Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Detailed bike chain comparison test

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:36 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Bennetts, of course.

They're not disinterested parties. They've very interested, actually: they don't want to be paying out for stolen bikes.

Disappointingly, they didn't test Pragmasis, but they did test Almax.

tl;dr summary, unsuprisingly:

Almax Immobiliser Series V & Squire SS80CS

What was slightly unexpected was that the best angle grinder performance came from Squire 16mm and 19mm chains, not Almax.

They rate the Oxfraud Monster XL well because of its resistance to cropping and sledgehammer attacks, but the angle grinder went through it in just 17 seconds, so you'd better hope your thief is planning to do it the hard, bulky, old fashioned way.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

TheArchitect
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:53 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Pragmasis generally considered to be more robust against angle grinders then?

I have the 19mm with a Squire lock, can't remember which one.
____________________
GSXR 600 K6 - Stolen
GSXR 600 K6 - Stolen
MT09 - Almost stolen
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

AshWebster
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 05 Jan 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:49 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure someone laughed when I said I had an Oxford Hardcore XL? or am I missing something here
____________________
Honda cg125 J reg peice of shit ---> CB650F ---> 2016 CBR600RR
Ford KA ---> 93' MR2 ---> 94'MR2 ---> 98' Subaru WRX STI Ver 3 (track car)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

asta1
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 03 Dec 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:11 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
I'm sure someone laughed when I said I had an Oxford Hardcore XL? or am I missing something here


Well lets be fair, that name sounds like an '80's pornstar with a handlebar moustache.

What's the marketing blurb? 'Oxfords new Hardcore XL, now with added testosterone. Be harder than iron, whatever you're riding, or your money back...'
____________________
CBT Acquired: 09/07/2015
A2 Licence Passed: 12/02/16
Current Bike: Yamaha MT-07 bought 02/07/16
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

pepperami
Super Spammer



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:18 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this the tip of the iceberg?
Will bike insurers start refusing to insure unless you have one of their approved security items.
____________________
I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:36 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
Will bike insurers start refusing to insure unless you have one of their approved security items.

The take-away point is that none of the chains lasted even 50 seconds against an angle grinder, and that all security does is to move the problem along to the next bike in line.

Actually, it's a good one to cite when the Met and Khaaaaaan victim-blame owners.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stevo as b4
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:51 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really not sure what you were expecting though?

A cordless small 4.5'' angle grinder with a 1-1.2mm thick disc is an excellent tool for cutting such things.

I expect that this was done just using an ordinary silicon carbide disc suitable for cutting most materials except hard stone. You can also use some diamond discs for cutting steel with and I'd expect they'd cut even faster.

Last point if you didn't mind the noise and didn't have to carry it far, a big 300mm petrol disc cutter would probably take no time at all, if not exactly stealthy.

I regard nearly 40-50seconds of resistance to be excellent against a cutting disc on a typical angle grinder. I don't think you could realistically expect a portable motorcycle security chain to do better IMO.

Best security is keeping the bike off the street, in security controlled compounds or buildings, or in a secure underground car park.

You could say that the 1000's of London commuters that lock bikes to nothing much than themselves or each other, on busy London or other city streets are the Mugs here.

I ain't popular opinion, but I wouldn't have a bike for work if on street parking was the only option I had. I got slated for suggesting companies should provide more secure parking, but I don't know London or how unfeasible this is?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

owl
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Oct 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:31 - 15 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thing they provide ground anchors

https://i.imgur.com/UhIAWPc.jpg
____________________
Observation is the greatest source of wisdom.


Last edited by owl on 08:44 - 16 Aug 2017; edited 2 times in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

arry
Super Spammer



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:28 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:

I regard nearly 40-50seconds of resistance to be excellent against a cutting disc on a typical angle grinder. I don't think you could realistically expect a portable motorcycle security chain to do better IMO.


I don't see anyone saying that it should do better - just stating the fact that whatever you do, it's gone in a minute. Sort of points to something needing to be done, doesn't it? You know, like enforcement of law?

Quote:
You could say that the 1000's of London commuters that lock bikes to nothing much than themselves or each other, on busy London or other city streets are the Mugs here.

I ain't popular opinion,


You're right on the not popular opinion bit.

Motorcycling is legal and a valid form of transport which should be encouraged. To call those that choose to get to work in this way the mugs is to in effect say that the criminals are the smart ones and the victim is somehow at fault for wanting to use a motorcycle, legally, to get to work.

I get the fact you'd be silly to put a nice bike in a poor area with minimal security but what we're saying here is that even the best security is undone in a minute. That doesn't make an owner a mug, or irresponsible, it just makes the enforcement against offenders ever more necessary.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

TheArchitect
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:49 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
companies should provide more secure parking, but I don't know London or how unfeasible this is?


