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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:31 - 23 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
Russia who, aside from being nuclear armed already

And NorKor isn't? Eh?

Never mind missiles, they could put a bomb on a submarine and sail it right into any port in the world.


Lord Percy wrote:
I'm in China, where people are more concerned about the US military THAAD system which has recently been set up in the Korean peninsula.

Why are they concerned about Korea having a missile defence system?

Have you tried explaining to them why they're victims of the right wing press fake news?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:26 - 23 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Maybe as a middle aged man

Yet I'm still in my twenties Doh!

Lord Percy wrote:
NK is only the big hot scary rising enemy who deserves to be disappeared, because NK is small and insignificant enough to be openly talked about and threatened as an enemy without risking WW3.

The thing's it isn't exactly new (the N.Korea situation), I realise they've ramped up their missile programme but we've been here before. It might die down again once N.Korea feel they've got enough attention.

Iran are at it (again) as well: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41371309
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 23 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
M.C wrote:

Yet I'm still in my twenties Doh!


And desperately clinging onto childhood! Wink

Well it's preferable to being a bitter old man Wink Anyhoo are we gonna discuss politics or continually insult each other? Jewlio's probably feeling really left out Crying or Very sad
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 01:16 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
US bombers stage North Korea show of force

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-41375302
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 02:01 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

I also believe they can intercept the missiles from NK, but they know the trajectory so leave them.


That is what they want you to think.
THAAD is not the be all and end all in missile defence systems. The US knows this as do NK, therefore the US will not employ THAAD until armegeddon is breaking out and NK will keep lobbing missiles in the hope that the US employs THAAD.
If THAAD were to be employed and successful in bringing down a missile NK would have to look at other aggression methods as lobbing missiles would obviously be futile, should it fail the US would be the global laughing stock.


I don't often agree with mpd72 but one country lobbing missiles over another is not the done thing, even if said missile lands in the sea. Everybody, especially us peace loving, tree hugging, snowflakes should find that repugnant.

Your earlier diagram shows perfectly the trajectory of both missiles over Japan, the arc describes how it goes up and down, the gray shadow lines show which bits of Japan they passed over. Fairly easy to understand, no?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 04:47 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mentalboy wrote:
M.C wrote:

I also believe they can intercept the missiles from NK, but they know the trajectory so leave them.


That is what they want you to think.
THAAD is not the be all and end all in missile defence systems. The US knows this as do NK, therefore the US will not employ THAAD until armegeddon is breaking out and NK will keep lobbing missiles in the hope that the US employs THAAD.
If THAAD were to be employed and successful in bringing down a missile NK would have to look at other aggression methods as lobbing missiles would obviously be futile, should it fail the US would be the global laughing stock.


I don't often agree with mpd72 but one country lobbing missiles over another is not the done thing, even if said missile lands in the sea. Everybody, especially us peace loving, tree hugging, snowflakes should find that repugnant.

Your earlier diagram shows perfectly the trajectory of both missiles over Japan, the arc describes how it goes up and down, the gray shadow lines show which bits of Japan they passed over. Fairly easy to understand, no?

So you're trolling Trump with the range of your missiles, which direction exactly would you fire them? In the direction of South Korea where they're already permanently aimed at each other?

Also read the text around the picture Wink A country invaded another (not for the first time), the whole world saw no threat in flying civilians over an active warzone, and then when the inevitable happened the perpetrators got away with it scot-free.

Yet we're outraged at a fat kid giving his best Dr Evil impression?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 08:28 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
JonB wrote:


I think our (UK) leaders would do well and build some much needed goodwill around the world if we stood up at the UN and just stated “look guys, calm the fuck down - US/SK stop getting involved with provocative military exercise and NK stop your nuclear weapons programme”.


Well the Ruskies have got the jump on us for that https://www.rt.com/news/404252-lavrov-new-york-unga/
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:47 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:
US bombers stage North Korea show of force

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-41375302

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/960/cpsprodpb/AABD/production/_97990734_mediaitem97990732.jpg

The front row there are the biggest, healthiest, most well-fed looking proles that they could herd together.

What if we treated North Korea as a humanitarian crisis, rather than a military one? Flooded it with aid, bombed it with food packages?

Starving the masses until they revolt clearly isn't working. It might be time for something new. Levis and Smells Like Teen Spirit brought down the Soviet Union.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 09:30 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some SKs already do by sending balloons with packs of money and DVDs and memory cards with information on the world outside NK dangling beneath them to screw with the NK regime.
Probably not very effective on a small scale but scaled up would probably do more than sanctions.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Some SKs already do by sending balloons with packs of money and DVDs and memory cards with information on the world outside NK dangling beneath them to screw with the NK regime.
Probably not very effective on a small scale but scaled up would probably do more than sanctions.


It would just result in more oppression. If you pick up one of these parcels you are a traitor and will be killed. As will your immediate family. How many are going to take the risk.

I used to sail into the USSR (Murmansk) before it collapsed. I doubt it was anything like as 'big brother' as NK but the people were still fearful of the authorities and very few would talk to us. We were only allowed in certain areas and the threats if we went anywhere else were very real.

