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clarkeb
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PostPosted: 15:22 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Bike advice for a newcomer Reply with quote

I am new to riding and am looking to purchase my first bike and have settled on a Honda CBR125. I plan on having it for 6-12 months to gain some riding experience before moving on to my full licence.

At this stage i don't want to spend too much money on a 125 that i'm not going to have for too long (probably). I have found two, however am unsure which would be better so advice would be appreciated.

Option 1 is an 05 with 42k on the clock thats had a fair amount of work done this year as he said the health check didn't have good results. It will be getting new spark plug too. MOT due mid Jan 18.
Option 2 is an 08 with about 30k on the clock (2 owners). Currently unsure of its service history but am told there is lots of paperwork and has had lots of services. Passed an MOT last week with no problems.

Both asking for 1k ono.

Do i go for the newer, less mileage and recently MOT'd, or do i go with the older and more mileage but lots of work been done?

Thanks for any help in advance.


Last edited by clarkeb on 15:39 - 21 Aug 2017; edited 1 time in total
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without knowing how much they are asking for them the answer might be

1, 2, Neither or Both!


Also ....


Yamaha YBR

Wink
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clarkeb
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, OP edited :)
I did consider the Yamaha but was told the Honda is a bit bigger...im fairly tall.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahoy and welcome.

Typing fast to get InB4 your ritual Teffing.

Perfectly decent choice of bike, but ...

[EDITED]
Nope, the pre 2011 CBR is tiny. Unless you really want a sportsbike, then the YBR is indeed the default choice at that budget.


...I'd question the merit of wobbling around essentially untrained rather than getting the training up front where it will help you.

You can get licensed up and then go and buy a 125 if you want. You won't, but you could.

OK, assuming that you're determined to go for a 125, and that you have your CBT, security, gear, and insurance all budgeted (and that you're aware that some underwriters won't switch a policy from a 125 to a bigger bike), the answer is: it depends on the actual condition of the bikes.

At the moment, we just have word salad. Based on that, the yummier option looks like the 2008.

But: cost, actual work done, dealer MOT (not worth the paper it's written on), condition of the consumables, and test ride. The carbed CBR125s seem to have a habit of gumming up their idle jets, so treat any "just needs a good run" claims with scepticism.

If you show us links to the adverts then we might be able to help biglier.

Now over to Mike to see if he can put you off the WHOLE ideae.
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I'd go for the lower mileage. That poor little bike has been ranted for 40k miles by teenage learners with no mechanical sympathy Wink


Seat height is about about 15mm more on the old CBR than the YBR so not vastly different. If your height is likely to be an issue try a few bikes for size - you might even find an upright like the YBR less cramped.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seat-to-pegs is what would bother me, unless OP is all torso. Definitely try before you buy.
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clarkeb
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are private sellers - something else i probably should have mentioned...sorry!
Does that chance anything?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer private, you can look them in the eye rather than being lied to 2nd hand by a dealer.

You will want to blag a quick cash-in-hand test ride even if it's just round the block. Your CBT covered / will cover some pre-ride checks - do them on the bike.

And really, the phrase "Just needs..." is a red flag unless you're sure what you're doing. You don't want a bike with any sort of story behind it.

Ad links would help - we're not going to gazump them (steady, Paddy).
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clarkeb
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay thanks for the tip!
I would but theres not much point, both the ad's are quite bare.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Option one sounds like a right fucking rip off afaic.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Loads of Work' means little or nothing.. and when a NEW spark plug.. whoo! Hold the press on that one! is a 'headline' feature of the amount of work done..... it doesn't exactly give ME, to who a complete engine tear down, suspension over haul and new fork seals is just a 'bit of a spruce up'..... Begs suggestion that the newer, lower miles bike, is ahead on points from the off... BUT.. Iwouldn't even dream of paying a grand for a 7-plus year old kiddie-go-kwik commuter in a play-suit... seriousely? And for 'just' a few months?
You will, with a 'boring' YBR get 99% of the barely adequete performance any 125 has, and probably more on an older pre-abused example, where the kiddie-go-kwik "When I grow-up I wanna be a sports byke" has likely spent most of its life i the hands of kiddie-go-kwik owners more interest in how it looks and how fast it goes than actually getting anywhere... so likely suffered even more than most learner-bikes being thrashed, trashed and crashed, by folk that would rather spend any cash or credit they have on a tinted visor, monster stickers, and carbon effect end cans.... chains, sprockets, tyres, oil-changes? You know the sort of stuff that actually counts, nah! That can wait till next pay-day....
YBR? Sensible bike, likely owned by more sensble rider, who NOT bothered about a fancy play-suit, probably isn't so bothered about tinted visors, suspension stickers, or noisy exhausta, and MAY be a bit more bothered about adjusting the chain from time to time, and making sure the oils topped up... of course, little garantee they don't find other ways to prefeck it, by say over tightening the chain, or over filling the oil, or cleaning the carburetor till it breaks.... B-U-T.. better chance that any work they have done is worth-while work, not just wiping a damp rag over the shiny bits and changing the spark plug, bigging that up to a 'total overhaul'!!!

