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MCN review Suzuki's new GSX250R

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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
this bike will do well with rich kids that think it's something it isn't.

Because of the not-quite-a-gixxer badge, or the GP paint scheme?

Aside, I've just spotted that the Ninja 300 and 250 have both been discontinued for 2017 - it wasn't even worth Kawasaki's bother updating them for Euro 4. Hyosung and Daelim also appears to have given up on their 250s.

However the not-a-gixxer loses out to the remaining "sports" bikes in the A2 category: the R3, RC390 and CBR500R all thrash it on performance, and even the CBR300R beats it on performance and weight and price.

As a prettified Inazuma it might work, but it's about a grand over-priced for that purpose, and I'd expect it to be fire-saled from new.

I just don't get what Suzuki were thinking.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well as BCF's resident 250file and having read the links I can say that I wouldn't buy one.
As a full license holder, my 250s are my fun bikes/bikes I worry less about.
I still need them to at least have a bit of go in them, that Suzuki doesn't look like it would have much zip in it.
It's WAY to exspensive!
If I had just progressed to a better license , I'd be looking a cheaper second hand 250 until I progressed to a full license.

I'll bet my last dollar that my Hyosung is/would be a better bet as a 250 bike.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Because of the not-quite-a-gixxer badge, or the GP paint scheme?


Yes; bare racebike YO.

Rogerborg wrote:
Aside, I've just spotted that the Ninja 300 and 250 have both been discontinued for 2017 - it wasn't even worth Kawasaki's bother updating them for Euro 4. Hyosung and Daelim also appears to have given up on their 250s.

However the not-a-gixxer loses out to the remaining "sports" bikes in the A2 category: the R3, RC390 and CBR500R all thrash it on performance, and even the CBR300R beats it on performance and weight and price.


I'm not surprised on them being discontinued - they're a non-seller. Which is a shame as because as you say, yours is a handy little bike that's got its place in the world. But there aren't enough stupid people out there to sell them (brand new/non-discounted) to.

Rogerborg wrote:
As a prettified Inazuma it might work, but it's about a grand over-priced for that purpose, and I'd expect it to be fire-saled from new.

I just don't get what Suzuki were thinking.


Me neither - and already called it my heritage-bro:

arry wrote:
It'll sell when they drop the price by 900 quid on pre registered deals on 0% finance. Possibly.... there are some idiots out there.


My only guess is that they saw a gap in their range and filled it with something the generic parts bin could produce relatively cheaply. If it's the DL250 in disguise I'd not be terribly surprised.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Arry, the thing is if your going to have it as a second bike. And especially if it's one that ain't gotta be a reliable daily ride, you might as well buy an old RG125FUN or RG200. Both have at least 30bhp, weigh 30-40kg less dry, and would be once set up a proper little back roads scalpel.

The big RGV would be like a flighty twitchy little exocet missile in comparison.

I know I'm being a cock talking about something that can never be A2 compliant, but anyone who's buying a small bike for a second bike that doesn't apply to.


Sort of proving my point a bit although not the way I'd go about it.

If you've got a full licence the 250/300's won't interest you even as a second bike, unless you can get one cheap, at which point you'll probably buy one and enjoy it. Otherwise you'll buy something else. That leaves only the A2 kids to buy them and frankly they're not doing so in sufficient volumes.

However, find a dozen examples of each of the bikes you've mentioned anywhere in the country for sale right now? Sort of limited choice really; and again therefore you end up with something else (like I did, a 500 Enfield).

Quote:
Your point about making these A2 bikes cheap and heavy, is fair too, but in the 90's you couldn't sell a sportsbike if it wasn't an aluminium beam framed, high tech bike with fully adjustable suspension, and stuff like USD forks, sticky tyres and big brakes.


Glory days. Long since passed.

Quote:
I don't think peoples want list is much different today really.


Want is one thing; willing to pay for is another. I think I've seen possibly 2-3 people on here in 7-8 years ACTUALLY go out and buy a brand new litre exotica, for example. There's examples of people moaning that an MT07 is too expensive these days. Look what's happened to 125 sales since Euro4 compliance was made mandatory and the price got whacked. Imagine asking someone to part with something ridiculous like £8k for a relative tiddler? It'd have to be pretty drippy with kit and again, there wouldn't be a natural hotbed of buyers flocking to the dealership.

Quote:
Saying that theres people mostly older folk buying these CBR 300's and Ninja's etc as a light easy to manage bike in their late riding years, just as they would buy a scooter etc. But the A2 bikes arnt selling to anyone who actually is supposed to buy them due to their licencing restrictions.


Exactly - and I'd hazard a guess even the old-timers aren't buying them new, which is why there's so few about.

