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Datatool 3 series - fule pump not priming!!

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AndyJay
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Joined: 11 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Datatool 3 series - fule pump not priming!! Reply with quote

Hi all
I know many of you have problems with Datatool's series 3 alarm system and I'm no exception. My alarm is always going off and to stop that, I have to 'disable' the nudge sensor using the fob.
However, I now have an intermittent problem with the fuel pump not priming when the ignition key is turned on.
Sometimes it primes, but mostly it doesn't.
My question is, could this fuel pump issue be connected to the 'faulty' alarm?
Anyone else experienced similar?

Many Thanks
Andy
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Re: Datatool 3 series - fule pump not priming!! Reply with quote

AndyJay wrote:
Hi all
I know many of you have problems with Datatool's series 3 alarm system and I'm no exception. My alarm is always going off and to stop that, I have to 'disable' the nudge sensor using the fob.
However, I now have an intermittent problem with the fuel pump not priming when the ignition key is turned on.
Sometimes it primes, but mostly it doesn't.
My question is, could this fuel pump issue be connected to the 'faulty' alarm?
Anyone else experienced similar?

Many Thanks
Andy
Your model of bike is famous for that problem isn't it?
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had one of the early datatool alarms .. the internal battery failed .. this caused problems .. I junked the piece of sh1t in the bin.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had no problems with a System 3 for over 10 years until the internal battery inevitably failed. I couldn't get a replacement battery so I bypassed the alarm using info available on the web. It was pretty easy and you don't need to break into the loom.

However my observation has been that everyone immediately suspects an alarm fault when the bike starts playing up but more often than not it is something else. Do the usual investigations as if there was no alarm, and when you've eliminated everything else you can start to suspect the System 3.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's more than likely the relay for the fuel pump immobiliser circuit failing. Get in there and bypass it before it leaves you stranded.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I bypassed the alarm using info available on the web.

https://i.imgur.com/j0G3Zzd.png
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I bypassed the alarm using info available on the web.

https://i.imgur.com/j0G3Zzd.png

Embarassed
It was my own bike, honest. It is shockingly easy to do. In fairness it takes a while and special tools to get into the case, and unless you're the owner it'll likely be wailing like a banshee throughout. I know you know the website, I'm just wary of broadcasting it. I'm surprised there are any System 3s still alive.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

All you need is a battery drill and a few small drill bits. Just make out you're going to drill out the screws and the drill will catch the security pip and snap it off. Sometimes the drill snaps. Once the pip is out use a standard torx bit to remove the screw.

After that, follow the attached PDF to bypass the relays. Just un-plug the big connector to kill the whole alarm and join the pairs of wires in each of the two immobiliser circuits.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I know you know the website, I'm just wary of broadcasting it.

Well, let's keep it between you, me, anyone who can Google, or who reads the post between ours. Shhh!
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AndyJay
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies
Kawasaki Jimbo, I've tested the fuel pump relay by swapping it out but that didn't fix it.
Is there no way of fixing the alarm or is it a case of it's too old?
If I have to, I guess I'll have to bypass it.
I don't want to rip it out.
Shame if I can't fix it.

Andy

Thanks again
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't fix 'em and parts haven't been available for years now. It's not the bike's fuel pump relay that fails it's the little relay inside the alarm that switches the circuit.
I've had two go wrong and I had to rescue Kris when his went wrong too. When I got stranded I talked to a tech at Datatool who said that the liquid can leak out of the ball that senses movement (inside the potting on the board) but I believe at least one of mine was a joint on the board because it would work if you twisted the board slightly.

Do yourself a favour and get it bypassed and disabled before it leaves yo stranded somewhere.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 00:29 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
When I got stranded I talked to a tech at Datatool who said that the liquid can leak out of the ball that senses movement


This is the failure of the nudge sensor.

There are two immobiliser circuits on the system 3 and no guarantee that one of them is used on the fuel pump. In fact I am inclined to say that yours isn't as if it was and the S3 was failing it would happen while you were riding as well.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 05:42 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was Kris that had the failed relay and yes it did pack in whilst he was riding. Wasn't the fuel pump though as his bike was carbed.

Fuel pump not priming is a sign of a fault/not ready condition on the FI system, it need not be wired into the actual fuel pump relay. On a Suzuki for instance, the fuel pump wont prime if the RUN switch is off.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 07:28 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My carbed bike has a fuel pump. And a working System 3.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:22 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

weasley wrote:
My carbed bike has a fuel pump. And a working System 3.

