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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 22:02 - 23 Aug 2017 Post subject: Any enfield experts in the house? New project. |
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jaffa90 |
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jaffa90 World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Apr 2016 Karma :
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Posted: 01:23 - 24 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Oh dear, the one i had (535cc) had a valve lifter on the other side of the plug hole, (yours is twin plugs).
The fork gaiters (i had none) will hide oil weeps, also mine had 3 gears with a seperate lever to kick straight into neutral from 2nd or 3rd gear when stopping.
Still 1950 spec though. |
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BTTD |
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BTTD World Chat Champion
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Pjay |
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Pjay World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 09:05 - 24 Aug 2017 Post subject: Re: Any enfield experts in the house? |
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jnw010 wrote: | How cheap? |
Three guineas and 50 farthings, I assume.
It looks like someone ran a broom round the Chennai factory, tipped it into the bin behind Hitchcocks, gave it a good shake, and that fell out.
Are those sparks running off truly independent coils, or is it just a case of whichever one feels like providing the best earth on any given stroke? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 10:09 - 24 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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It's a twin coil. Has a small black box of electricks.
The plot thickens.
It has definately rattled through hitchcocks at some point. Owner 5 (I am number 7) was one Alan Hitchcock. No idea if anything stuck or if it was just passing through.
The front end is probably off a late 1950's meteor minor. The twin-single front brake is a sidecar specific one, again 1950's.
The clutch is a "scissor clutch" also off a 1950's bike, the entire primary drive may be off one of these.
Investigations continue.
Paid £650 delivered.
The aim is to make a sleeper out of it with upgraded running gear and a fire-breathing motor. I was looking for a frame and a set of crankcases with timing gear attached. I have that. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 21:34 - 26 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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I've pulled a lot of it apart now. The engine has clearly bee built by someone who knows what they are doing. The clutch is apparently good for 50+bhp and it's got a Reddich build gearbox fitted so one less wory from my intention to more than double the BHP.
The frame on the other hand, is the work of an utter fuckwit.
Observe if you will. the mudguard is attached to the swingarm. The chain guard is attached to the frame. When you bounce on it. The mudguard hits the back of the seat and the chain hits the inside of the chainguard.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Bp4sRnFFh2PnUIcT4qVU4tAnrivQm4SRh7heU6FKjz7JA-gnFnJwcABS_bysV26jbVhXhrzdoYSuqxnACWTirvjYF8znqpcm5hJpzj1x6d1UYjMN_qbxmIiYdWTS2Rj6Fl5ELpSt1A=w1182-h886-no
Clutch is great, the spacer they made for it, not so much. There hasn't been oil in here for a very long time. There have been spiders.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3zEi9Xcg7o4N4WV4G-5OyBRT83G8ey5HGVR8wAkdG-dj1F-DwChNuos0cVAsTA_iif2kR2RS8Tm5P-jxw6l4y54qiz-TzUj2IsJim6IRuMlmK9GbvwEIODd9XHeVEcdxC9o9r0R6OA=w1182-h886-no
That Harley exhaust weighs a ton.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VN10jkaHYOn8u0wY1GFWwM5wE2FIDs6HfHZtbll_JiXi899yXskCEiZP2AUkLNewAsHiMIAyKcRKCjrAgWjUH0ZS0kKP_W_ed_FQ1q9VD0AV3OvbyjI_Mg0nj7vrKZ34TIB6tSePhA=w1182-h886-no
FIlter screens clean. It's got an oil filter packing piece and magnet fitted. There was about 100ml of stale fuel sloshing about in the bottom of the crankcase.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RAl0GeaPVlNWbS2rOpWcsb1QUz-k7tZ1Q_x9ajYP2GyRssraKW9CtYNYbfdAmsI4I8avPwGj-_wp5CKquWpBkpNIPP0rzXzVDIJvGAuiVXcH_PKTayFcVJAGlasYZSEdO9tVYePhUA=w1182-h886-no
