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Thoughts on RyanAir

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RyanAir is...
...fond of extorting money out of the poorest people.
12%
 12%  [ 8 ]
...a great service to allow poor people to travel more.
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
...in breach of the magna carta by punishing fellow citizens (with punitive charges)
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
...a perfectly excellent airline as long as you obey their clearly described rules.
10%
 10%  [ 7 ]
...merely the natural progression of this race to the bottom.
24%
 24%  [ 16 ]
...too damn cheap but to use. Grudgingly. Through gritted teeth. And anxiety about charges.
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
... 2 or more of the above.
16%
 16%  [ 11 ]
... literally all of that. Good and bad. Ryanair is Ryanair. WYSIWYG
27%
 27%  [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 65

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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Thoughts on RyanAir Reply with quote

So, I was already planning to start this thread... and then the devious parasites went and initiated their plan to ruin up to 400,000 people's holidays.

Excellent.

Well, anyway, not leading at all, but how do you feel about this particular business.

Poll options are loose attempts at covering the main opinions I have found on them.

Feel free to rant or defend, both are equally interesting.

Have you ever been extorted by them? What do you think about their business model?
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t121anf
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why anyone would book with Ryanair is beyond me.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shot down is what the Irish Bastirts want. SHOT OUT OF THE FEKIN SKY.
AIAA (Anti-Irish Airline Artillery)

I never voted because they are cnuts.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

t121anf wrote:
Why anyone would book with Ryanair is beyond me.

This a million times.
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

VILE

You forgot that option in the poll.

I'd rather travel by cattle truck, or, in the event of a lack of cattle truck, stay at home.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You pays your money, you make your choice.

I have little sympathy for people who decide to book with a cheap operator who are then stunned to discover that their contracts with pilots are so poor that they are all defecting to rival airlines. Of course, Ryanair are refusing to concede that is actually the case.

If I am going to go budget I go with EasyJet. Ryanair is an absolute last resort, as is Flybe.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

t121anf wrote:
Why anyone would book with Ryanair is beyond me.


Sometimes they are the only choice to a destination. Having said that they are fucking awful and I've made the active decision to drive the 800Km journey rather than fly with Ryan Air.
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TbirdX
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only used them once. No problems so can't complain really, but I'd be right royally fucked off if they cancelled my flight at short notice.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play by their rules and be very careful to follow their t&c's and you've got very cheap flights.

They make no secret about just how expensive their extra charges can be and it's well known that they're the most basic of all the cheap shitty no frills airlines.

People know what they're letting themselves in for if they fly with Ryanair so I've little sympathy for those daily mail sad faces with their stories about being fucked over by them.

Cancelling flights is crappy but it sounds like a very Ryanair thing to do IMO. Laughing
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Ste says, know what you are getting. You don't book National Express and expect the Orient Express.... Learn to sleep from 'emergency demonstration' to the warming little fanfare at the end and you don't feel a thing.

As for cancelling flights, it is indeed a shitty thing to do and it shows what happens when a Co. operates with no slack in its system.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the 'know what you are getting' and you should be protected with the cancelled flights by getting new ones and accommodation paid by Ryanair.

The problem seems to be that the people stranded abroad get to the airport to find their flights cancelled and no one there from Ryanair to help them. If you have just had a holiday, spent all your money as you have a flight home booked it is totally unfair to be left to fend for yourselves, maybe with kids and no money for accommodation or new flights.

Saying all that, I hope Mr. O'Leary gets screwed into the ground Thumbs Up
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://s20.postimg.org/750qb98p9/Drawing_4.jpg

Sorry. Rolling Eyes
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:47 - 19 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Learn to sleep from 'emergency demonstration' to the warming little fanfare at the end and you don't feel a thing.

You mean you don't buy the mid-flight scratchcard? Shocked Folded arms
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Diggs wrote:
Learn to sleep from 'emergency demonstration' to the warming little fanfare at the end and you don't feel a thing.

You mean you don't buy the mid-flight scratchcard? Shocked Folded arms


Is the prize a parachute and an open door?
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

t121anf wrote:
Why anyone would book with Ryanair is beyond me.

For any flight that lasts about an hour (Liverpool to Dublin, or Limoges) I prefer to pay approx £30 return.

Why would I want to pay more?

If going anywhere a bit further away then yeah, I'll cough for the comfies.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 06:45 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the free market performing exactly as it should. Providing (or not providing) the service that people are (or aren't) prepared to pay for.

Those who can afford it can simply buy alternative flites and then sort it out later. Those who can't can earn their way back by doing favours for tired travellers in the toilets at Barajas International.

