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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 14 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand people buying on 0 or low% finance deals if they can't afford a bike straight up. In fact even if you have the cash a 0% deal can work.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 08:39 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
AshWebster wrote:
when will you luddites see PCP is the future!

especially without mileage restrictions (go talk to your local dealer and they will 'advise' you about how to get around them)


Explain to me why it is the future. Really, I cannot see why.

I can just about understand a car that is used by the wife for shopping and school run but thats about it.

I like tinkering with my bikes. Even my Trophy is not bog standard.

Add in the worry about condition and milage means I really cannot get my head round PCP.

#Yes, I'm probably a luddite.


it was kind of tongue i cheek but it was also a little serious.

It all depends on the people at your local place. They explained to me how there is 3 options when u get to the end of ur pcp (2 years)

1. Give the bike back to finance (who own the bike) and pay whatever mileage/damage you owe
2. Sell it back to the dealer for a nominal fee (whatever finance is +£100 happy handshake)
3. Buy out the rest of your contract and you own the bike

So really when u think about it option 1 is never an option. He explained they would rather have a bike ready to sell in the showroom than give it back to the finance. They would always pay the difference +£100 or so bonus to you. Win Win situation (Obviously if you do 40,000km or trash alll the fairings it might be a different story)

Now add in the fact you pretty much never have to MoT, free servicing, brand new bike every 1-2 years (or more frequent if you get bored) all for £100 a month.. I mean ill probably go fro my 600RR to a brand new blade in another year, then after another 2 years, guess what, ill go get a brand new bike again!

I know its not for everyone, but im just explaining why its a growing market and a useful tool if understood.

Hope that helps
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Ste
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PostPosted: 09:10 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
It all depends on the people at your local place. They explained to me how there is 3 options when u get to the end of ur pcp (2 years)

1. Give the bike back to finance (who own the bike) and pay whatever mileage/damage you owe
2. Sell it back to the dealer for a nominal fee (whatever finance is +£100 happy handshake)
3. Buy out the rest of your contract and you own the bike

How do any of those get around the mileage limit? Laughing
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
AshWebster wrote:
It all depends on the people at your local place. They explained to me how there is 3 options when u get to the end of ur pcp (2 years)

1. Give the bike back to finance (who own the bike) and pay whatever mileage/damage you owe
2. Sell it back to the dealer for a nominal fee (whatever finance is +£100 happy handshake)
3. Buy out the rest of your contract and you own the bike

How do any of those get around the mileage limit? Laughing


please actually read the rest of my post Smile
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
It all depends on the people at your local place. [...] He explained they would rather have a bike ready to sell in the showroom than give it back to the finance. They would always pay the difference +£100 or so bonus to you.

Given how teeth-sucky dealers get when you bring in a bike that's got 5 digits on the odometer, I'd want that verbal guarantee in writing.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
please actually read the rest of my post Smile

Oh, I thought you had something other than the idea that the dealer might pay the £100 difference. Laughing

They really don't want bikes returned PCP bikes ready to sell in the showroom, they've already got loads of those. Laughing
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
AshWebster wrote:
It all depends on the people at your local place. [...] He explained they would rather have a bike ready to sell in the showroom than give it back to the finance. They would always pay the difference +£100 or so bonus to you.

Given how teeth-sucky dealers get when you bring in a bike that's got 5 digits on the odometer, I'd want that verbal guarantee in writing.


i guess the difference between us two is im a fair weather s+d+p rider and probably wont get to 10k miles in the 2 years, whereas you commute on it?

if i was getting a commuter bike i probably wouldnt pcp it , yes.

@Ste i can only go off what they told me, they make money marking up a second hand bike, i get £100 in my pocket and the finance is settled..

and i have a friend who works there in sales too so they're not gonna rip me off.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

He might not be ripping you off but he's certainly being selective with the truth.

They make fuck all on second hand vehicles compared to new ones on PCP finance. That's there they make their commision.
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://s20.postimg.org/ndup2f971/Screenshot_2017-09-15_at_11.09.52.png Multiplied by ten.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
and i have a friend who works there in sales too so they're not gonna rip me off.

https://i.imgur.com/BlMPuCc.jpg

To be fair, if you bring in a pristine low mileage bike, they might want it.

To be fairer, that's exactly the opposite of the problem-with-PCP situation that we were discussing.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me the costs can rack up rather quickly especially if you drop it

1 Gap insurance - obviously needed.
2. Fully comp - Obviously.

Drop bike - to get back to pristine you have to go the insurance route even for minor damage and done by main dealer or you will be paying through the nose come closure time whereas if it was your bike you could put up with scratched fairings and save your NCB.

Normal wear and tear - Stone chips, small scratches on tank from zip, that sort of thing. Where is the line drawn? My bike is a garage queen but I could still look round it and find loads of blemishes.

Servicing - Got to be done by main dealer?