This aftermarket valve lifter would set you back £100 by itself.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z5-9dDVj_lJ66KxqSgN1DR1B_W46rmXfK-XUCMzBhzNY-dENooYD9Cc_Ie4ln5dBhL40o3zEPwhnIp-j16bMUzQIjj6h7aFfOXhuoPGXiG9RwtwTSqUAKL5xmYWTG_5VCWw5-f7XoQ=w1182-h886-no
Ok, this has to be the work of the fuckwit owner. Helicoil that stripped thread? Nah, lets just fit a non load-rated cheese-head facing downhill so if it comes out, it'll drop stright into the timing gears.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e_dokH4OaHbxaoPW_H48BgdP32jbw7GiNNbiLy5E5QLbuvNEyUbr_93ljCsdcg9XztNstI2fmWI8bXTUxaJyct91HC2E5BPGwe9RA9DxPZb0XcdFn9uzLLPwmy9_KdZca8GxwZhszg=w665-h886-no-
Really nasty original rockers with rough as arseholes casting which appears to have been dressed by hanging out of a moving rickshaw and running it along the road. These will have to go.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dIwt1Kqt0fv0D5bGL0TPAVa-HwzlRNODmCtG0GkDh_h8wFP9w1C52jPQ8juZPyocLcxDJtzujDBRU7zfjhurvt2HSTXqg_b2SBP6f8tCoPZ7BSeDNnQ6V0nOBrTJZ0Du6mIkNhSIMA=w1182-h886-no
Someone has spent an enormous amount of time on this head.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l-hN15iv79Sa5cIwt5c45H7LLUBxk9YU-8L7uMHdD0JL3ta1oHg6s_YRwYpVvwP5LNd9BArzKf0HeD92QtIra60v_veNDPrnNHOjr_XT0o8U7zAP_xzRqOZS1onM2hpi5UhVD8rmw=w1182-h886-no
But didn't believe in gasket sealant. These copper head gaskets look good, but you can get a fibre one with a proper coated fire-ring for a fiver. It would have blown like hell with no wellseal on.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3y1U5vU2xTigveBUqxLJeEIN2VDSmuaisoOoP8ua16YS0NXApFY2SLEi1s9iRh7QbyonfBTxtdjupjmVDyFmuuln_wn_VsmMEI-ww3UJLFnGuEfw8a0FDEM1Oq_Zan2d_0IxEs0JBA=w665-h886-no
Standard size piston. Was hoping for a 535 one.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wyrexPyZcYEac1Z3pP-FiibOsjkZ3V11iWW8BfLhSisUFuul_GA-epdzdAFlxLppvEd0T-cq3-azfsLyVaHbynQHwUMQSsiWyPMMol2Q0C2O65x31u15ezwaDI8yUR2dDyEmmXx-TA=w1182-h886-no
Engine out.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dRNWcBUtw9HT5KH7_SJ6-nyG3prPgHk_qmf0m1nQxlUzfFKkWvz3_92dPqw8wxOuIjCMVQKxRlk7y9bO1nDeRY_9ITas2pWJbhFRrX9uu_SugmQXvKIbRianKSFRVB3DRNycK7LMpw=w1182-h886-no
They were pretty advanced bikes when first made. Engine is a fuly stressed frame member. If you sat on this, it would bend.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l82AMwT9uwJuEhpjDW8qUNJwd1qWfKMLmekQx4hb1Ml4vvic6u2w5dOo_cmOl6xWHICognF2-my-iIm_dGBUZSCWKbkvDd4SHKi51PuLER8Iy1Avy9zIGvxiGx3jJmZh5GKC_MQYpg=w1182-h886-no
Pleased I did take the motor out. Fuckwit has been at it again. Is that a bit of cheap (and now bent) threaded bar masquerading as an engine bolt? Gonna have to hacksaw it to bits. A proper one would have cost all of a fiver.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/c6V_1wK_hLZ6QITFsHVH4hoiMye4io2SGROfxnwVgzDapaEAk3pn5TwH2iOslEQJZt3EDzQRWds8ef82aCmB7zyK6-mbJUs55XKz5ptNTVE-ssto9Z83UpWn-TH4n15XQcUslbez_A=w1182-h886-no
The weirdest thing to my mind is that someone has spent a whole lot of time rebuilding that engine, then never started it. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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pepperami |
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pepperami Super Spammer
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 10:30 - 27 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Watching with interest
The more detail and pictures the better
I is want to learn ____________________ I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now! |
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UnspeedySam |
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UnspeedySam World Chat Champion
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Karma :
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Posted: 10:25 - 28 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Really cool project, but very odd how much work has gone in without it ever being started.
