Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Is my clutch broken? Update: Fixed, but is my engine seized!

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Clutchy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:05 - 06 Sep 2017    Post subject: Is my clutch broken? Update: Fixed, but is my engine seized! Reply with quote

So I bought a non running 535 Virago 1992 to see if I liked this style of bike Shocked

Anyway got it running everything changed over that needed to be and a full service

Go to pull away on the first ride and it lurches forward and stalls almost as if I'm not pulling in the clutch. I can see when the clutch lever is pulled in that the arm that connects to the engine area moves all the way to the max position of movement. So that doesn't need adjusting, perhaps something inside does?

Also it's a shaft driven bike and I've never owned one before, could the issue somehow be related to that? The bike when it's no running cycles through the gears fine and neutral is easy to find.

Thanks for your help
____________________
Malaguti F12 Phantom-Dead, Suzuki AY50- Dead, NRG power DD LQ, CBR125.
*33 BHP restriction up on 10/12/14* Current bikes/car: SV 650 S/ MKIV GOLF
Guide to pass your test with no lessons!


Last edited by Clutchy on 08:29 - 26 Sep 2017; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:09 - 06 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's been standing a long time the clutch might be stuck. Get it running, give it a good shove down the road, hop on and drop into first. If you don't stall it right away you should be able to free the clutch by holding the lever in and getting smartly on and off the throttle. Bear in mind that if you don't manage to free the clutch you're going to have to jiggle it into neutral before it will roll to a stop.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Clutchy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:22 - 06 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Pete will give that a go on Friday it has been standing for over a year.
____________________
Malaguti F12 Phantom-Dead, Suzuki AY50- Dead, NRG power DD LQ, CBR125.
*33 BHP restriction up on 10/12/14* Current bikes/car: SV 650 S/ MKIV GOLF
Guide to pass your test with no lessons!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:36 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
If it's been standing a long time the clutch might be stuck. Get it running, give it a good shove down the road, hop on and drop into first. If you don't stall it right away you should be able to free the clutch by holding the lever in and getting smartly on and off the throttle. Bear in mind that if you don't manage to free the clutch you're going to have to jiggle it into neutral before it will roll to a stop.


Yes. Remember you have a kill switch if you can't get it into neutral.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jaffa90
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:05 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

"""""it has been standing for over a year.""""
I suspect incorrect engine oil in the first place.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:11 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
"""""it has been standing for over a year.""""
I suspect incorrect engine oil in the first place.


Why?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

RhynoCZ
Super Spammer



Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:23 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had sticking clutch on the ZX7R, if the bike was not in use for a long period of time (the winter break), it glued the clutch plates together. It was so bad, that there was no slippage at all, it was constantly engaged, regardless of me pulling in the clutch lever. If you started the engine and tried to put it in gear, the bike would jump and stall. For that reason I always had to start the engine in neutral, pump the clutch lever a few times, and that usually did the job just fine.

Once I got the clutch disengaged, it was alright. The clutch plates and springs were brand new, so that might have contributed to the issue, or the previous owner, who changed the plates and springs, messed something up.

Now the MZ 150 has also sticking clutch, always when cold, the bike slightely pulls forward, when in gear with the clutch disengaged. Everything is set up properly, I have no idea why this happens. Once you're riding it and the engine gets hot, this issue is none present.
____________________
'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:43 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Used to happen on the GPZ500. I used to start it on the mainstand, stand over it, pull the clutch in and select first. The wheel would spin up, then I'd stand on the back brake to stop the wheel. It would sometimes stall out a couple of times before freeing off.

No mainstand on a virago so looks like Pete.s way of getting it rolling then selecting first would be in order. I'd probably modify it by getting it moving at 5-10mph then pulling in the clutch and stopping sharply.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Clutchy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:50 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this doesn't look right?

Tried what you guys said but it didn't seem to work, I think I could have a bigger problem here, I've pulled the boot away from the shaft and saw this:

https://i.imgur.com/L93YZJs.jpg


and


https://i.imgur.com/WFrBNVk.jpg
____________________
Malaguti F12 Phantom-Dead, Suzuki AY50- Dead, NRG power DD LQ, CBR125.
*33 BHP restriction up on 10/12/14* Current bikes/car: SV 650 S/ MKIV GOLF
Guide to pass your test with no lessons!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:59 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still lay the bike on it's side and dismantle the clutch drum. The drive shaft may look manky but ths not stopping the wheel from disengaging from the engine.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:03 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutchy wrote:
Well this doesn't look right?

Tried what you guys said but it didn't seem to work, I think I could have a bigger problem here, I've pulled the boot away from the shaft and saw this:

https://i.imgur.com/L93YZJs.jpg


and


https://i.imgur.com/WFrBNVk.jpg


https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/l/yam/50043704f8700209bc78c3a0/1994-virago-535-xv535f-parts

If you look at rear arm suspension diagram in the above. Part 8 is a rubber bush. I'm not sure that flange, if it is on the swing arm, should be connected to the engine.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:11 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://cdn.boats.net/diagram/yamaha/MCY/1994/XV535F/IMAGES/REAR_ARM_SUSPENSION.png

and

https://www.totalparts.nl/picture/boonstra/000000117528-1.jpg
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:36 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
jaffa90 wrote:
"""""it has been standing for over a year.""""
I suspect incorrect engine oil in the first place.


Why?


Because why look at the simplest most obvious solution when you can overthink it. Laughing

'Tis Jaffa's M.O.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jaffa90
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:58 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
jaffa90 wrote:
"""""it has been standing for over a year.""""
I suspect incorrect engine oil in the first place.


Why?


