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Tuition fees interest go up to 6.1% for Brits

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pudder
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
So we have an entire generation of "student graduates" who have no ambition to earn over £21,000 before they reach their late 40's/early 50's. Awesome.


To clarify, when its says 77% will never pay it off, it means never fully pay it off.
(Rather than never start paying it back).

You seem to think people go to university with the sole aim of racking up as much debt as possible, then come out with no intention of using their degree. I know you won't believe me, but I never once encountered anyone at uni that didn't want to get a well paying job afterwards.

In my opinion the main problem is that everyone is now encouraged and coaxed into going to university.
Not everyone is cut out for academia, and I worry that apprenticeships or other vocational qualifications are kind of being portrayed as only for those too stupid to get into uni.

2 anecdotal cases of people I went to college with:
One spent 3 years trying to pass his first year uni course, only to drop out with probably £25k debt and no qualification. If the college lecturers were honest with him (and he were honest with himself) he should never have gone to uni.

Other refused to apply to university, despite our lecturer going on about how bad a decision he was making. We all took the piss because as far as we had been told he was being stupid. He then went to airbus, and they paid his uni course fees, while he was earning a decent wage. Not so stupid in the end...
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
You claimed this was a gap year.

I thought Percy had completed his thesis and was just waiting for his "Tried Hard!" gold sticker?
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pudder
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Really, it's that low? That would take almost 35 years to pay back a £40K loan, which gets written off after 25 years anyway.

What the feck are they all moaning about? Maybe if the repayment's were realistic, they would start treating "borrowed" money with the respect it deserves?


Play around with loan calculations here:
https://www.speedking.eu/student-loan-calculator/

I honestly don't think is there is a that much moaning going on. For post-2012 graduates the current years interest is higher than perhaps seems fair, but over the long term it should level out.

The media and the activist few shout about it loudly, but I would wager that 95% of graduates don't know what the rate is or how it is calculated. Its a cost to be paid, that gets taken before they ever see it.

One thing that is wrong is the government retroactively changing the terms of loans. If you sign up to a loan agreement, then the terms should not subsequently change... Can't blame people for getting pissed at that.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:


You claimed this was a gap year. Meaning, you're still clinging onto the teat of education, hiding away from adulthood whilst fast approaching your 30's. (or is it mid 30's now?)


No I didn't Laughing . You've just seen various bits of information regarding my life now and in the past, and have decided to smash it all together to form your own narrative.

This is how you process most things, I believe.

Rogerborg wrote:

I thought Percy had completed his thesis and was just waiting for his "Tried Hard!" gold sticker?


Correct. Well, half correct. Because I decided to duck out of the course one year early (instead of doing the integrated masters year) I was told I have to do some kind of project piece to make up for the fact that I didn't do one in my 3rd year - the time when I would have done one if I were on a standard BSc. So, although I'm not due another penny of loans or funding, and although I won't be stepping foot on campus ever again, and although I've passed enough exams and got enough credits for an official Institute of Physics approved physics degree, in order to get one with the 'Leeds Uni' stamp on it I'm sat here writing a literature review on the physics of planetary ocean circulation (doesn't involve gyroscopes Wink ) every evening after work. Should be done in about 2 weeks, then I can collect my gold sticker and

https://media.giphy.com/media/arDBPjuX7LcOs/giphy.gif
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
pudder wrote:
I would wager that 95% of graduates don't know what the rate is or how it is calculated.


And this is the worrying bit. They're quite happy to run up crazy debts


You don't seem to have minded when bankers did it, though? Or the fact that their £1Trillion of sudden debt was chucked on the public purse in a matter of days. And certainly not a peep from you now that the entire banking sector is going on exactly as it was before, with no change in rules or regulations, all official enquiries shelved halfway through, and barely a slap on the wrist for those who knew exactly what was going on in the lead-up to the crash. Oh but they're adults with lots of big shiny pots of money so they're allowed to do what they want, because they have money, which means they're morally superior in every way. Students are worse and far more irresponsible, everything is their fault.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
mpd72 wrote:


So we have an entire generation of "student graduates" who have no ambition to earn over £21,000 before they reach their late 40's/early 50's. Awesome.


A graduate earning 35k would have a monthly salary over a grand higher than one earning 21k and would have to pay back roughly 100 quid a month on student loan.

No incentive?


About ~7 years ago I was on £36k and paid back £200-250 PM I believe.

Edit:- £160 I just found on an old pay slip
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
arry wrote:

A graduate earning 35k would have a monthly salary over a grand higher than one earning 21k and would have to pay back roughly 100 quid a month on student loan.

No incentive?


Really, it's that low? That would take almost 35 years to pay back a £40K loan, which gets written off after 25 years anyway.

What the feck are they all moaning about? Maybe if the repayment's were realistic, they would start treating "borrowed" money with the respect it deserves?


It might be low now however when I was at uni I think the max loan you could get was £3k PA.

However that was about 10 years ago when it was £1200 PA in fees. it's what £9k+ now?


The system is designed now to keep these people in debt for near enough life.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
MPD72 what are you actually advocating?

Cheaper fees for higher education, Making life tougher for graduates, or educating fewer people?
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Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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arry
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:

The system is designed now to keep these people in debt for near enough life.


