offer. Chances are high you'll get a reply along the lines of "We know what that school are like and that does not surprise me!"

Come to Gosport for a day. Wink
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 07:33 - 03 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bonnie Lad wrote:
The CBT is a training course pitched so low that anyone who 'fails' it has no place anywhere near a motorised bicycle

The odds are somewhat stacked against you if there are three people doing the CBT course and only one instructor who's a bit crappy.

In that situation it doesn't matter how good the three CBT people are because the instructor can only take two of them on the roads at a time. Either the instructor is going to be spending two hours on the road with the third person or that third person is going home without a DL196 CBT certificate.

The instructor will probably have known right from the very start of the day if he was going to be willing to stay an extra two hours so the third person could complete the road part of the CBT.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 07:43 - 03 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
L.93 wrote:
half hour each of actually riding and praticing.. so not much time for a absolute beginner, which is the whole point of the cbt?

Correct. That's taking liberties. Given how much time has to go into the initial talky-elements, you should be spending every available second actually riding on the bike. You're not going to learn by watching someone else.

Was the yard not big enough for all of you to be riding round at once?

Either way, I'd take my money elsewhere and ask for a partial refund from that shower and rat them out to the DVSA. Bawwing about it online will solve nothing.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Last edited by Rogerborg on 08:54 - 03 Aug 2017; edited 1 time in total
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