B-U-T your money your call.... you want garantees, go to a main stealer, buy new, get a warrany.. you want cheaps? Take your chances.
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clarkeb
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PostPosted: 20:02 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your thoughts Mike albeit feeling fairly belittled by the way you wrote that - i'm well aware i have no experience in this area.
I can understand where you're coming from but i cant comment on how they've been ridden because i don't know the sellers.

I did consider the YBR but was told the Honda is a bit bigger, a bit less clunky and bit more reliable but thats all i had to go off...but i suppose thats down to how they've been ridden i suppose. i've got some YBR's bookmarked and have registered interest.
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clarkeb
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we go then:
Description: Yamaha YBR125 very good condition, new tyre&battery Jan last year. Mot July. Full service history. 19k miles. £950
Another: 2009 Yamaha YBR 125 with 19460 miles. I've had it implemented with NEW rear sprocket and chain, NEW spark plug. Just had a service. Also it will come with 12 MONTHS of MOT. Price includes the top box. £1050

...thoughts?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkeb wrote:
albeit feeling fairly belittled by the way you wrote that

Unfairly, but that's amazingly gentle for a hello from Mike. He's either on the right meds, or right off them, it's hard to tell.

The post 2011 CBR is a human sized bike, but the model before that is neater - you'll see when you try one.

It does look good though and they're more premiumy than the likes of a YBR, CBF (which I'd avoid, far too many rusty examples) or an older CG. If you fit OK and the bike's a good 'un, there's no reason not to get it.

Just do judge based on the actual condition that you can see, not what you're told, and be ready to walk away if you're not happy - there will be another one along in a minute.

Don't fret too much though, at the end of the day it's a £1K bike and it's all good experience.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkeb wrote:
Here we go then:
Description: Yamaha YBR125 very good condition, new tyre&battery Jan last year. Mot July. Full service history. 19k miles. £950
Another: 2009 Yamaha YBR 125 with 19460 miles. I've had it implemented with NEW rear sprocket and chain, NEW spark plug. Just had a service. Also it will come with 12 MONTHS of MOT. Price includes the top box. £1050

...thoughts?


Why not new front sprocket as well? They wear much quicker than rear ones - I suppose owner could've replaced front one between two rears and so when this rear one was fitted there was no need for a front. But even so. Basically I personally would have to see photos first, then go and actually clap eyes on the bike(s) in the metal. I'd also want to hear them running. Without doing those things the prices and spiel aren't *that* relevant. Okay, let's assume the best - both bikes are cosmetically good (no corrosion, no blatant signs of anything other than a pathetic "drop" on a garage forecourt or gravelly bit of drive, etc. etc. I suppose both bikes are reasonably priced - or at least, they're at the going rate. You'd probably not lose too much on them over the course of a year or two if you were to maintain them to their present condition.
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clarkeb
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! Thats what i was planning on but if i found something like rusty bits i have no idea what impact that would have on the cost - all down to inexperience!
The first turned out to be sold anyway!
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 05:45 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkeb wrote:
The first turned out to be sold anyway!

Y-e-r-s you'll find that happens a lot... there are 65 million people in the UK; half of them drive cars and there are more cars than there are folk with licences to drive'em. Motorbikes are in a very very small minority; less than 1% of road miles are covered by them, there around 1/2 million 'motorcycles' of all cc's and types from 50cc mopeds through to liter-plus monsters taxed and available for use in the UK, compared to 30 million cars... around half of all taxed bikes are over Learner-Legal 125cc; of those that are Learner-Legal, two thirds are twist and go scooters, not motorbikes; so 500,000 motorcycles, 250,000 learner-legal motorcycles, maybe 80,000 that aren't scooters, or mopeds... around half, if not more, now, are generic chinese derivatives sold under various brand names; Typical learner legal motorcycle has a service life of approximately 10 years, and aprox 5 owners, as they tend to be kept as long as a CBT cert lasts.... so, there are only around 80,000 motorcycles in the country that you might want; of them, probably 2/3 are generic Chinese offerings, not Honda, Yamaha or Aprilia 'known brands'... and of all of them, there are likely to only be about 1/2 to 1/3 to be offered for sale in any year; that's maybe 1000 125cc motorcycles a month coming up for sale..... you are looking at ones in the £1000 price range, which is the bottom third to half the market.... you are now restricting your search to perhaps 500 bikes a month.... the length & breadth the country....