Has a handy side effect of making people considering going to university actually think about whether it's worth their while. That's no bad thing.
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pudder
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Joined: 04 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:

And this is the worrying bit. They're quite happy to run up crazy debts (I've seen a case of £24K in the first year on the news), without having a clue how much this debt will cost them or how much of it they'll pay back.


Rather than place all the blame on the students, perhaps those advocating for university applications (college lecturers and careers advisors in my experience) should be highlighting the costs and possible alternatives.

How many 18 year olds know what the Bank of England base rate is, RPI, CPI, expected salary?

You want to get a well paid job, and in a job market saturated with graduates you will need a degree to be considered, therefore a financial investment is required.

My guess (could be wrong) is that applicants are aware that repayments will be a percentage of their salary, and that it will be written off after a period of time.

mpd72 wrote:
It seems that some at least are treating it a a credit card they think will get wiped out before they have to pay it off in full and as a result are treating money without the respect it needs as an adult.


What's the alternative, not go to uni, and likely be excluded from the career you want?

Current loans (2016-17):
Full time tuition fee - Up to £9250
Maintenance loans (living costs) - Up to £11002
The maintenance loan is means tested against your parents, and varies depending on where you will be living. £11002 is living away from home in London.

Max available loan = £20252

There are also grants which do not have to be paid back, but which decrease the loan amount available.

That's a lot of money, but its not like you are just given a blank cheque and told do your worst. It is a finite amount of money.


Quote:
It's a sign of the times, with nobody seemingly owning cars outright anymore.


Not quite sure how that is relevant..
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
pudder wrote:
=
Full time tuition fee - Up to £9250
Maintenance loans (living costs) - Up to £11002
The maintenance loan is means tested against your parents, and varies depending on where you will be living. £11002 is living away from home in London.

Max available loan = £20252



That is PA, so £60k for a bog standard BA/BSc.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:00 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
chris-red wrote:

The system is designed now to keep these people in debt for near enough life.


Has a handy side effect of making poorer people considering going to university actually think about whether it's worth their while. That's no bad thing.



FTFY

While I agree Uni shouldn't be as easy to get into as it was, I'd rather it be limited on Academic quality rather than ££££.
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Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
pudder wrote:
What's the alternative, not go to uni, and likely be excluded from the career you want?

That slightly depends on if the degree is actually necessary for the career they want and if the career they want is actually within their reach.

If the degree would open doors for them then it's a relatively simple matter of cost vs benefit.
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pudder
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
pudder wrote:
=
Full time tuition fee - Up to £9250
Maintenance loans (living costs) - Up to £11002
The maintenance loan is means tested against your parents, and varies depending on where you will be living. £11002 is living away from home in London.

Max available loan = £20252



That is PA, so £60k for a bog standard BA/BSc.


Yep, sorry should have made that clear.
Was looking at the £24k debt in first year that mpd mentioned, and wondered what the maximum student loan currently is.

Assume there must have been a third party loan/credit card to make up the extra.
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pudder
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
pudder wrote:
What's the alternative, not go to uni, and likely be excluded from the career you want?

That slightly depends on if the degree is actually necessary for the career they want and if the career they want is actually within their reach.

If the degree would open doors for them then it's a relatively simple matter of cost vs benefit.


And this is yet another downside of the proliferation of degrees..

If every man and his dog have one, then employers will treat it is a necessity.
All the interviewers will have degrees, and find in strange that you didn't go to university.
Rather than being a selling point of a candidate, anyone without a degree will simply get their CV filed under B.

That's an exaggeration of course, but it seems inevitable that more and more jobs that historically didn't require a degree will require one.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
MPD72 what are you actually advocating?

Cheaper fees for higher education, Making life tougher for graduates, or educating fewer people?

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Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it still free in scotchland?
If they have a 6.1% increase, what's 6.1% of £0?
All in it together! Laughing
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:

About ~7 years ago I was on £36k and paid back £200-250 PM I believe.

Edit:- £160 I just found on an old pay slip


Difference scheme in a different time; I was using a modern example.
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pudder
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
That bad debt was toxic because it was borrowed by people without the intention or ability to pay it back. Like students.


Don't hate the player, hate the game... or something like that.. Confused

The loans are set up in such a way that they are wiped clean after a period, and that a majority will never be repaid in full.

That isn't the fault of the students.
When offering the loans, the creditor should set up the terms such that they will not lose money.

If you're shopping for a new bike and the dealer offered you finance on the following terms:
£5000 price tag
You have to pay back at least £50 a month for 3 years
Anything left over at the end is wiped out

If you accept, are you screwing the dealer over, or is he screwing himself over?
Would you pay anything over £50 a month?

(I know its not exactly comparable, but its the point that counts.)
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:

While I agree Uni shouldn't be as easy to get into as it was, I'd rather it be limited on Academic quality rather than ££££.


And so say all of us; but the principles of money following money run deeper than just this issue. If a rich brat doesn't have to think twice about going to uni then the chances are they don't need to go to uni anyway. Daddy's firm will employ him regardless, and Uncle Buck's firm will be easily persuaded to take him on. If he does go to uni he's going to have the same warm welcome into the working world.

This doesn't change the position that a 'poor' person can apply for, and receive, the money required to obtain a university education. Yes, this incurs debt. The trade off then is, is the debt worth it for the benefit it will bring in either increased salary or increased quality of life. Moreover, is the degree even necessary?
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