Without being funny, what kind of power is classed as "fire breathing" in the Royal Enfield world...40hp? If you could get it reliable at that kind of power...and upgrade the suspension to match, it could be a bit of a weapon (by my standards).
Look forward to lots more pictures. Although hopefully the weird discoveries end here... ____________________ Riding: Does an Audi estate count?
Fixing: Honda VFR750 RC36 '94 and MZ ETZ 251 '90
Gone: ZZR600 '00, TRX850 '97, RXS100 '93, JS125-6B '07, BMW R1100RS '93, Kawasaki ZX-6R-J2 '01,Honda Bros NT400 NC25 '88 |
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lingeringstin... |
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lingeringstin... Trackday Trickster
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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UnspeedySam |
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UnspeedySam World Chat Champion
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Tracer1234 |
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Tracer1234 World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 16:22 - 28 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Nothing to add, other than this is a very interesting project and I like the thread and all your excellent pics of stuff so far.
Hopefully it becomes the Enfield monster that you are aiming for too. Is there a set budget for this build or have I just spoken the words of a proper idiot?
Nice hearing about the Redditch parts too, out of all the Brit firms once making large bikes ive always liked RE alot more than some, for reasons why I haven't got a clue?
I used to regularly go past the old factory site as a kid and had a couple of mates that lived in the nearby council properties. |
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arry Super Spammer
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 21:23 - 29 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Ok. Timing chest. That's the oddly shaped covering on the right hand side where you'd find the clutch cover on a japanese bike. This contains the cams, followers and an utterly unecessary array of legacy mechanical apparatus to control the ignition timing. I find it one of the more aesthetically pleasing parts of the bike.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GcGGiOmUyO1IOBIefxHHTl-nodA7o9ROV5XtOhVMzwsZpnyYeufEza_bu1ixdLNleNacnRykKMHjcpDba5o5G-Ewbs7fXOEXpSNRvJHZstufgBwqXyRdDzHfXKIvFTIaV5vLmabYbA=w1178-h883-no
First remove the quill bolt. This picks up oil from the feed pump and directs it into the end of the crank through a couple of seals. This engine has synthetic seals around the quill bolt. Arguably, the old cork ones are better. I'll look into this when rebuilding.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yQ-zVyCrAng1B95ZZgD61zdIlTVpEhLPOn15yIKnc-s6T1FDawwx-q4li7b-ejXCDyJeEfY6l4VRgRQibkfw4Hhjg-zu4ZMnh2H1cpxipxVE4nHWwrvuASCmOblxtS7xGoZJlo-Pnw=w1178-h883-no
Timing chest removed. If Bullet engines have a weak point, this is it. There is a worm gear on the end of the crank which meshes with a gear on a shaft runing in the timing case casting. This is the oil pump spindle. it rotates and moves the two oil pump pistons up and down. Excessive load on the oil pumps can lead to it stripping the gears off this spindle and the oil pumps stopping. Catastrophe ensues.