It's a shame, but it' where we're at.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
M.C wrote:

250s used to be more powerful tiddlers, now they just seem to be underpowered big bikes. Also probably worth remembering Suzuki don't want to sell bikes, otherwise it would be a 300.


Buying habits change. Just look on here - near every what bike on A2 the Fazer gets thrown in because it's the most powerful you can have 'restricted'. The 250/300 class isn't selling bucket loads these days as everyone wants a 600+ and even then 800cc seems to be the new middleweight. The only reason to have a 250 is because your licence stops you having something bigger - this bike will do well with rich kids that think it's something it isn't. Much like the R125. But it's an even more limited market than that. It's no surprise they won't throw a load of effort and development at it.

Hell 20 mins ago you were advocating a lad not to bother with A2 for the couple of years he had to wait for DAS. So that's another one that's not going to buy a tiddler.

They're alright second bikes - much as Roger is proving - but as an only bike? Not so sure.

Shows how bad 'what bike' advice's on this forum Smile I can't think of anything worse than a restricted big bike, unless you're eyeing up taking your 'A tests'.

I think the new 300s have become more relevant with the A2 licence category. With the old 33bhp restriction you could get a Hornet, and then decide if your restrictors were going to fall out. With the A2 rules you run the risk of a clued up copper or your insurer asking questions.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your implying that out of the vastly reduced pool of cops today, that there's more tech nerds and bike savvy ones than there are doughnut eating lazy bastards hassling people for no reason and blanking out the fact that there's real proper crimes going on right now, which might get messy.

''Fuck it, we're best off sat here eating more doughnuts is the preferred and safest response that we know best, so that's what we'll do''.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do we need to do though to make bikes and biking take up bigger and more interesting?

Scrap A2 licenses?
See the thing with that is due to today's market conditions and economic situation, I can't see the Japanese suddenly saying right we're free to make 60bhp 140kg 250cc missiles dripping in spec and track parts.

They've been happily making fake sports steel frame bikes with semi upright riding positions, cheap components and as much Chinese parts and even machine assembly as possible, before slapping on some big bright CBR logos etc.

If they can still sell just a few, it'll be cheaper for the manufacturers that saying I want piles of aluminium, magnesium, carbon and titanium everywhere, and all your bike components must be made from these materials with no outsourcing or tacky but eye catching cheap Chinese crap.

There ain't the money in bikes to even try to go a bit more edgy and high tech.

That's what worries me about electric sports bikes being around in the future, shit loads of cost for a shrinking percentage of fuck all market.

The litre sports bikes might just in my opinion get 2 maybe 3more updates or new versions before they are all canned too. They are too expensive to make in the 'my dick is bigger than your dick' market.

I saw and sat on a mint 98 R1 yesterday, and just looking at it punched me in the face with the same crazy awesomeness it had it 98. We won't see these leaps in bike design again and manufacturer's trying to rip the head of their rivals bikes and piss down their neck.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Your implying that out of the vastly reduced pool of cops today, that there's more tech nerds and bike savvy ones than there are doughnut eating lazy bastards hassling people for no reason and blanking out the fact that there's real proper crimes going on right now, which might get messy.

''Fuck it, we're best off sat here eating more doughnuts is the preferred and safest response that we know best, so that's what we'll do''.

Fazer... whatever got an email from his insurer asking about the eligibility of his FZS600 (they thought it was ineligible for A2). Before you could have a Ninja 636 with Paddy Cert' and you were legit.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
What do we need to do though to make bikes and biking take up bigger and more interesting?

In the 19-23 bracket, more fun (= poke + lightness) + more cheapness. And I mean significantly more cheapness, as in a number starting with a 2 rather than a 4 or a 5.

A2 + Euro4-bollocks guarantees pretty much the opposite of that.

This bike is the epitome of that opposite.

I think it's very telling that Kawasaki have just given up on the segment. Total sales of all 11 (!) versions of the Ninja 300 came to under 1000 bikes.

The R3 has sold under 500.

RC390, under 450.

CBR300R under 300.

The stonking success has been the CBR500R with about 2000 sold.

As I've noted every time an A2 "sports" bike comes out: if you're on your way up the licensing categories, why would you settle for less than the 35kW limit that you're allowed?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:10 - 10 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now in MCN's fleet.

"I want to spend my time with the GSX transforming it into the nippy pocket rocket it deserves to be".

Best of luck with that, chap.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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grr666
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 10 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
181kg without fuel Shocked

Same weight as my 850cc 100hp+ bike then. Shocked
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:40 - 02 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now the V-Strom 250.

tl;dr version - underpowered, overweight, paint is OK, "cheap". Clapping
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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bamt
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 02 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting way of reviewing it. A low capacity adventure bike, so they send a "sportsbike nut" who confesses to being a complete off-road virgin to report on it.

