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Avoiding morons overtaking into your path

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tactical_pancake
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 11:45 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Avoiding morons overtaking into your path Reply with quote

This summer I seem to have been dealing with a lot of incidents of car drivers overtaking into my path.

I.e. You are riding around a blind corner / hidden dip (or even a straight) to find you are facing a car racing towards you on collision-course in your lane, overtaking another vehicle, but without enough room to complete the overtake, so you have to take avoiding action. Rolling Eyes

This is one of my least favourite situations because in a head on collision you are likely to get deaded. My previous rideout to wales I had no less than 3 of these on one day, worst of which was a full on brake to edge of road with oncoming vehicle passing at NSL speed. Also had a memorable one on a clear straight road in france earlier this year with a pillion, and a blind woman try and take us out by deciding to pull out and overtake directly at us. Mad

Anyway yesterday's rideout, statistics finally caught up and I got run off the road... luckily a low speed version of the scenario, into a small ditch at 10mph or so as I'd scrubbed off most of the speed before 'ditching'.

Fortuitously my superb ninja skillz avoided any damage / injury, and all I was able to manage was a pathetic peep of my horn as the offender dissappeared into the distance. Here is paint diagram, (also note there was a car tailgating behind me hence slamming the anchors on wasn't a good option, I think the car behind did emergency stop into the side of road, I didn't see I was concentrating on not crashing). Instead of the red car slamming on the brakes and folding in behind the yellow, he audibly revved up to try to out-accelerate the yellow car, perhaps in panic. I didn't see the driver, maybe they were elderly or blind, or sending an important text. Sad

Obviously anyone doing this type of overtake is a complete moron (and I hope they meet a big pointy farm vehicle), but given that all road users are blind and trying to kill you, I try and ride defensively all the time .. however, I'm struggling with what options there are to avoid these situations. Question

Number one problem is being seen, to that end I've been wearing hi vis, bike is silver, maybe I should think about getting some more lights or colouring for the bike? Flashing lights, LED saying 'HELLO' or something.

Next is slowing down.. but I'm already pretty much the slowest cornering bike on the road. The resulting tailgater didn't help, but I normally just let them past at the first opportunity. But then again slowing down doesn't help when overtakers just don't see you.

Surely it's not just me that sees this kind of driving, what do the rest of you do, particularly those that ride the twisties 3x as fast as me? Is there any solution to this? I must admit it's been making me think that in the long term staying off these types of road is the only way to stay alive, other than give up biking... Neutral
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Avoiding morons overtaking into your path Reply with quote

tactical_pancake wrote:
in the long term staying off these types of road is the only way to stay alive

Might be. They are far more dangerous than motorways, because of exactly this kind of mongery.

I run auxiliary LEDs on the Nazi Tractor, two point spots down on the crash bars and strips on the mirrors and stalks. That plus it being biggish and yellow and usually wearing bright clothes and a white lid does... well, who knows? Anyone who claims that they can adduce a statistically significant difference in other road users' behaviour based on variations on the same bike and clothing is only kidding themselves.

SMIDSY weaving is about the only active technique I can think of, but it's likely to be too late to use it proactively by the time car-cretin commits to the overtake.

Tailgaters can die in a fire, then be resurrected and die again. I'd strongly encourage getting them past you by any means necessary, up to and including pulling over or just coming to a stop in the road if they're determined to sit on your rear wheel without overtaking.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I use caution on blind bends. At the end of the day you're not on a track day where a) you can see everything ahead b) nothing is coming the other way and c) if you balls up a corner you'll end up sliding with hitting anything crunchy.

tldr; knee down into a blind bend is gambling against the odds.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Road positioning, your paint diagram suggests you were hugging the verge when if more toward the centre you'd see them a second sooner and vice versa.
Also if you went faster you would have been round that bend before they got there Thumbs Up
Only partly joking as that's also part of proceeding in a more assertive manner.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unpopular opinion time; it's mainly other bikers I see doing the dodgy overtakes. Are you wearing your invisibility cloak when out on the bike? Smile
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
Road positioning, your paint diagram suggests you were hugging the verge when if more toward the centre you'd see them a second sooner and vice versa.


Road positioning isn't the problem. Only an utter moron would attempt the overtake in that picture.
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tactical_pancake
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
Road positioning, your paint diagram suggests you were hugging the verge when if more toward the centre you'd see them a second sooner and vice versa.