Free market.
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arry
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PostPosted: 07:52 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had used them a couple of times and were alright - can deal with the herding and the constant upselling fine right enough.

However then things turned to pot. Used them to get to a meeting in Belfast and they bumped me from my morning flight as they'd over-subscribed it. Don't worry they said, we'll get you on the next one. Fabulous - I'll only be 4 hours late for my 2 hour meeting and if I'm really quick in building a time machine I might be able to scarper across the airport fast enough to get my booked flight home, which takes off 10 minutes before my new flight out there lands on the deck.

They didn't seem to understand or give a toss about this 'slight hiccup'.

Now you could argue you get what you pay for, but I don't think anyone expects to be put in a situation where their entire journey is a write off before it even starts.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 10:22 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would prefer to travel half as much and use a better airline.

Never flown Ryanair. Never plan to.

I don't have a problem that they exist. They don't pretend to be anything other than cheap transport that treats its customers as self-loading freight. I choose not to use their service but others are welcome to.

My problem is that once decent airlines like BA are now offering Ryanair levels of service in an attempt to compete, but without matching Ryanair prices. BA have such massive overheads if they think they can compete with Ryanair on price, sell your BA shares now - they're in the process of doing an M&S.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Had used them a couple of times and were alright - can deal with the herding and the constant upselling fine right enough.

However then things turned to pot. Used them to get to a meeting in Belfast and they bumped me from my morning flight as they'd over-subscribed it. Don't worry they said, we'll get you on the next one. Fabulous - I'll only be 4 hours late for my 2 hour meeting and if I'm really quick in building a time machine I might be able to scarper across the airport fast enough to get my booked flight home, which takes off 10 minutes before my new flight out there lands on the deck.

They didn't seem to understand or give a toss about this 'slight hiccup'.

Now you could argue you get what you pay for, but I don't think anyone expects to be put in a situation where their entire journey is a write off before it even starts.



I think this is the crux of my distaste for the typical response of "You get what you pay for. Everyone knows they are shit, why act surprised when they are shitty"...

I expected low legroom, constant upselling, fear about handluggage sizes and to put my health at risk from dehydration due to their war on free fluids. I got a two hour flight, meh.

However, the fact they make 28 percent of their revenue from extorting their passengers at the gate, upsets me immensely.

Especially as the large proportion of their customers are not in a position to afford their charming extortion at the gate.

"Late" Check in fees, for instance. You must check in online, 4 hours in advance (but no more than 4 days before, unless you want to pay 4 quid), and print it in good ink or have their 3rd party app installed on your phone (subject to airport limitations)... or else they feel perfectly within their rights to charge each member of your booking 50 quid.

Jet2, a similar low cost carrier, would charge 17.50 admin fee for the booking (ie a family would pay that one time)... a fair reflection of liquidated costs incurred.

They have a fractionally smaller hand baggage allowance on flights than any other, just to try to catch you out at the gate for another 50 quid.

They are sulking about drinking at airports now... Why? Well yes, the airports have unlicensed bars that get them hammered, which is a problem. Yes, they would prefer to serve alcohol onboard for many ponds...

... but the main thing is Ryanair has removed all its airport staff and now uses a company called Swissport to manage its flights... the staff of which do not turn away drunk passengers.

So Ryanair wants to change national law for 'Elf and Saffty', but largely it is because the cheap fuckers have outsourced all their most important roles.

A cynical man would suggest the very reason they outsourced them is, as I experienced, "Please take it up with Ryanair, it's nothing to do with us, now, if you want to board the flight... cash or card?"

This current spat is just another dual one finger salute to their customers. The type of experience Arry and myself have experienced before, now on a massive scale.

I dislike flying TigerAirways, Easyjet, Airasia and all the other low cost carriers. They all have little tricks to recover selling at a loss, but they usually involve clearly stated upselling and commodifying services you take for granted on real airlines.

Ryanair are the only airline that seek to punitively charge their customers, and I will genuinely never fly with them again, because it's all fun and games until you fall in to one of their deliberate traps. Their business model is to trap their customers, pure and simple.

I very rarely blacklist or boycott companies. Ryanair will be one of the first exceptions, on the logical reason that the small amount of money saved is usually regained by them somewhere... and the flights are in inconvenient places, at inconvenient times, and flipping uncomfortable at all times.

I started this thread to see if there were any people on here pushing the "They're so cheap they allowed me to finally see Europe" type defense of their model, but even that seems fairly muffled (as Easyjet and other less odious companies offer similar services).