Just like you, no-one wants to pay more than they have to for a 'little' bike that they don't expect to keep long, and they certainly don't want to pay more for a 125cc motorbike than than they would a 2.0l BMW car... more still look at bikes for low cost economy transport, so want to spend as little as possible, so ALL are chasing the cheaper end of the market.... and it's something of a shock and disappointment, to go shopping and NOT have folk falling over themselves trying to sell you a motorbike, like they do frozen ready-meals, double glazing or second hand cars.....

I could walk a mile in any direction from where I live, and I am bound to spot at least three, if not half a dozen cars with 'For Sale' signs in the window, on the street, and I would find three used car lots with at east half a dozen to a dozen offerings on the forecourt, before I reached town and the three main dealerships..... or popped into the Cosovan Car-wash, and asked what they had tucked in the field just outside town!

Bikes? I MIGHT spot one for sale..... and this is a biker town!

With offerings THAT thin on the ground, you HAVE to turn your thinking around and re-align expectations; What the buyers guides may or may not say about something offered new, means bog all, out in the second hand market, where owner use ad abuse will make far more difference to what its like. Meanwhile there are far more bikes listed in the buyers guides than the small adds; ad what there IS on offer, only the higher price examples will be in the main-stream adverts; a lot will be on post-cards in the local news-agents window; offered on face-book groups, or simply offered verbally in the pub or school playground or works canteen....

500 bikes possibly for sale this month... 200 of them likely out of your price range... 100 of them NOT in the adverts... that leaves maybe 200 bikes you might want to buy, spread over the entire country.....

IF you want one, a) you need to be prepared to hunt far further afield than whats within your post code b) far harder than whats on e-bay and auto-trader or gumtree listngs on your smart-phone c) you have to be on the ball, and get there QUICK, be able to assess the bike IN THE METAL not on advert bollox or seller schpiel... but what you see, in the metal, NOT the shiny bits because CONDITION IS ALL, in the real-world, not the make believe of the buyers guides or pub pundits, or e-bay listings...

Like I say, you want guarantees, go to a dealer, pay the premium get a warranty; buy 2nd hand, get off the net, pound shoe leather and look at whats REALLY out there, on offer, for sale, here and now; judge for yourself whether its any good in the metal, pays your money and take your chances....

And if you want any useful advice? Lower expectations; expand your search crteria; up your budget, and hold back cash to do a fist week-end super-service, doing ALL the remedial work that the previous owner s almost guaranteed to never have done, even if they knew t needed doing....

Its the end of August.. school/college/uni starts in a couple of weeks, and you are up against the 'rush' to get commuter wheels before the weather turns and half of what is on offer this month starts getting stashed for winter.. so yo are n a race to get to anything worth having, of which in the budget you are suggesting, pickings WILL be thin, ad in a sellers market, your odds of finding a bargain are silm to nil.

You want a bike? Get on your bike, go look. You will learn far more far quicker about whats out there, and whats maybe worth buying, going and looking at REAL bikes in the REAL world, than asking us for advice on makes and models, and to revew specific ads for bikes that IF they were worth buying will have probably been sold by the time you have read replies and got your arse in gear to go look, and if not, probably weren't worth buying to start with.

Have you done your CBT yet? Is not then THAT should be your first priority; it's Compulsary Basic Training, and your first learning; if nowt else they teach you the basic pre-ride checks and routine user maintenance which should give you some idea of what to look for when yo go bike shopping, and some clue on what questions you may ask the seller...

BUT... as said, its a very small, specialist and sellers market.... populated by less clued up customers, 'learners' less likely to know whats what and what to avoid, all eager to get a bike and get going before the leaves fall off the trees....

Get OFF the net, get into the real world, look at real bikes, and don't rush to part with your cash.... you want our assessment of adverts here.. they are ALL crap, they are ALL over priced, they are ALL hiding 'something'.. its the nature of the learner-bike market! Now go look at them... look beyond the ad-blurb, look beyond the paintwork, and try and assess the actual real condition of the thing IN THE METAL... and hope to get a 'better' deal, not a 'bargain' less still a gem, there just aren't enough of'em about for the odds to be even remotely likely!

