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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 17:05 - 15 Aug 2017 Post subject: MZ 150 ETZ, Rhyno's super fun time in the garage |
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Today I checked the chain adjustment of the MZ, it was rather slack so I tightened it, but then moving the wheel around the chain got too tight in one spot. So I thought I Fazered the adjustment and started from there again. This time I got perfect chain tension , but after I moved the rear wheel again, it got too lose. Constantly rotating the wheel and checking the tension, I can tell it gets tighter and looser, as the chain moves.er, as the chain moves.
Now, is it fecked chain (how?) or could something be bent? The gearbox leaks around the output shaft seal, so that could be a clue, but the leak is minor. The sprockets look alright, the chain seems fairly new, no dead links noticed. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
Last edited by RhynoCZ on 22:21 - 04 Sep 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 17:12 - 15 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Are all the rollers in place?
If it's on an OEM chain, the rollers have a tendancy to split and fall off. You usually find them in a pile of sludge at the bottom of the rear chain enclosure. Jawas and Minsks do the same.
Rumour has it that there is actually a factory tolerance for a maximum number of respectable communist chain rollers you can lose before the state recommends bringing the peoples motorcycle you have been entrusted with for servicing, with appropriate requisition forms completed in triplicate.
Also check it hasn't sheared any of the bolts holding the rear sprocket on. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Evil Hans |
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Evil Hans World Chat Champion
Joined: 08 Nov 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 17:27 - 15 Aug 2017 Post subject: Re: MZ 150 ETZ, chain adjustment issues |
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RhynoCZ wrote: | Today I checked the chain adjustment of the MZ, it was rather slack so I tightened it, but then moving the wheel around the chain got too tight in one spot. So I thought I Fazered the adjustment and started from there again. This time I got perfect chain tension , but after I moved the rear wheel again, it got too lose. Constantly rotating the wheel and checking the tension, I can tell it gets tighter and looser, as the chain moves.er, as the chain moves.
Now, is it fecked chain (how?) or could something be bent? The gearbox leaks around the output shaft seal, so that could be a clue, but the leak is minor. The sprockets look alright, the chain seems fairly new, no dead links noticed. |
I had exactly this on my Bandit. I couldn't actually spot what the issue was, but in the end I replaced the chain and sprockets and the problem went away. Sorry, that probably wasn't that helpful! ____________________ Triumph Sprint ST 1050. And it's Red. |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:44 - 15 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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As far as I know, all the rollers were there and shiny. I'm gonna do some more investigating. I had not much of time today. The chain looks brand new, the gearbox oil sure kept it nice and lubricated.
I can't remember when was the last time someone took the front sprocket cover off. This could be the very first time in 8 years, that I have it in the garage.
https://image.ibb.co/kMd3Ra/IMG_20170815_142722.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/iW4zzv/IMG_20170815_144645.jpg ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 12:19 - 16 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Probably a good idea to have a look at the rear one too. I know it's tricky to get at but I remember hearing a clunk from the back end of my Minsk 125 only to find it had sheared 4 out of the 5 bolts holding the rear sprocket on. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 11:30 - 04 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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UPDATE
As suggested, I made further investigation. The rear sprocket seems alright, no teeth missing, it seems rather fresh. Now for the interesting part, I found one dead bearing (left), one alright bearing (right) and one bearing I'd like to change but have no idea how (sprocket brearing = there's no play and it's smooth, so might gonna leave it as is). The wheel bearigns are CSSR made, so they are probably from the late 80's. The sprocket bearing is somewhere inside the whole carrier (how do I take it appart?). The rubber part of the carrier seems alright and sturdy.
Could it be the carrier was not seated properly on the wheel hub, which could affect the chain tension adjustment?
I'm gonna inspect the front sprocket and output shaft again, but it was alright the last time I checked.
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_112923.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_111243.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_112643.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_112820.jpg ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 12:03 - 04 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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I can't see the wheel seating badly affecting the chain tension because I'm pretty sure it's a quick-release setup with the sprocket and carrier attached to the left swingarm with a large bolt and a flat-sided stub in an oval hole? If that big nut's tight, the carrier should be square and I can't really see how the chain tension could fluctuate. Unloess it weasn't fully seated in the hole? But then I'd expect real difficulty getting the wheel spacer in.
One other thing that occurred to me, is the engine in square? Any play or cracks on the mounts? There is a fair bit of movement on some of those MZ motors anyway.
Communist era bearings can be measurably oval. My minsk had CCCP marked bearings, they were appallingly bad. On the plus side, MZ generally use utterly standard size car wheel bearings throughout. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:16 - 04 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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I see, well the wheel bearings are £1.40 per unit, no problem there.
Do you happen to know how may I get inside the rear sprocket carrier? There is obviously a bearing inside as well and now it'd be a good time to do it. I don't have a torch nor press, so if that's how you take it appart, then I won't even bother.
The engine mount could be the culprit, I'm gonna check it later today, might as well just replace it.