Actually road positioning is something I probably could experiment with, but I don't think it's a magic bullet, lots of trade offs. It's also occurred to me that much as I treasure my hearing, maybe I should consider replacing the stock exhaust with something more anti-social. Idea My 250 is louder than my big bike.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
Only an utter moron would attempt the overtake in that picture.

Unfortunately that's what 95% of driving/riding's about, avoiding said morons Sad

tactical_pancake wrote:
It's also occurred to me that much as I treasure my hearing, maybe I should consider replacing the stock exhaust with something more anti-social. Idea My 250 is louder than my big bike.

I am a fan of louder pipes, I think they help with general awareness (as in other motorists acknowledging your existence). I'm not sure if it would make a difference, people tend to commit to bad overtakes regardless.
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Position for vision.

And if that errs you out of your comfort zone,

Sacrifice speed for safety

In country lanes, to avoid potato, always be able to stop on the tarmac you can see (ie the limit point).

In a single track road, be able to stop in half the distance you can see.

With a bit of practice correct position will get your average speed up, you will probably find it slower at first whilst you fine tune things. Don't know if you do already, but when I'm rage mode use the maximum rev range before changing up to make most use of engine regarding and optimum acceleration. (Ie rag the shit out of it)
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Road position to one side for a second....

Post position is the most glaring mustake here. Pop this bad boy in the Spill counter and your one step closer to, well, nothing, but pop it there anyway Smile

Hows the bike? Thumbs Up
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Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 05 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

TaffyTDM wrote:
In country lanes, to avoid potato, always be able to stop on the tarmac you can see (ie the limit point).

Doesn't save you when Daryyyl appears on your side on the road doing 70 towards you.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 07:53 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
doggone wrote:
Road positioning, your paint diagram suggests you were hugging the verge when if more toward the centre you'd see them a second sooner and vice versa.


Road positioning isn't the problem. Only an utter moron would attempt the overtake in that picture.

If bike was visible because not behind the hedge they wouldn't have?
But there are lots of impatient morons and some bikers are main offenders. Smile
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tactical_pancake
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PostPosted: 08:02 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracer1234 wrote:
Road position to one side for a second....

Post position is the most glaring mustake here. Pop this bad boy in the Spill counter and your one step closer to, well, nothing, but pop it there anyway Smile

Hows the bike? Thumbs Up

It's not a spill if you don't spill. Me and bike absolutely fine, I managed to keep it upright, my record is still unblemished. Going offroad to avoid collision isn't 'insta-crash', it's an opportunity to practice valuable motocross skillz. Laughing
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 09:37 - 06 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Avoiding morons overtaking into your path Reply with quote

tactical_pancake wrote:


Anyway yesterday's rideout, statistics finally caught up and I got run off the road... luckily a low speed version of the scenario, into a small ditch at 10mph or so as I'd scrubbed off most of the speed before 'ditching'.


Fair enough, I misunderstood the Ditching bit. Fair play for keeping it upright.
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Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 for the loud exhaust. Helps when filtering past long traffic queues as well, you'd actually be surprised how many people move to the side to let you past when you know for a fact if they hadn't heard you they wouldn't! (mirrors are always unused). I've seen cars miles ahead of me at a side junction slam on cos they think im screaming down the road to them when in reality im only doing 30/40 , so I know the sound works.

Now for another unpopular opinion - its cars like the yellow car that cause these accidents. Personally I would never ever overtake before a blind bend, but I can understand why some people get frustrated stuck behind Doris on her Sunday drive (why old people choose weekends to do their errands is beyond me). NSL means 60/70, 50 at worst (obviously slower round corners), and if you cant drive competently down them then you shouldn't be on them?

Just my two cents
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
Now for another unpopular opinion - its cars like the yellow car that cause these accidents.


Are you trolling?
You are equating the mild inconvenience of having to drive slower (less than 50mph!) with the ridiculously reckless act of over taking on a country lane around a blind corner?

I'm sorry but that has to be trolling material. As if the chance of a head on with farm machinery (you won't be winning that) is even remotely worth it let alone the disgusting attitude that other peoples lives (oncoming traffic) are worth less than satisfying your impatience.