Also, really surprised the British attitude to these people is so unsympathetic...
"You deserve to be stranded in some random country with your whole family after your one holiday your shitty minimum wage job allows for... because you flew Ryanair, what do you expect?!"
Just because they write something unpleasant in their T&C, doesn't make it legally (or morally) correct.
As put in the initial poll, from the Magna Carta... One citizen cannot punish another.
If their fees do not realistically reflect the liquidated losses incurred by the company, they are a punitive charge, which makes them unenforceable.

There has been serious talk about class action on the matter, but that died off for no obvious or suspicious reasons at all.

These practices are a move backwards, and I am slightly embarrassed that the British people collectively have tolerated them.

Vote with your wallets, stop volunteering yourself in to an environment such as this. "Only idiots get scammed", right up until it happens to you.

*All of the above is my opinion, based on my interpretation of their observed business practices.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
As put in the initial poll, from the Magna Carta... One citizen cannot punish another.

[citation needed]

I like the bit about heirs not paying interest on money borrowed from die Juden until they come of age, but I'm not sure about what parts deals with villein-to-villein distraints.
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vile.

As I said earlier and reinforced by SW comments above.

We recently started flying with a company called Blue Air. Admittedly, they are nowhere as big as Ryanair but they fly a route we use a lot.

Blue Air fares are definitely in the economy class but on their flights, (four and half hours for us) included in your very reasonable fare, are drinks, an in-flight meal, more drinks and a snack. They also give you blankets and pillows. We've not had a problem so far with Blue Air and never paid more than £90.

Ryanair are increasing the number of flights to Cyprus next year.

There is absolutely no way we would ever fly with them, no matter how cheap.

Michael O'Leary can shove his planes right up his hairy, Irish arse. Pikey Confused

Edit: My point is that a low volume carrier like Blue Air can cost in excellent service yet Pikeyair's model of stripping out costs while surreptitiously increasing non-fare extra charges has led to a reduction in already poor standards. Blue Air run on a shoe string and are still as good as BA used to be.

That's it I'm off to pack Cool
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:
As put in the initial poll, from the Magna Carta... One citizen cannot punish another.

[citation needed]

I like the bit about heirs not paying interest on money borrowed from die Juden until they come of age, but I'm not sure about what parts deals with villein-to-villein distraints.


Quote:
* (10) If anyone who has borrowed a sum of money from Jews dies before the debt has been repaid, his heir shall pay no interest on the debt for so long as he remains under age, irrespective of whom he holds his lands. If such a debt falls into the hands of the Crown, it will take nothing except the principal sum specified in the bond.


Oh history, you so racis.

Re: Citation, I was discussing this with a lawyer and they cited it. This is the translation I am skimming through, and these may be some relevant clauses.

Quote:
(20) For a trivial offence, a free man shall be fined only in proportion to the degree of his offence, and for a serious offence correspondingly, but not so heavily as to deprive him of his livelihood. In the same way, a merchant shall be spared his merchandise, and a villein the implements of his husbandry, if they fall upon the mercy of a royal court. None of these fines shall be imposed except by the assessment on oath of reputable men of the neighbourhood.

(21) Earls and barons shall be fined only by their equals, and in proportion to the gravity of their offence.

+ (39) No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgment of his equals or by the law of the land.


Which probably implies 21 is the most important to this;

Quote:
Proportionality

Another principle included in Magna Carta which continues to play an important role in our system of criminal justice today is that of proportionality. Clause 20 provided that “for a trivial offence a free man shall be fined only in proportion to the degree of his offence, and for a serious offence correspondingly…” and Clause 21 went on to provide for earls and barons that they too would only “be fined by their equals, and in proportion to the gravity of their offence.”


I will look in to it some more, but I have heard the interpretation "One man cannot punish another" before as well. I have to see some solicitors in the near future, so will try to drop it in to conversation some how.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the PR for you, Mr O'Leary.

Build yourself a nice big brand. Get some nice pictures of yourself playing with a toy plane. Lose $60 million minimum, and the small shred of credibility you had left.

I am John's complete lack of sympathy.

Thumbs Up
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Codezombie
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts?

"Ryanair - Stress Testing the structural integrity of aircraft landing gear since 1994."

How they have not managed to pancake an aircraft into the runway is still something of a mystery.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 20 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
arry wrote:
Had used them a couple of times and were alright - can deal with the herding and the constant upselling fine right enough.

