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Nsr125 just purchased with crank case full of mystery fluid

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spitfire123
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Nsr125 just purchased with crank case full of mystery fluid Reply with quote

Nsr 125

Just picked this up , guy said he'd owned it 4 days and was on the way home and it was pissing it down and the bike cut out, he was recoverd home and told by the recovery firm "wet electrics " leave it 2 or 3 days and it will stat.
3 months later I bought it with it still not staring .
Now somthing very worrying , he took the barrel off and took some photos , the crank case was full of liquid a reddish liquid , Now that's either gear oil gushing through the seals or he's been cranking it for hours on end and massively flooded it .
I've added the pic he showed me , surly it's not possible to flood it that bad ?
Btw he said he cleaned it all out and it still dident start ?
What do you lot think it could be ?
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Stoker
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did this guy look even slightly like a pixie, (in which case, your engine is full of unicorn cum) or did he look more like a pikey?

From your inchoherent statement/question, I have to ask....

1) how old are you,
2) do you know anything about bikes?

I ask these questions, not to belittle you, but to know how to ask further questions that may help you seek the knowlege you require.
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G
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Re: Nsr125 just purchased with crank case full of mystery fl Reply with quote

Sounds rather likely to be 2 stroke oil?
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the crank seals are gone, they tend to blow 2T into the gearbox, not the other way around.

2T gear oil isn't normally red. Look at the colour in the sight glass.

Sounds like its flooded. How did you get it home? Did you turn the fuel off? I forgot a couple of times on my race bike when transporting it. It ended up with a crank full of fuel when I unloaded it from the van.
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G
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had red 2 stroke before I'm sure.

I was thinking a leaking stroke system emptying out; but a long time since I've looked at one on the NSR.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
I've had red 2 stroke before I'm sure.

I was thinking a leaking stroke system emptying out; but a long time since I've looked at one on the NSR.


Sure, 2 stroke oil for fuel mixing is often red, but not the gear oil as the OP suspects. One of mine is turning the gear oil red and upping the level. I suspect the RHS crank seal has gone and is allowing fuel into the gearbox. It also blows oil out of the gearbox breather if you thrash it.

Another one of my road TZR's flooded the crank with fuel when stood for a while. The fuel tap on that only has On-Pri-Res, so can't really be turned off. I've fitted quick release connectors to the tank to tap fuel hose.
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please, let's not do this all over again! Very Happy

(Also: Is posting twice in the General Chat section the same as posting once in Workshop? Wink )
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I have had red gearbox oil, and occasionally 2 strokes specify ATF for the gearbox (friends race kart used this) which is also normally red

All the best

Katy
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
I've had red 2 stroke before I'm sure.

I have aswell.

Sounds like it needs stripping and draining so you can start fresh.. small bikes to have problems with at least. Thumbs Up
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 09:15 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to throw a spanner in the works, the NSR works with a geared oil pump that injects oil into the carb when the engine is running.

If the engine is not running I see no reason for two stroke oil to fill the crank case.

If it was running off premix then maybe but you fill the tank with neat petrol and the oil pump adds the oil as it runs, leave the tap on and you'll fill the crank with neat petrol Laughing.

Either way, whats the mystery fluid's viscosity like? Gear oil will be thicker than 2 stroke oil, oil is likely to get into the genny side via a poorly fitted starter motor. Is there any rust in there?
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G
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:
Just to throw a spanner in the works, the NSR works with a geared oil pump that injects oil into the carb when the engine is running.

I was wondering if there could have been a problem with the gear system so it no longer sealed and pretty sure the tank is higher than the carb.

Thinking about it - on a still-in-warranty NSR I had it really badly flooded with petrol - presumably due to sticking float - as it was under warranty I let them deal with it and a couple of others bits while they were at it.
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GT200Fan79
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PostPosted: 10:27 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can the oil pump leak into the gearbox on these engines? If so I'd be checking shaft seals / shaft condition or the seal on the pump itself.
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

gearbox has its own gear oil and is sealed from the bottom end that uses 2 stroke oil.

There are two pipes leading into the oil pump housing, one going to the oil reservoir and the other the carb. Pull both off and blow down one whilst pinching the other?