No chance of this ever happening. Real estate is at such a premium that no sane minded landlord will give away prime commercial indoor space to park bikes. Most commercial buildings in the city have allocated parking bays for each tenant company, usually one or two bays at most for deliveries or client visits.
On the rare occasions if you get chummy with the security, I've heard people sneaking bikes into the loading bays and tucking them away in the corner somewhere.

That said, all Corporation of London owned car parks are free for bikes. Not super secure - i know this as my last bike got stolen from one of them.
____________________
GSXR 600 K6 - Stolen
GSXR 600 K6 - Stolen
MT09 - Almost stolen
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:57 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Really not sure what you were expecting though?

I was expecting pretty much that, based on the thefts that we know are happening every day in That London and elsewhere. Some of the angle grinder times are shockingly short though.

The significance is that when we're told that we're asking for it by leaving our bikes out there all unsecured and irresistable to red blooded pikeys, we can point at that and say "Gone in 60 seconds no matter what we do. Target the criminals, not the victims."
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

pepperami
Super Spammer



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:08 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Target the criminals, not the victims."

This ^ a thousand times this.
____________________
I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

pepperami
Super Spammer



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:15 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
stevo as b4 wrote:


something needing to be done, doesn't it? You know, like enforcement of law?


it just makes the enforcement against offenders ever more necessary.


All three of us agree on something Thumbs Up
We'll all be reading the Daily Mail next Wink
____________________
I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

owl
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Oct 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:18 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Target the criminals, not the victims."


but, but she was wearing a short skirt, that means she was asking for it? right?
____________________
Observation is the greatest source of wisdom.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

el_oso
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 May 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:53 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

What was slightly unexpected was that the best angle grinder performance came from Squire 16mm and 19mm chains, not Almax.

They rate the Oxfraud Monster XL well because of its resistance to cropping and sledgehammer attacks, but the angle grinder went through it in just 17 seconds, so you'd better hope your thief is planning to do it the hard, bulky, old fashioned way.


Not sure the angle grinder is a necessary test and how relevant this metric is when deciding on a chain.

I wonder how many tooled up thieves have got out their battery angle grinder and after 30 seconds given up because they had to flip the link over and cut the other side?
____________________
Duke 390
Previous: '05 XR125L | '96 XJ600S Diversion |'05 Suzuki GSXR1000 | '05 Honda CBR125-R | '97 YZF 600R Thundercat | '11 Honda CBR250
Car: Jeep Wrangler 4.0L
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:41 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

el_oso wrote:
Not sure the angle grinder is a necessary test and how relevant this metric is when deciding on a chain.

Given the number of thefts carried out using angle grinders now, I'd say pretty relevant.


el_oso wrote:
I wonder how many tooled up thieves have got out their battery angle grinder and after 30 seconds given up because they had to flip the link over and cut the other side?

In the past, some. In the future, fewer.

There was a chap recently had his Ducati nicked by a swarm of vermin that removed his disk lock by cutting through the disk (twice), while threatening the owner. Fu​cks given, zero.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

TheArchitect
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:51 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
removed his disk lock by cutting through the disk


Method used on my GSXR not too long ago. Cut a perfect wedge out of the disk and slid the lock out intact.
____________________
GSXR 600 K6 - Stolen
GSXR 600 K6 - Stolen
MT09 - Almost stolen
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

el_oso
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 May 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:17 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Given the number of thefts carried out using angle grinders now, I'd say pretty relevant.


The only value that you can take away from this though is that 100% of the time an angle grinder has been able to remove the chain and a thief would have been able to take your motorcycle. All that money spent on an expensive chain to protect your bike is useless, might as well have spent less on a chain that also couldn't be cropped or anvilled to death if you get my point.

I know this is not part of the article, but I would like to know if there have been instances where a high quality chain that takes a longer time to cut through does actually decrease the risk of your bike getting taken. Otherwise the Oxford is as good as the Almax.
____________________
Duke 390
Previous: '05 XR125L | '96 XJ600S Diversion |'05 Suzuki GSXR1000 | '05 Honda CBR125-R | '97 YZF 600R Thundercat | '11 Honda CBR250
Car: Jeep Wrangler 4.0L
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:44 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point. They do say that right up front, and that good security is just moving the problem to the next bike along.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

el_oso
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 May 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:00 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah, wasn't able to catch the videos, due to lack of available internet access at work.

Not sure if this was mentioned in the videos, but with the pragmasis, almax and one of the squires (at least) you can pass links through other links and shorten the chain. Enabling you to take the chain off the floor decreasing the number of attacks that can be used effectively.