People come on here for advice, i give advice after nearly 50 years of experience with bikes, you mostly question advice on here and give very little.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

temeluchus
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:11 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:

People come on here for advice, i give advice after nearly 50 years of experience with bikes, you mostly question advice on here and give very little.


Thinking
____________________
Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:17 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So now jaffa will explain to the class why the "wrong" engine oil would cause the clutch to fail to disengage?

Back on topic, I can't think the drive shaft thing is the issue either. It's AN issue but not THE issue. If you can push the bike around in neutral, then it's free to rotate.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

RhynoCZ
Super Spammer



Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:31 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
... nearly 50 years of experience with bikes, ...


Doing something long enough doesn't make you an expert. Wink
____________________
'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Clutchy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:18 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way I can see that it would be related to the oil is that when I serviced it (before I attempted to turn it on) the oil came out in lumps and was discolored. Maybe water got in and rusted the clutch till it stuck?

The oil filter was grim too. Please bare in mind I was not able to warm the oil up before draining.

So I shall whip the clutch cover off tonight (I assume I need to drain the engine oil?) and then what would you advise I do?

Once again thanks for all your help.
____________________
Malaguti F12 Phantom-Dead, Suzuki AY50- Dead, NRG power DD LQ, CBR125.
*33 BHP restriction up on 10/12/14* Current bikes/car: SV 650 S/ MKIV GOLF
Guide to pass your test with no lessons!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

RhynoCZ
Super Spammer



Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:28 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you lay the bike down, you won't have to drain the oil, but as the previous oil was awful, I'd drain this one as well. Also replace the filter again. All the dirt, metal particles and oil deposits that were in the engine are now diluted with the new oil, so it's already contaminated. Thumbs Up
____________________
'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:34 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutchy wrote:


So I shall whip the clutch cover off tonight (I assume I need to drain the engine oil?) and then what would you advise I do?


If you lean it far enough over to the left, you will probably be able to remove the cover without draining the oil. Mind you, if it was that manky and you've run the engine a bit, treating the current fill as a flush isn't a bad plan. In which case drain and replace.

So yes, clutch cover off. Take the clutch plates out, give them a clean (I'd give them a sluice off in a bowl of paraffin then wipe dry with a lint free rag) then put them back again.

Inspect the clutch basket for deep notches (slight notching is ok, if in doubt, post pics).

With most clutches, you just undo 5 or 6 bolts arranged in a circle with a spring under them and lift the pressure plate off, the clutch plates then slide out. Pay attention to the order you remove them. If you're worried about putting something back together, take lots of photos as you dismantle it.

While they are out, you can check the free spring length and friction plate thickness is within tolerance (it'll be in your workshop manual). If not, now would be a good time to replace them.

Take care not to over-tighten the pressure plate bolts when re-assembling, they go into alloy and you can easily strip/crack the casting.

You will need a new clutch cover gasket.

The most time consuming part of this job is scraping the old gasket off. Stripping and reassembling a clutch taskes about 10 minutes. Removing a paper gasket that's been on there since the mid 90's can take a couple of hours.

EDIT: You can also check the slipping (metal) plates aren't warped by putting them on a sheet of glass and checking they don't rock. If they are super mucky or glazed up, you can clean them off by sticking a sheet of fine wet and dry paper to a sheet of glass with water then scrubbing the plates on it in a side-to-side motion. Rinse well after so you don't get abrasives off the paper in your engine (I use hot soapy water then dry them and spray over with WD40 to stop flash-rust).
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:06 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lumpy oil isn't a good sign and if the discolouring was brown or yellow that's a bad sign too.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

jaffa90
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:40 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
jaffa90 wrote:
... nearly 50 years of experience with bikes, ...


Doing something long enough doesn't make you an expert. Wink


I`m no expert, if i was i would be a guru earning money.

I have had bikes laid up (oil in plug holes) for 12 months through being banned or illness and never had a clutch drag after warming the engine up with the clutch pulled in.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:23 - 09 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:

I have had bikes laid up (oil in plug holes) for 12 months through being banned or illness and never had a clutch drag after warming the engine up with the clutch pulled in.


Well I've had one do it after sitting in a dry lockup for a fortnight with motoul semi-synthetic in it that had been changed within the previous couple of months.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:25 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
People come on here for advice, i give advice after nearly 50 years of experience with bikes, you mostly question advice on here and give very little.


This problem was pretty much covered by everyone else so I had nothing to add to it.
I always question bad/useless advice and inevitably the person offering it cannot answer. Stopping bad advice is just as important as giving the correct advice.

HTH Thumbs Up
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Clutchy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:42 - 26 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

Took the bike to the mechanics where I got him to put a brand new clutch on the bike and check everything over.

Once I got the bike back, I took it out for a ride and after 10 minutes or so the bike was a bit smokey, coming from the engine area/downpipes.

Now I thought this was the wraps on the downpipes drying off where it had been sat etc.

15 minutes on the bike dies, just cuts out at the lights, I tried to turn it over to start it and it was like the battery had died.

I pushed it to a petrol station just incase that was the reason and it took 8 liters.

Got a jump start and after struggling to turn over it got running and was ok if you held the throttle above idle.

Drive 30 seconds down the road in 3rd gear doing 30ish mph and as I roll of the throttle the whole bike dies and the rear wheel locks.

Pulled over and I couldn't get it to turn over, the lights were bright so I'm not 100% convinced the battery was flat, I think something else is going on.

I was to burn this bike already, only positive is the riding position is cool Shocked
____________________
Malaguti F12 Phantom-Dead, Suzuki AY50- Dead, NRG power DD LQ, CBR125.
*33 BHP restriction up on 10/12/14* Current bikes/car: SV 650 S/ MKIV GOLF
Guide to pass your test with no lessons!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 186 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.20 Sec - Server Load: 0.69 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 144.15 Kb