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Detailed bike chain comparison test

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owl
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

2: how necessary it is to carry one of these as part of your toolkit. Whistle

https://www.sabrered.com/stun-guns-personal-security


May as well just carry a gun though right? Same sentence?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

vice wrote:
May as well just carry a gun though right? Same sentence?

Same charge (ho ho), but I'd be surprised if you got the same time for it (or the same community service if you're Disadvantaged).
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 21:54 - 16 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

And after reading this thread, I go back to my default position : terrible terrible terrible prolonged life changing violence to anyone trying to steal my bike.
If they nick it while I`m out of sight/away, then terrible terrible violence to the local scrotes just to make me feel better.
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
There's also the assumption you've got a competent thief. A friends bike was saved cos they couldn't snap the steering lock (yes really). I've seen/heard of other retarded criminal failures.


I'm not sure I understand. Surely a retarded bike thief (yet one that comes prepared with an angle grinder Thinking ) would also struggle with the oxford. The saving grace however in this instance is that the almax/pragmasis looks more difficult and might just leave it alone.

Yeah there are retarded bike thieves out there, a retarded one tried to steal mine. They broke the steering lock, wheeled it to a nearby alleyway and then couldn't get it started because they blew a fuse after they let the wires touch the metal frame. Doh!
Took me all of 30 seconds to get it started after recovering it from the police impound.
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did anyone else notice this bit, from the Oxford Hardcose XL review

Quote:
Using the 115mm mains-powered angle-grinder, we were able to cut through the chain in 14 seconds.


Mains powered angle grinder, how is that a good test???

Also, looking at the angle grinder times, compared to cost and size/weight, it looks like the best option is to use multiple lighter/cheaper chains that buy an Almax

Baklaf bike scum sees 2 or 3 chains, moves to next bike with only 1
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I got home I did go through some of the vids. They explained that they used a main powered grinder to reduce the likelihood of systematic errors in the measurement process from batteries of varying levels of charge.

I wouldn't expect a battery powered angle grinder to take more than double the amount of time compared to a main powered one, meaning that it's still a short enough amount of time to be unlikely to make any difference. You can be almost certain, that a bike thief that has enough of a brain to bring an angle grinder (with charge) will be off with your bike in under two minutes.

The vid also mention that 70% (iirc) of bikes that are taken, are taken without any security. So even the cheapest of security devices greatly reduces your risk, but does pass it onto someone else.

I have the opinion that multiple types of security are better than a single good one. I have no data to back this up. I use a chain and a disc lock. Means that the thief has to use two types of attack. He'd have to cut the chain and the disc lock, or cut the chain and lift the bike.
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owl
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpsmith79 wrote:


Baklaf bike scum sees 2 or 3 chains, moves to next bike with only 1


if they want the bike they'll just bring 2-3 grinders
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

vice wrote:
if they want the bike they'll just bring 2-3 grinders


True. In London though, there is no shortage of supply, so unless it's a particularly rare or sought after model I'd hedge my bets on them moving to an easier target.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

el_oso wrote:
I'm not sure I understand. Surely a retarded bike thief (yet one that comes prepared with an angle grinder Thinking ) would also struggle with the oxford. The saving grace however in this instance is that the almax/pragmasis looks more difficult and might just leave it alone.

I see it as you only need to take one more step than the thief to save your bike. That might be putting the steering lock on (a lot of people don't bother), or having a better chain that they struggle getting through.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpsmith79 wrote:
Did anyone else notice this bit, from the Oxford Hardcose XL review

Quote:
Using the 115mm mains-powered angle-grinder, we were able to cut through the chain in 14 seconds.

Yes, I noticed it. I also read the rest of the article. I'd recommend it.
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jnw010
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Not having anything nice or that stands out might be a better safety policy maybe?


Again it's just moving the problem along to the next bike. If, as in your example, the bay has 10 crappy GS500's what are you riding that's crappier?
I'd rather we could just remove criminals entirely.....
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I noticed some slight dents on my Almax IV I use at home - matching linear dents on opposite sites of the link - evidence of a failed attempt at cropping. Not sure when the attempt was, but it was sufficient to stop the attack, and they didn't return with better tools.

Of course now I've had the old garage door replaced and I'm parking my Brutale inside. Scooters still live outside for convenience. Next up is replacing the fencing, with a decent lock on the gate, and a paved area inside.

You can't have nice things in London unless you can afford to protect them.
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Disappointingly, they didn't test Pragmasis, but they did test Almax.


Bumpety bump:

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/security/motorcycle-chains-and-locks/tested-pragmasis-protector-16mm-chain-with-roundlock-rl21-padlock-review

Angle grinder 17 seconds for the 16mm, 10 seconds for the 13mm Shocked
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, that's disappoint.