Surprisingly it turns out to to be underpowered for blasting down the motorway (who'd have thought a 250cc adv lump wouldn't ride as nicely as a ZX-6R at speed), though off-road in his words it "inspired enough confidence for me to stand up on the pegs (whatever that’s supposed to do)".

They might as well have sent my mum (who's never been on a bike) to do a review and talk about how pretty the paint is. It reminds me a little of a magazine group test of 4x4 cars back in the 80s (so reviewing s selection of the Japanese cars that were starting to get trendy and the Lada Niva). They went through the Brecon Beacons, with a support Land Rover or the Niva (the only one on test to get around without assistance) pulling the others out when they got stuck - but the Niva came last in test because it had vinyl seats and was noisy on the motorway.

I'm quite intrigued by the idea of a low capacity adv bike capable of doing a reasonable distance mixing on and off road. The CRF230 I played with earlier in the year was fun in the dirt but I wouldn't have wanted to go more than a few miles on road so saw the announcement of this and the Versys-X 300 with interest. Not sure the V-Strom 250 has got it right though, and I'd have trouble justifying it over a lightly used Wee-Strom 650 or XT6xx. Pretty expensive for a youngster too - and I'm not convinced that the Ewan and Thingy image is something many of them aspire to.
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Bikeless
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 02 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pocket rocket? Back in the day i had an RD 125 that produced probably slightly less power but at 98kg was substantially less heavy, pocket rockets are old 2 strokes and maybe the 400cc old sportsbikes not a lardy underpowered piece if jewellery.
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Musketeer
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 02 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why couldn't they just use gsxr125 frame with 250 engine?

I think KTM does that quite successfully with their RC 125, 250, 390 range.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 02 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always wanted Yamaha to put the WR250X engine into the YZF125R, as it's the same minimal extra weight concept, for twice the bhp. I think it would have been ok and not stressed the chassis too far either. The WR engine was expensive to make with its titanium valves, and while the 31bhp was ok, it would have likely been too expensive to produce.

They gave us a 40ish bhp R3 instead, but in a worse chassis and with far too much extra weight that 10bhp couldn't hope to make up for.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 03 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZ wrote:
Why couldn't they just use gsxr125 frame with 250 engine?

I think KTM does that quite successfully with their RC 125, 250, 390 range.

Can you get the 250 over here (not being pedantic just curious)? I know they brought the Duke 200 which struggled to sell (the 250cc apparently has 30 bhp (5 more than the 200)).
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Musketeer
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 03 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
JZ wrote:
Why couldn't they just use gsxr125 frame with 250 engine?

I think KTM does that quite successfully with their RC 125, 250, 390 range.

Can you get the 250 over here (not being pedantic just curious)? I know they brought the Duke 200 which struggled to sell (the 250cc apparently has 30 bhp (5 more than the 200)).


Hmm.. it seems they sell only RC125 and 390 here in the uk. I know RC 250 exists, I wonder why it's not available here :/
31HP, power to weight ratio 0.21 HP/kg... isn't it almost spot on ratio for A2?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:25 - 04 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the 390 was designed to be an A2 compliant? They probably looked at 250 sales and decided not to bother.
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Oldie
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PostPosted: 07:27 - 04 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:
It reminds me a little of a magazine group test of 4x4 cars back in the 80s


Another journalistic masterpiece is Practical Caravan's detailed review of the new Audi Q2 as a towing vehicle. Includes the wonderful line "I haven't had the chance to tow with the Q2"

https://www.practicalcaravan.com/blog/41553-new-audi-q2-driven#rwW5fSL32385jZTu.99
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:11 - 04 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

PMSL at a magazine called Practical Caravan Laughing
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Musketeer
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PostPosted: 08:29 - 04 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So he hasn't tested it properly yet giving review / advice / recommendation... wow Rolling Eyes
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Oldie
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PostPosted: 06:21 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

More GSX 250R MCN journalism to make you smile.

The guy complains that motorists assume that he's on a bigger bike and naturally pull to the side to let him pass, but he has to sit behind them for miles because the gaps they leave are too small for his 250! No mention of lack of overtaking power, but maybe his typewriter ribbon ran out?

I'm still not suggesting that it's a bad bike but I'd like to hear more about real world performance.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn-motorycles/2017/suzuki-gsx250r/kevin-schwantz-ride-silverstone/
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arry
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PostPosted: 06:37 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldie wrote:

The guy complains that motorists assume that he's on a bigger bike and naturally pull to the side to let him pass


Maybe they're doing that because he's tailgating like a spastic.
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Alex A
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PostPosted: 08:59 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Maybe they're doing that because he's tailgating like a spastic.


Probably just needs the slipstream.
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