Note on CBF's... they rust.... But I would rather buy a rusty CBF, that other folk walk away from 'cos of rust, than a shiny CBR with all the rust hidden behind fancy fairings, made to look great with a quick wipe over with tuttlewax! Or a shiny chinky bike that has probably spent most of its life in a shed out of the rain, between fixes or frustrations, not to rust so much, and been shined up with a tube of solvol! In either case, on 2nd hand bike, I would EXPECT to be spending the first week-end cleaning and polishing and noting things like chain and cables that need some remedial attention, and a month, riding and de-niggling the thing, creating a shopping list of service spares the thing has probably never been treated to, like a fresh battery, a C&S kit, new spark plug oil change including fork oil, especially on a learner-bike, probably fork seals, and quite possibly new handlebars, and a brake caliper overhaul kit and new back brake shoes, chain adjusters and stuff like that... WHERE the lack of bodywork on something like a CBF would, to ME be possessive advantage... less hidden behind plastic will be out of sight-out-of-mind, and what isn't is far easier to get at and tackle with a wire brush, paint, solvol, grease and new oil..... but that is me.... if you expect a turn key motorcycle that will run like an Audi for the next two years and 20,ooo miles with no more than an MOT and some 'jobs' noted by the MOT man... you are likely to be very very disillusioned within 6-months.. but that's all part of the learning you'll get fro a learner bike. BUT you need to get hands-on with them, this is some-where google does not have all the answers.
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clarkeb
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very comprehensive! thanks!
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkeb wrote:
Very comprehensive! thanks!


Don't encourage him Very Happy
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, please don't. You're only on your second Teffing and already the Stockholme SYNDROME is kicking in. Whistle

He's not wrong though.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

best buy is a bike 'implemented' with a new spark plug, a new air filter and new oil, would sell for top dollar that...
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old CBR is a really quite a small bike, in fact it's tiny, which is why I upgraded/downgraded from a YZF600R/GSXR1000. It was perfect for getting around London, where it was grid lock traffic from the moment I left my front garden to when I got to work.

The biggest problem I had with the thing is the lack of decent tyres. I bought mine for the handsome some of £600 as a 'non-runner'. The previous owner was a lady who did a few hundred miles before getting pregnant and giving up riding. A charge of the battery and the bike started although was pretty rough and would idle. Took the carb out and gave the idle jet a clean and started and ran perfectly for all of winter. Did the odd motorway run on it and was fine until I came to a hill.

What's the reason on sticking to a 125? What's your age? What you going to use it for?

If you are 100% certain that biking is for you, and over the DAS age it might make sense to bite the bullet and do your full license as bikes can be had for cheaper, and also might be less to insure. Consumables may be higher though. The saving grace on 125's is that when they get to a certain age they tend to hold their value compared to bigger bikes where they tend to depreciate for longer.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

el_oso wrote:
The old CBR is a really quite a small bike, in fact it's tiny

I was wondering if I'd exaggerated a bit, but I was passed by one passed one today and it really was an ickle thing.

The tyres look like bicycle items, which rather spoils the racebike aspirations.

el_oso wrote:
Took the carb out and gave the idle jet a clean

They do all do that, sir.


el_oso wrote:
If you are 100% certain that biking is for you, and over the DAS age it might make sense to bite the bullet and do your full license as bikes can be had for cheaper, and also might be less to insure.

And are easier to ride, and safer. But the heart wants what it wants, and it wants it now.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The width isn't a problem. Plenty of lean angle on well surfaced, dry roads, which are as hard to come by as tyres for this bike. The best option I found was, conti-go's. While they never actually catastrophically let go, they were horrendously squirmy in the wet. Very very unnerving.

Depends what you mean by easier to ride. The one downfall of all 125 (that I've ridden) is the brakes are soft. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially for beginners, but coming from mountain bikes, I'd become accustomed to pinkie finger flip over the handlebar sharpness. Even the k5 gixxer I thought had reasonably soft brakes.

Other than that, I've not found that 125's are less stable than bigger bikes. I have never lived in a particularly windy area, but even though crosswinds do affect smaller bikes more, they're typically easier to correct. The only time I would not recommend a 125 is if you are going to be doing motorways, or motorway style dual carriageways more than rarely. The flats are fine because you'll be doing 70ish. It's the hills + headwind that screw you over, and may find yourself doing below 50.
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clarkeb
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reason for a 125 is that i currently only have my CBT, i want to get some experience before throwing money at a DAS (I'm 26).
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