Also, the left axle couldn't be tightened up too much, as that would make the wheel drag. I get it this was due to the dead bearing, or I'm missing some bits and/or wisdom. The right axle nut may be tightened properly, with no issues. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:04 - 04 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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Looking at this (250ETZ), the only spacers there are the number 8, 32 and 33. I'm pretty sure I have 32 and 33, not sure about no. 8. I also can't seem to remember there even was no. 7 between the bearings.
https://www.mobile.ost2rad.de/images/etz250-hinterrad-bremse.gif ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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lingeringstin... |
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lingeringstin... Trackday Trickster
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:02 - 04 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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Well, moving on
So, I was looking around and did find a clip inside the carrier. The clip was cracked and removing it turned into a half hour of pure fun. After that, I started to take things apart, all went quite well. Maybe even too well.
The carrier bearing wasn't that bad, but there was a little play and as I was already there and the bearings on the MZ cost next to nothing, I'm gonna replace it as well.
I also found scoring marks on the axle, but they don't seem that bad. Oh and the engine is tilting left.
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_154558.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_152146.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_162908.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_161040.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_162654.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_160026.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_163519.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_151349.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170904_164343.jpg ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
Last edited by RhynoCZ on 17:26 - 04 Sep 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:05 - 04 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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Also, looking at this, I might be missing one bearing.
https://www.moto-prodejna.cz/images/etz250-hinterradantrieb.gif ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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lingeringstin... Trackday Trickster
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:16 - 04 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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That is actually good news, thank you. I'm gonna get the rear wheel sorted and then I'm gonna ''straighten up'' the engine.
I'm still hoping all the issues, I've had, were due to the dead bearing.
Feck this, I checked it now and I'm definitely missing the spacer that goes between the wheel bearings. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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lingeringstin... Trackday Trickster
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lingeringstin... Trackday Trickster
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lingeringstin... Trackday Trickster
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:09 - 05 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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Yes, the short pipe. A friend of mine is fabricating one as we speak. And I did have the issues you are talking about, I couldn't tighten the axle, as that would cause excatly what you've described. That also probably fecked up the left bearing, but it could be a conicidence, as those bearings are at least 28 years old.
The bolt is from the side cover, I just screwed it in, so I could rest the sprocket and chain there. I'm not going to change the chain, so there's no need to split it.
Also, this happened to me some time ago, when I crashed the bike on mud (no damage, no injuries). After that, I was riding it home and noticed the rear end was wobbling, so I stopped the bike and made this lovely picture.
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/180920143364.jpg ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:09 - 06 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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I'm done, ... and the chain tension adjustment is still impossible to do, so I'm gonna replace the chain next.
I put the spacer (see last picture) between the wheel bearings. I can now finally tighten the wheel axle, which makes the whole rear end more tight, less wobbly and quite possibly much safer. I'm genuinely surprised how well the MZ rides now, no play in the wheel whatsoever. It's like when you have low tyre pressure and then inflate it properly, I'm very pleased with the result. £3.50 well spent.
I also resealed the output shaft, put a new rubber seal and paper gasket there, will see how well it'll keep the MZ's oil inside the gearbox. Even if it doesn't, I won't be mad.
The new sprocket carrier bearing is also in place. I might have damaged the bearing in the proces of reassembly, OR the previous bearing wasn't even bad, as the feel in the bearing inside the carrier is the same as it was. The bearing is about £1.80, so I'm gonna ask a more experienced friend of mine to check my work and maybe replace the bearing. It's an easy job, the worst part of all this is to take the rear wheel off and put it back on again. I'm a very calm lad, but putting the wheel back on the bike today made me say the words feck and cxnt quite a lot.
I'm gonna put it this way, if I had a rear tyre puncture and the puncture repair kit with me, I'd call the AA and wouldn't even bother fixing it myself.
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170906_130652.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170906_133500.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170906_134634.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170906_141427.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170906_142306.jpg
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20170905_204047.jpg ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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lingeringstin... |
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lingeringstin... Trackday Trickster
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 10:59 - 07 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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I would say, it looks like you've replaced a nasty bearing with a nasty bearing.
They are standard sizes. At least one of them in your pictures (not sure whaty bit it's of) is a 6302 -2ZR and apparently made in Solvakia? I know you're patriotic but not a place famed for it's precision engineering in this regard?
For roughly double the cost, you could have a German made FAG one that will be mostly circular. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 11:18 - 07 Sep 2017 Post subject: |
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The carrier one is a standard 6004, I think I damaged it while putting the short axle through it. The place of origin didn't really influence my purchase. It's my mate's bike and he told me to get the cheaper bearings made in Slovakia.
I think to put the short axle through the bearing safely, I'm gonna have to use a torch. I was very careful, yet I might have put too much of lateral stress on it during the assembly process. As said earlier, the bearing is cheap and easy to get to, so replacing it is not really an issue.
HOW do you actually put the short axle through the bearing?
I lubricated the bearing, put it on the axle as far as it went, then layed the bearing down on a vice, so the inner and outter ring was supported, and then gently tapped the axle through the bearing with a hammer (used a piece of wood on top of the axle to protect it). ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 205 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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