Speaking of catastrophes. Look at all that instant gasket compound inside my fucking engine!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gPEh90Ld0B9wxJXuy5kJX_ksjqBSLJy13crUyUQOFS2J8XmiDF28hW71kFRUdyZA2gMAGTQrpWxlxXqB9WWme0KxCDNJLFf9CRF1sVJgKKfWfyclbjBsrcbmMp-M2qd4cBnBuQo5Qw=w1178-h883-no
Oil pump spindle itself. This one is in good nick. You should be able to rotate it by thumb pressure with the oil pumps in place.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PwhwbearOcSxf6lpb08MkmIvCkYIPspLpWwpWZAiwWUOETay1kvgL3mkIQbmkA58FVnXYmwgQpsDVQEtNuqWtT11jSMCt0leopxybG4r6LPKIdpSriRxTpjGwohb6_IXnydBxYAB6g=w1178-h883-no-
From the right to left. Exhaust cam; timing pinnion (on crank); Inlet cam; Idler; Idler; Distributor Pinnion. All have shims fitted on each side to reduce end-float and prevent rattling, worth remembering where these all are.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RvWi0SwB14uFQq4rcpxUpw8JT7CEQsqi6UqQGFUYqLrEpeGDaRaWge3UUMj2kArggYjFDDTRa7NsxTD-QIH56g27hg0adMbkAvKfdytodXOUNlDL0-JMmBU-llopP5job2MFcl1sxw=w1178-h883-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oqTh3PWiggsjWu2etWdN-Ql29g6Q05Z3z7EmKSSJwiI-_K1CNCy2V7MSUCjkegMZhGqAsU3RIcNtos8-r-glxHRZr6dARuMNrfk90fSDKM9WRpTE0yKha4fIxHzHjOhFfacUmd2WPA=w663-h883-no
Ok. Now hands up to a wee slice of fail. Could have been disastrous but wasn't in the end. The exhaust cam wouldn't come off. I assumed it was binding on the shaft and horsed it off with a puller. It was actually fouling on the crankcase casting. Had I rotated it 90 degrees, it would have pulled off by hand without taking a lump of crankcase with it. .
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Dys36iRISA1rlV8KKsm0JGLNjkilkVlXO8xF8Esix50-Fui_iOFGiHuQXdK5XlltFjwTbT6c8LzwV233jw0TT1CK-xr2iNzM7t9YFKLNkugLqOTfumyDu4EdR4EFTgWYM1hknsl51w=w1178-h883-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AE4v9miMjvNGQPdGgDtRnpbU8wvUiI7QgZANxUKv2_VoqNpCoYm3Mb1A0vxn_nKmCDlNVWUF8kp1QVW1liVxa7blMWwZZHzgMIA9zHJcTyH92SejivEZj4dgPIhrwauMH9hLzZs9Lg=w1178-h883-no
This isn't actually a disaster at all. That bit of casting is a redundant lip that is in no way load bearing. It also needs to be removed anyway and a reasonable chunk more of the casting in that area relieving with a burr in order to fit the cams I want It is however my queue to stop messing with bits of the engine I've never touched before for the day before I do some real damage!
I have however, had a dizzy off before. Remove this nut. Jam a bit of heavy rag between the teeth of the distributor pinnion and the idler next to it to stop it spinning.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GkCg1QyNe-hxW2Prihv5pq5AhhBj9imjyDsUCLcjc_frlbcp6RsFwc1jEiAD74RvTkEpkir6pYphwfKYrhH1bNBiwdtqvtnRthV-XjmEPWVTVE96TRymMzmqz6hmgnlU_0REXX1zrw=w1178-h883-no
I'm too cheap to spend £25 on the proper puller for this. It isn't held on that tightly and if it breaks it costs a tenner less than the pulling tool to replace. I already have a 2-leg puller.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hPypWIghQ4iJFY1AGgSiqgBMiPEm9K1Ul2xC6WPLy0LktYRY--dWca14ZD-0crauKnAj07e1_yVs9IcoG-N8lLplYv-p3nnSXjA4LZPw5wNutEYFHee_PWa2EWa2SjWa7k_3wjgKGw=w1178-h883-no
Then undo those three set screws.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Dg6pOxKQ6dBFnzOr3wsavEg4ZJRpHn0MsaAkLQMkaUWMutz4_ZBcWax4TvcC27CnTqT8VAiZ8BZQz1ZmHmJrJvAxGG97ClHHScm0ypV6DaRXW4Ac0tRiry8X0SJAHtlycGRWRob4Yg=w1178-h883-no
And you can remove the distributor. The reason for the whole load of gears and distributor being fitted to a single cylinder bike (you'd normally have the points on the end of the crank in the vicinity of the alternator in a 4-stroke single like this) is because it originally had a gear driven magneto fitted where there is now a distributor. The engine design is THAT old.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qF9jorFadwXVIlzw-vKNKc7YyTojpP6vo3q9Vy8q2Bq5Su8wazpyqPj9f7hAkLWIFUSmBipWtEaBZ3xzWaUHHA7XFHSJNMmYlFPwCk8VaexR-8Cpxn46urBGbg-eXvSsmodjHGn3mw=w663-h883-no