I would still suggest inspecting the mystry fluid and trying to identify whether it's gearbox or 2 stroke?

I've seen both oils' red (R1 has a crank case full of lovely red engine oil that literally smells good enough to eat?!) but again, gearbox oil will be thicker than 2 stroke at lower temperatures...
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GT200Fan79
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatefreak wrote:
gearbox has its own gear oil and is sealed from the bottom end that uses 2 stroke oil.



Yeah I sort of know how a 2T works Rolling Eyes

The point I'm making is the drive for the oil pump usually comes from somewhere that runs in gearbox oil, either a gearbox shaft or from the primary drive, and therefore there is scope for leakage into the gearbox oil. I don't know what sort of pump the NSR uses but I have a feeling it's like the Suzuki ones where the seal is built into the pump, rather than the Yamaha practice of having the seal on the engine side of the drive shaft.
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking about it, I'm not sure there is scope as the oil pump to leak into the crankcase as it sits quite high and does not pass through the genny cover 🤔.
I have an nsr engine sitting on my garage bench at the moment... can have a look see this eve...


I stand corrected... Looks like Looks sure could!

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj148/m1ck_t/case5.jpg
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
Can the oil pump leak into the gearbox on these engines? If so I'd be checking shaft seals / shaft condition or the seal on the pump itself.


But that doesn't explain the crankcase full of fluid does it?
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally when the crank seal on the gearbox side fails, the gearbox oil gets sucked into the engine, normally producing a lot of smoke,
if there has been catastrophic failure of the seal possibly it could suck a large volume of oil into the crankcase, so first check the oil level.
Also check the coolant level.
After these two checks you should have a clue as to where to go next
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tankie wrote:
Normally when the crank seal on the gearbox side fails, the gearbox oil gets sucked into the engine, normally producing a lot of smoke,
if there has been catastrophic failure of the seal possibly it could suck a large volume of oil into the crankcase, so first check the oil level.
Also check the coolant level.
After these two checks you should have a clue as to where to go next


One if my road TZR's is doing it the other way. 2T contaminating gear oil.

The best way of testing I suppose, would be to clamp the breather, remove the gearbox filler and cover with your thumb. Rev it and see if it pressurises.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a seal failed on the pump
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 10:22 - 14 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tankie wrote:
You have a seal failed on the pump


How would that fill the crank - The pump is gearbox side isn't it?
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spitfire123
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 17 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right
Had the head off , barrelll off
Again there is fluid in the crank
It would seem to be coolant contamination to me .
Checked the gear oil level seems okay .
Drained it , was fresh .
Replaced it .
Now waiting on a top end gasket set , put all the top end in my wash tank and got all the crap and old gaskets off ready for the new ones .
The coolant was slightly low but it's been standing for 5 months and someone has tried doing the top end gaskets quite recently .
Thanks for all your inputs .
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spitfire123
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 17 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Stoker"]Did this guy look even slightly like a pixie, (in which case, your engine is full of unicorn cum) or did he look more like a pikey?

From your inchoherent statement/question, I have to ask....

1) how old are you,
2) do you know anything about bikes?

I ask these questions, not to belittle you, but to know how to ask further questions that may help you seek the knowlege you require.[/quote/]

I do indeed .

Just putting the feelers out there because this was a bit of a weird one for me as it was also strange !
However if you look at the post above I would think a leaky head gasket .
Hopefully anyway !
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spitfire123
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 17 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right
Had the head off , barrelll off
Again there is fluid in the crank
It would seem to be coolant contamination to me .
Checked the gear oil level seems okay .
Drained it , was fresh .
Replaced it .
Now waiting on a top end gasket set , put all the top end in my wash tank and got all the crap and old gaskets off ready for the new ones .
The coolant was slightly low but it's been standing for 5 months and someone has tried doing the top end gaskets quite recently .
Thanks for all your inputs .
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 08:38 - 18 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done, let us know the final result
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spitfire123
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 18 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tankie wrote:
Well done, let us know the final result


Just waiting on the anetha gasket kit to turn up .
Would you guys be putting the red high temp gasket sealent on the new gaskets for good measure?
Cheers
Spit
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