My point is, luddite that I am Laughing I cannot see an advantage with PCP where you have to pay a big lump sum start and finish (OK cheap repayments in the middle) over a £99 down, 0 or low % APR repayment or bank personal loan. Then you own the bike and have the personal freedom to do what you want with it and in 3 or so years, if you keep it nice, you will get the same sort of trade in value anyway.
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Rogue_Shadow
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
In fact even if you have the cash a 0% deal can work.


Maybe PCP deals only appeals to those with no future planning capabilities and wold never be able to afford the bike in the first place Rolling Eyes

Anyone with any sense, would just save up a decent sum to fund the bike and then pay the rest off using a 0% purchase credit card, provided incoming was guaranteed.
Most are 30/32 month giving you over 2 years to pay off the debt.
If you do fuck up and cannot clear it during that time, balance transfer card to buy yourself more time.
When your done, the bike is yours!

Bottom line is, if you cant afford it, come back when you can.
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have gap insurance right?

Do you not get a nervous feeling every time you ride it knowing that its not yours, and any and every nic and scratch could cost you a fortune?

When you pull up at a bike meet, or with friends, do you have a sense of pride in your vehicle, or do you know, in the back on your mind, what you are showing off, is not yours?
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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 18 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few years from now when PPI lawyers run out of people to pester I can see them phoning us all up trying to get themselves some coin by pushing claims for mis-selling of PCP.

No matter how many arguments I hear in favour of PCP, it all boils down to making it even easier for people that can least afford it to spend even more money that they don't have. Does this not sound scarily familiar? Nobody likes to be called a fool but there are millions of them spending trillions that they don't have. I thought governments and banks were going to sort out levels of personal debt after the last financial meltdown? Obviously they lied like they always do.

How anyone can ever see PCP as anything other than a great big rip-off is way beyond my comprehension.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

its like a payday loan. if you cant afford it then you will get shafted.

i have a decent job , and i know i am getting x money in each month.

so say i wanted to buy a new blade. what are they like £10k?

a £10k loan plus interest over 3 years would work out at around £300 a month.

at the end of those 3 years the bike would be worth ... £5-6k?

Granted you do own the bike.

now i pay £100 a month.

Thats 1/3 of what i would have to pay to buy it myself. and i can just change it whenever i want.

Pros and cons. each to their own. I'm not blindly trying to justify it or sell it to anyone else im just explaining why it works for me, and im perfectly happy with it.
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Going
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 01:41 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enduro Numpty wrote:
I thought governments and banks were going to sort out levels of personal debt after the last financial meltdown?


Isn't that how they make there money, by buying and selling peoples debts. No, I don't know how it works either.
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
its like a payday loan. if you cant afford it then you will get shafted.

i have a decent job , and i know i am getting x money in each month.

so say i wanted to buy a new blade. what are they like £10k?

a £10k loan plus interest over 3 years would work out at around £300 a month.

at the end of those 3 years the bike would be worth ... £5-6k?

Granted you do own the bike.

now i pay £100 a month.

Thats 1/3 of what i would have to pay to buy it myself. and i can just change it whenever i want.

Pros and cons. each to their own. I'm not blindly trying to justify it or sell it to anyone else im just explaining why it works for me, and im perfectly happy with it.


It's nothing like getting a payday loan.

You need to look at your sums. You're utterly wrong on them.

New blade £12.8k which is £119 a month which is after you've paid a deposit of £3.4k. Guaranteed future value £6k which means in total you've paid over £14k for the bike if you were to keep it, or over £8k for a bike you hand back and have to start all over again.

Your maximum allowance over 3 years hire is 12,000 miles. Work that out in pence per mile and tell me that's a good deal.

Not trying to show off, but I'm pretty certain my financial position is such that my expendable income will exceed yours by some way. Even then, I'd not bite at that PCP deal. You'd have to be stark racing bloody mad IMO.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long term car/bike hire by another name.
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Loui5D
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get a loan from a bank & buy outright, the interest rate from a bank will be much better than some pcp gubbins.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Long term car/bike hire by another name.


Exactly. But packaged up to think they are doing you a favour somehow.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

Exactly. But packaged up to think they are doing you a favour somehow.

And create the illusion of ownership.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Polarbear wrote:

Exactly. But packaged up to think they are doing you a favour somehow.

And create the illusion of ownership.

Which leads to folk cheerfully checking the "Yes, I am the registered keeper and owner" on insurance declarations, when they're no such thing.
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
its like a payday loan. if you cant afford it then you will get shafted.

i have a decent job , and i know i am getting x money in each month.

so say i wanted to buy a new blade. what are they like £10k?

a £10k loan plus interest over 3 years would work out at around £300 a month.

at the end of those 3 years the bike would be worth ... £5-6k?

Granted you do own the bike.

now i pay £100 a month.

Thats 1/3 of what i would have to pay to buy it myself. and i can just change it whenever i want.

Pros and cons. each to their own. I'm not blindly trying to justify it or sell it to anyone else im just explaining why it works for me, and im perfectly happy with it.


Brick Wall
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Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
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