Trouble is, the distributor casting is rough as arseholes. Pretty sure it's made from a mix of elephant dung and molten coke cans and cast in a childs sandpit that the cat has been using for a toilet. The fitted with cast iron bushes and a grease nipple (the oil doesn't get up this far reliably). I'm toying with the idea of getting a mate of mine to turn me up a billet one with bronze bushes, there isn't a whole lot to it.
It wasn't strictly necessary to take this off but even if I decide to re-use it, I want to fiddle with the bush position to reduce the end float on the shaft (which is substantial and can interfere with the auto-advance if it moves too far). I'll also releive the casting around the auto advance which, even without looking, I know is rough and burred enough to foul a weight on.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tNtam7qBBx0NRFulnwjqMpV0HniqpZnPF17agXnW6LFS0OzhdcWylObK28QxcP67R0uqnoFLcRcnUm1fIVdRbdgSS6qV-0wYaYH9fQpQF78rDhsPnWabrVL5cJSvJeoLpVyBmt6Myw=w1178-h883-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uugfbVMRbYC0vWd-gtCs8PrrW2KqjvOT_qE6ZN7fH_9JF1S9GT_VVJy0C7kGdhmzSEqdMiPQyCofme58yAEJqM4ffwfAB0ACiz7BUIrUW0DaVuDn6RBun1rFX-qy6ZD7aI6dZlxtzw=w1178-h883-no
Next job is to remove the timing pinnion with needs a clearer head than I currently have and possibly a special tool. I may refit a cam to do the jamming a rag in the teeth trick. Then I can split it and see what sort of crank I have. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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P. |
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P. Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :
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Posted: 12:12 - 30 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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When you said cheap, I didn't expect £650...
Is that actually cheap? I'm not an old bike person so this seems like a shit heap for good bike money |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 22:42 - 30 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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Paddy. wrote: | When you said cheap, I didn't expect £650...
Is that actually cheap? I'm not an old bike person so this seems like a shit heap for good bike money |
You'd struggle to find a pre-unit bullet of any sort for less than £1600 at the moment. Even hipster riddled shit heaps (like this was on its way to being).
I was following a fucked engine on ebay not so long ago. A tatty, "vanilla" late Indian 500, missing the primary drive cover, clutch and alternator. It went for more than £600!
As it happens, there are some tasty bits which have made the deal much better. For one thing, I won't have to splurge an inordinate amount of money on an aftermarket clutch. That, combined with the alternator upgrade, pretty much covers the purchase price. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 18:04 - 31 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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If you are hoping to hop up to mid-70's 500-multi sort of power, any real reason for keeping the dizzy rather than going black-box for sparks?
Especially as hint at using some rather lumpy bump-sticks would suggest setting it up after, could take a lot of bob-weights and carb-jets....
I'd be tempted for the fun, to DIY a Mega-Jolt or Mega-Squirt black-box from kit or components, for the fun of, and ease of setting up on a modded motor... but then, I've also been tempted to try using an old Land-Rover transmission brake and an RSJ to make a balance beam bench dyno for small engines!!! (Not got round to that one ether!) ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 237 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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