I guess the tl;dr version is that pretty much everything is just a visual deterrent to all but the most casual joyriding neds.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is the time isn't of the essence unless you can halt them for at least a few minutes, long enough for a police car to arrive (presuming someone phones them Rolling Eyes )

We have all seen the videos of them using angle grinders in crowded streets without a care in the world. No one is going to interfere except maybe the owner.

At the moment, with the lack of police and soft sentencing, the fuckers have won. Evil or Very Mad
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


They rate the Oxfraud Monster XL well because of its resistance to cropping and sledgehammer attacks, but the angle grinder went through it in just 17 seconds, so you'd better hope your thief is planning to do it the hard, bulky, old fashioned way.


So the Oxford chain is better than the Almax chains. That's one in the eye for the Oxford bashers Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 07 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:


They rate the Oxfraud Monster XL well because of its resistance to cropping and sledgehammer attacks, but the angle grinder went through it in just 17 seconds, so you'd better hope your thief is planning to do it the hard, bulky, old fashioned way.


So the Oxford chain is better than the Almax chains. That's one in the eye for the Oxford bashers Laughing

That's what I was thinking Smile Does BCF know anything? Crying or Very sad
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
vice wrote:
May as well just carry a gun though right? Same sentence?

Same charge (ho ho), but I'd be surprised if you got the same time for it (or the same community service if you're Disadvantaged).


There doesn't seem to be any law explicitly stating they're illegal.
A cynical person might say they're quite happy for people to stab and murder people instead.

I would go with these things so they won't be sitting down for a while.
http://www.armurerie-loisir.fr/1580-large_default/flash-ball-compact-verney-carron.jpg
http://www.armurerie-loisir.fr/flash-ball/546-flash-ball-compact-verney-carron.html
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any law explicitly stating [stun guns are] illegal.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/5

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Flack+v+Baldry+(1988)

Ignorance of (case) law is not a defence. However, it may be mitigation if you're a trucker having to zap fugees off of your rig.

Not an entirely dissimilar situation, being swarmed by a hooting mob of thieving Diversities.
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

We live in a country where celebrities are idolised by poor people and the middle classes hated, unfortunately that means that unless you're famous, you cant have nice things.

As much as I'd like to see all the theives in jail, I know that's impossible. Likewise securing a bike against a cordless grinder without a building is impossible. Purchase according to the current rules of the game.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 10 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


In this instance with buried case law and another abuse of the meaning of the words from the courts,again, to drag tasers into firearms law, it's not so much ignorance but being denied access to the law.

How is the average person find it without being specifically aware of such matters?

Then there's the question of does this apply in Scotland as I haven't found the finer details on that case you've pointed to.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 01:44 - 24 Apr 2018    Post subject: Re: Detailed bike chain comparison test Reply with quote

I would go with these things so they won't be sitting down for a while.
http://www.armurerie-loisir.fr/1580-large_default/flash-ball-compact-verney-carron.jpg
http://www.armurerie-loisir.fr/flash-ball/546-flash-ball-compact-verney-carron.html[/quote]

Above webstore wrote:
Effet : coup de poing


At 120J that's still a firearm in this country, but what a great onomatopoeia.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 24 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still stand by the ride a shitter as a daily hack, so apart from having to pay for a bus home you could walk away from both if it was nicked, or there were four hoodies with hammers, croppers, cordless tools and maybe acid.

Who in my illustration wants to commute to work on a Ducati 1299R anyway, and who would be happy to leave it outside all day in the rain and shit and grime. Rich city boys with more money than savvy are the ones propping up bike thefts in the city.

If all the bikes in the bay were tatty GS500's then they'd only ever steal them for using in crime (unlikely compared to a high powered maxi scooter), or for just joy rides (unlikely as its not a wannabe MX racer or pretend supermoto). They won't steal them for ebaying them as parts as there's 1000's of GS500's out there and all worth the sum of fuck all.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 24 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I still stand by the ride a shitter as a daily hack, so apart from having to pay for a bus home you could walk away from both if it was nicked, or there were four hoodies with hammers, croppers, cordless tools and maybe acid.

No point riding then IMO. It's like having a Nokia 3310 just in case you get mugged. Obviously if you leave an expensive sports bike parked on street overnight you're asking for trouble, but no way would I ride (something like) an ER5 just to stay off the baklaf radar.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:30 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
there's 1000's of GS500's out there

There are 1,797, according to howmanyleft.

There are "hundreds of thousands" of motorcyclist and scooterists in London, according to MAG.

Not everyone can ride an old shitter, any more than we can all eat for free out of dumpsters. Someone needs to keep buying new bikes, shitters or otherwise.
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 12:46 - 25 Apr 2018; edited 1 time in total
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