However then things turned to pot. Used them to get to a meeting in Belfast and they bumped me from my morning flight as they'd over-subscribed it. Don't worry they said, we'll get you on the next one. Fabulous - I'll only be 4 hours late for my 2 hour meeting and if I'm really quick in building a time machine I might be able to scarper across the airport fast enough to get my booked flight home, which takes off 10 minutes before my new flight out there lands on the deck.

They didn't seem to understand or give a toss about this 'slight hiccup'.

Now you could argue you get what you pay for, but I don't think anyone expects to be put in a situation where their entire journey is a write off before it even starts.



I think this is the crux of my distaste for the typical response of "You get what you pay for. Everyone knows they are shit, why act surprised when they are shitty"...

I expected low legroom, constant upselling, fear about handluggage sizes and to put my health at risk from dehydration due to their war on free fluids. I got a two hour flight, meh.

However, the fact they make 28 percent of their revenue from extorting their passengers at the gate, upsets me immensely.

Especially as the large proportion of their customers are not in a position to afford their charming extortion at the gate.

"Late" Check in fees, for instance. You must check in online, 4 hours in advance (but no more than 4 days before, unless you want to pay 4 quid), and print it in good ink or have their 3rd party app installed on your phone (subject to airport limitations)... or else they feel perfectly within their rights to charge each member of your booking 50 quid.

Jet2, a similar low cost carrier, would charge 17.50 admin fee for the booking (ie a family would pay that one time)... a fair reflection of liquidated costs incurred.

They have a fractionally smaller hand baggage allowance on flights than any other, just to try to catch you out at the gate for another 50 quid.

They are sulking about drinking at airports now... Why? Well yes, the airports have unlicensed bars that get them hammered, which is a problem. Yes, they would prefer to serve alcohol onboard for many ponds...

... but the main thing is Ryanair has removed all its airport staff and now uses a company called Swissport to manage its flights... the staff of which do not turn away drunk passengers.

So Ryanair wants to change national law for 'Elf and Saffty', but largely it is because the cheap fuckers have outsourced all their most important roles.

A cynical man would suggest the very reason they outsourced them is, as I experienced, "Please take it up with Ryanair, it's nothing to do with us, now, if you want to board the flight... cash or card?"

This current spat is just another dual one finger salute to their customers. The type of experience Arry and myself have experienced before, now on a massive scale.

I dislike flying TigerAirways, Easyjet, Airasia and all the other low cost carriers. They all have little tricks to recover selling at a loss, but they usually involve clearly stated upselling and commodifying services you take for granted on real airlines.

Ryanair are the only airline that seek to punitively charge their customers, and I will genuinely never fly with them again, because it's all fun and games until you fall in to one of their deliberate traps. Their business model is to trap their customers, pure and simple.

I very rarely blacklist or boycott companies. Ryanair will be one of the first exceptions, on the logical reason that the small amount of money saved is usually regained by them somewhere... and the flights are in inconvenient places, at inconvenient times, and flipping uncomfortable at all times.

I started this thread to see if there were any people on here pushing the "They're so cheap they allowed me to finally see Europe" type defense of their model, but even that seems fairly muffled (as Easyjet and other less odious companies offer similar services).

Also, really surprised the British attitude to these people is so unsympathetic...
"You deserve to be stranded in some random country with your whole family after your one holiday your shitty minimum wage job allows for... because you flew Ryanair, what do you expect?!"
Just because they write something unpleasant in their T&C, doesn't make it legally (or morally) correct.
As put in the initial poll, from the Magna Carta... One citizen cannot punish another.
If their fees do not realistically reflect the liquidated losses incurred by the company, they are a punitive charge, which makes them unenforceable.

There has been serious talk about class action on the matter, but that died off for no obvious or suspicious reasons at all.

These practices are a move backwards, and I am slightly embarrassed that the British people collectively have tolerated them.

Vote with your wallets, stop volunteering yourself in to an environment such as this. "Only idiots get scammed", right up until it happens to you.

*All of the above is my opinion, based on my interpretation of their observed business practices.


Well this has persuaded my to never fly with Ryanair, so at least the 'free market' is doing it's thing.

I agree it's absurd that people are taking the mindset of, "It's your own fault for flying with them." Hardly a socially conscious thing to say really.

I read an article about dangerously high levels of public debt creeping back into society, and the comments on there were similar. "It's the individual's fault for not being wise with their spending."

But the thing is, if we're going to put everything down to the individual, then the end goal is anarchy, where everything is down to your own personal choices. But we have laws and regulations to stop these sorts of things, and law is nothing other than an enforcement of morality. So it seems odd that people don't think about how regulation may prevent people from being screwed over by the likes of ryanair.
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