There's no 'I can under stand why...' in this. These people do not appreciate the value of life or danger they pose to others and should get banned for a reasonable amount of time the first time they are caught!

[/triggered]
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:
AshWebster wrote:
Now for another unpopular opinion - its cars like the yellow car that cause these accidents.


Are you trolling?
You are equating the mild inconvenience of having to drive slower (less than 50mph!) with the ridiculously reckless act of over taking on a country lane around a blind corner?

I'm sorry but that has to be trolling material. As if the chance of a head on with farm machinery (you won't be winning that) is even remotely worth it let alone the disgusting attitude that other peoples lives (oncoming traffic) are worth less than satisfying your impatience.

There's no 'I can under stand why...' in this. These people do not appreciate the value of life or danger they pose to others and should get banned for a reasonable amount of time the first time they are caught!

[/triggered]

I agree with Ash', it's why people driving at 20 mph on main roads grinds my gears. What's safer, everyone driving at 30ish or cars overtaking each other?
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:

[/triggered]


I'm not trying to start an argument - but can't you fail driving tests for failing to make adequate progress, I guess the main reason for this being .... this?
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

I agree with Ash', it's why people driving at 20 mph on main roads grinds my gears. What's safer, everyone driving at 30ish or cars overtaking each other?


Driving slowly = inconvenience.

Overtake on blind corners can = Insta-death for you and other people?

Driving cars is a dangerous but necessary part of life and there will always be frustrations, old people going slow, cars in engine management mode going slow, people following directions etc going slow.

It's no justification to say that MADE you overtake dangerously? You are driving, your manovers, your choice.

Anyone proclaiming that satisfying their impatience is more important than other people getting killed (and lets be frank, that's exactly the odds they are playing with) then they have no place on the road what so ever...

Yes it's anoying. I was stuck behind some prick in a camper van for 30 minutes going across wales last weekend who did not think to pull in to let the 10 cars behind his slow ass go past. Funnily enough though, no one died and it added 5-6 minutes to our overall journey time but shit happens.

Should I have tried a risky overtake and blamed him if I got myself and everyone in my car killed?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
skatefreak wrote:

[/triggered]


I'm not trying to start an argument - but can't you fail driving tests for failing to make adequate progress, I guess the main reason for this being .... this?

I again agree with Ash' Smile Drive 40 mph on your test down NSL country roads and see if you pass.


Last edited by M.C on 14:39 - 07 Aug 2017; edited 1 time in total
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
skatefreak wrote:

[/triggered]


I'm not trying to start an argument - but can't you fail driving tests for failing to make adequate progress, I guess the main reason for this being .... this?


Right, now ya'll just trolling me.... Clapping

Going to fail a whole lot harder over taking on blind corners *sighs*
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
AshWebster wrote:


I'm not trying to start an argument - but can't you fail driving tests for failing to make adequate progress, I guess the main reason for this being .... this?

I again agree with Ash' Smile Drive 40 mph on your test down NSL country roads and see if you pass.


Overtake on a blind corner and see if you pass you test Rolling Eyes
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P.
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Head on is the only way, you'll get decent moneys and a new bike, he'll get in trouble, phone records will show they used it before hand, you'll ruin their life, you may die...but if not you get a banging house and car.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:
M.C wrote:

I again agree with Ash' Smile Drive 40 mph on your test down NSL country roads and see if you pass.


Overtake on a blind corner and see if you pass you test Rolling Eyes

Doesn't that suggest they're both hazards? But wait if people drove at an appropriate speed for the road wouldn't we negate the overtaking hazard?
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 07 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
skatefreak wrote:


Overtake on a blind corner and see if you pass you test Rolling Eyes

Doesn't that suggest they're both hazards? But wait if people drove at an appropriate speed for the road wouldn't we negate the overtaking hazard?


Christ alive, Driving slow is Not hazardous Tut Tut.

If someone else decides to initiate dangerous maovers because they are too important to be 'goin slow'... well then that asshole is the hazard because they have a choice to over take or not?

Not everyone drives slow to be an asshole (engine managment/directions yadda yadda), it's a part of life, people need to just accept it.
No one behind a slow car is being forced to dangerously overtake Thumbs Up

Why am I so easily baited Rolling Eyes

it's been fun. I'm done Thumbs Up
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