Well, give it 5 minutes.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
However my observation has been that everyone immediately suspects an alarm fault when the bike starts playing up but more often than not it is something else. Do the usual investigations as if there was no alarm, and when you've eliminated everything else you can start to suspect the System 3.


I agree. The S3 hasn't been made in something like 15 years and many are still working perfectly.
People replace laptops more often than they service alarms.

Pete. wrote:
It's more than likely the relay for the fuel pump immobiliser circuit failing. Get in there and bypass it before it leaves you stranded.


It is just as likely to be a worn ignition or kill switch than the alarm.
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supZ
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

I agree. The S3 hasn't been made in something like 15 years and many are still working perfectly.
People replace laptops more often than they service alarms.


Indeed.

My blade's S3 is as old as the bike (14 years) and has worked perfectly since day one.

Worst problem I had turned out to be a dead battery in the fob. (Which the disarm beeps were warning me about, I just didn't look up what the beeps meant for weeks)
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AndyJay
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone - I guess I'll do the bypass this weekend.
The bike did completely cut out recently whilst riding it, but it started up again without issue.
I really don't fancy being left stranded on a solo ride.
Thanks again..........

Andy
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that there are still units working doesn't alter the fact that their failure rate is high. In my case I've had 2 - both failed. Kris had one - failed. A guy on the 'busa site couldn't get his bike started up in the city. I went to look at it - Datatool failed. Several members on here have had them fail.

Anyone need a spare fob to program? I've got a few somewhere. I should hang them on the wall like spitfire pilot swastikas to record dead Datatools.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 00:09 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
The fact that there are still units working doesn't alter the fact that their failure rate is high. In my case I've had 2 - both failed.


Thousands of S3's were sold and again I will point out that they stopped making them over a decade ago.
The failure rate of most electronics is 100% eventually and as I have pointed out previously most people replace their computers more often than their alarms so to say they have a high failure rate is to my mind misleading, everything fails in time.

What they are is way past their expected lifespan.

Whether the one is this thread is on its way out has yet to be shown but to simply blame the alarm is to remove the usual diagnostics to find a problem and could result in someone removing a perfectly functioning alarm.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:33 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
could result in someone removing a perfectly functioning alarm.

Removing it before it leaves you stranded would seem to be the time to do it. Given that every pikey will know how to bypass one by now, I can't imagine they offer much of a detterent to theft.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Removing it before it leaves you stranded would seem to be the time to do it. Given that every pikey will know how to bypass one by now, I can't imagine they offer much of a detterent to theft.


If fitted to the thatcham standard which they all should be then they should be quite hard to get to without setting the alarm off and if removed quickly by simply ripping them out and throwing them away it would need time and some skill to start the bike.

The whole point of an alarm is to slow things down, it will never stop theft. Removing a perfectly working alarm is pointless.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Removing a perfectly working alarm is pointless.

And yet...
sickpup wrote:
The failure rate of most electronics is 100% eventually...

I have always been a defender of the System 3 - the bandwagonners have it that they do and will let you down - mine is 15+ years old and all I have had to do is replace one fob battery once.

However, using your 100% eventual failure rule, I am essentially playing chicken with time. If it will fail one day (and that failure will incapacitate the bike), when does one consider enough is enough and proactively replace/remove it before it fails? It's like a cambelt - you don't wait until they fail until you change them, in many cases you remove a perfectly serviceable cambelt and replace with another one.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

weasley wrote:
However, using your 100% eventual failure rule, I am essentially playing chicken with time. If it will fail one day (and that failure will incapacitate the bike), when does one consider enough is enough and proactively replace/remove it before it fails? It's like a cambelt - you don't wait until they fail until you change them, in many cases you remove a perfectly serviceable cambelt and replace with another one.


You ignition module will also fail eventually, so you'll be changing that as well as getting rid of your alarm then?

Your cambelt/alarm analogy doesn't work. A cambelt going will potentially destroy an engine, an alarm malfunctioning will generally only result in the bike not starting.

<edit>By your other thread I'm guessing this is a CB500, a bike notorious for cam chain tensioner failure and reg/rec failure. As either can incapacitate your bike do you change them on a regular basis just in case?</edit>
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 198 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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