As for 'companies should be providing more secure parking for bikes', I would have to disagree (in part). Motorcycles are relatively lucky in that, most places in the UK, you don't pay for parking. Cars however do. Granted they take up less space, but they still take up space, which runs at quite a premium in London. For that reason I would amend that statement to 'I wish companies provided secure motorcycle parking for a fee'. 19mm chains permanently affixed to a post where you hire a lock for a day would be something that I would be willing to pay for. They used to have some in Leicester, which I used all the time. I believe they have since been removed.
____________________
Duke 390
Previous: '05 XR125L | '96 XJ600S Diversion |'05 Suzuki GSXR1000 | '05 Honda CBR125-R | '97 YZF 600R Thundercat | '11 Honda CBR250
Car: Jeep Wrangler 4.0L
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stevo as b4
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:54 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

At Arry, Borg, Architect, peppers etc etc.

Great points, very well made. Can I permissibly be allowed to say that full on kill kill rage against the victim might have been a fractionally overkill response from my well balanced supportive self? Laughing

Point remains, that yes cut through chain times are short. Id suggest though that resigning yourself to its gone in 60sec anyway is still not a great view point either.

Ok so London is built on top of itself and fight to the death for a square metre of free land, and then only after dissuading sum of money. And I do get that bikes are 1% of traffic, and companies don't give a shit, and are not forced to even consider it.

But some companies (probably out of the capital) do kind of care and try to help staff to work more easily, either by working at home or local sub branches, or providing help with transport, or just free and secure parking and places to store cycles securely under cover and dry. To ask them to consider a few spaces with a lockable railing, or gated fenced off compound, or shed for motorbikes isn't that much more effort/cost or hassle for them.

My employer has 100's of sites across the UK, and many manned depots, some with security gate entry and secure perimeter fencing. Most of these sites would at least have somewhere on site for a few bikes to chain up to a solid railing or fence. Some sites have shared cycle/motorcycle parking and even under cover canopies or designated motorbike sheds etc. I was just under the impression that the easier you make it for your staff to get to work as painlessly and cheaply as possible, with the offer of safe parking, the more people that will turn up, be on time, be grateful, and feel more valued too?

The victim is never at fault for a bike theft, but my point was more that care free, don't try too hard on street parking, with a chain thrown through the wheel, isn't really helping or a serious enough attitude to take towards bike security. You can't say, '' I left my bike locked to nothing but itself on a busy city Street, but the police should break skulls to find it for me when it gets nicked''

Would these bike owners leave an expensive, rare, desirable car badly parked in a dodgy area or with no locking wheel nuts, and the window slightly down too?

Oh yeah, and my daughter would not be even thinking about leaving the house if she was wearing a tiny miniskirt. Get changed or stay in I think would be the choice allowed. Laughing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:16 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


There was a chap recently had his Ducati nicked by a swarm of vermin that removed his disk lock by cutting through the disk (twice), while threatening the owner. Fu​cks given, zero.


Which shows how
1: relatively pointless spending a fortune on security is.
2: how ineffectual courts and police are as a deterrent.
2: how necessary it is to carry one of these as part of your toolkit. Whistle

https://www.sabrered.com/stun-guns-personal-security
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Wheezybiker
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:34 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good. Article
Let's hope the info starts getting out there to manufacturers
I have an Oxford chain and a disc lock
Soon to be replaced with an almax 3 or 4 I hasten to add

Haven't had any problems at work or home yet though I have only been riding it since 22 July

Why is the Oxford so poor yet so widely sold if you listen to their blurb

I park at work with 6-8 motorbikes in a shared rack with a large rail to anchor to and out of the bikes parked there only one chain isn't an Oxford
I lock my bike at home with 3 different locks through 2 ground anchors so hopefully my security will get the scum to move on to a different bike

Off topic slightly

I saw on you tube an infra red doorbell that alerts you if anyone moves on your drive
Has any one on the forum used on with any success
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

stevo as b4
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:44 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another valid school of thought though.

If your bike is a mint condition Ducati Panigale, but the three you park next to at work are scruffy old GS500's, why not spend the extra time, and hassle tackling the much better security on your bike instead?

If I were the thief that's what I'd want to do. Minimum number of bikes nicked for the maximum pay out. If I had to go in heavily tooled for a £15k bike, it's probably worth more than nicking 10 scabby £1500 shitters in comparison.

Not having anything nice or that stands out might be a better safety policy maybe?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

M.C
Super Spammer



Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:51 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

el_oso wrote:
I know this is not part of the article, but I would like to know if there have been instances where a high quality chain that takes a longer time to cut through does actually decrease the risk of your bike getting taken. Otherwise the Oxford is as good as the Almax.

There's also the assumption you've got a competent thief. A friends bike was saved cos they couldn't snap the steering lock (yes really). I've seen/heard of other retarded criminal failures.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 226 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.14 Sec - Server Load: 0.57 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 143.11 Kb