You really do not have a clue what it is like to live under an oppressive regime.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:

It would just result in more oppression. If you pick up one of these parcels you are a traitor and will be killed. As will your immediate family. How many are going to take the risk.

I used to sail into the USSR (Murmansk) before it collapsed. I doubt it was anything like as 'big brother' as NK but the people were still fearful of the authorities and very few would talk to us. We were only allowed in certain areas and the threats if we went anywhere else were very real.

You really do not have a clue what it is like to live under an oppressive regime.


Im sure the lower echelons would be very wary of any contact with the stuff but there's no way those packeges are just left to rot. Someone pjcks them up and when it's small scale the regime can probably deal with it. Corruption is everywhere though including in somewhere like NK and the more temptation the more corruption and the more damage done.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 09:10 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
any small amount of military work from the locals is an instant horror.


Big things come in small packages!



https://media.salon.com/2017/03/nuclear-explosion-1280x940.png
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fizzoid wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
any small amount of military work from the locals is an instant horror.


Big things come in small packages!



https://media.salon.com/2017/03/nuclear-explosion-1280x940.png


So what you're saying is NK having a handful of nukes is instantly more of a horror than any other country having them.

This is actually another aspect to the absurdity of how people react to the North Korea 'crisis'. For some reason it's perfectly fine for a select few 'important' countries to have nukes. They have authority and know how to handle such things. But NK having them is a massive risk because the entire leadership is clearly too stupid and crazy to know the dangers of inciting nuclear war?
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Plot Twist; Lord Percy is Kim.

Laughing Wink
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
NK having them is a massive risk because the entire leadership is clearly too stupid and crazy to know the dangers of inciting nuclear war?


Is NK an open and accepting community that we would all be glad to have the chance to live in, holding a nuclear arsenal to defend its way of life? Or is it an oppressive and brutal regime that with a leadership that would kill each and every one of its own people to survive?

At the height of the cold war between the US and USSR it was widely believed that the world would end in an irradiated fireball. Normal people genuinely thought it could happen. It would seem to have become accepted that developed nations really have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by taking that path and so the concern on that front has diminished. The collapse of the communist threat kinda helped on that front and now all the spats are really about money and who is the most billionarist.

The NK regime doesn't want to play that game.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nuclear weapon proliferation is almost unstoppable really. That's the depressing little fact the US likes to keep quiet about. They don't give a monkeys as long as it's not mainland America which gets hit. That's why they have such a vast global military machine. Its all about keeping the rest of us at arms length and in (and by definition the US out) of harms way. The US is more concerned about NKs missiles than NK having the bomb.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
So what you're saying is NK having a handful of nukes is instantly more of a horror than any other country having them.

Yes.


Lord Percy wrote:
But NK having them is a massive risk because the entire leadership is clearly too stupid and crazy to know the dangers of inciting nuclear war?

They're very clever chaps.

There are a couple of problems.

First, that the Readership is utterly ruthless and have a genuine contempt for human life, based on the way that they treat their own people and indeed families.

Second, that when the regime does fall, it may go down nuking. Or the successor might be even worse, although I find it hard to imagine what that would look like islam.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
jnw010 wrote:

Is NK an open and accepting community that we would all be glad to have the chance to live in, holding a nuclear arsenal to defend its way of life? Or is it an oppressive and brutal regime that with a leadership that would kill each and every one of its own people to survive?

.


'cos the NKs are just cartoons and have no smarts at all, least of all an ability to understand the concept of mutually assured distruction.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
jnw010 wrote:

At the height of the cold war between the US and USSR it was widely believed that the world would end in an irradiated fireball. Normal people genuinely thought it could happen. It would seem to have become accepted that developed nations really have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by taking that path and so the concern on that front has diminished.


So you didn't read this then, which I posted on page 1:

Lord Percy wrote:
Just seen an interesting Quora response to the question, "How close are we to war with North Korea?" - by a bloke whose dad was a US ambassador to the UN with a focus on nuclear nonproliferation.

TL;DR: Not that close to war, but everyone's getting a bit tetchy, and the reason it's got this way is because the US is running out of options for getting what it wants.


The slightly longer TL;DR of that article is that the US is basically at the final stage of its usual strategic path to get a country to do what it wants. At first it's all the usual diplomacy, then trying to bend over a bit to see if some accommodation can be made, then when all else fails they send the tanks in. So who's the aggressor here, and who's increasing the risk of thermonuclear war?

Rogerborg wrote:


First, that the Readership is utterly ruthless and have a genuine contempt for human life, based on the way that they treat their own people and indeed families.


I suspect the North Koreans have reasons to think similar of their number one enemy as well.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Prisoners_world_map_png2.png/1280px-Prisoners_world_map_png2.png

mpd72 wrote:


You really are naive if you think he's a nice chap and should be allowed to play with nuclear arms.


You really are naive for seeing it as such a clear case of good vs evil, and for thinking Donald "rough those protestors up a bit, my lawyers will deal with the consequences" Trump, leader of the United States of 'Operation Enduring Freedom' America, is any better.

Rogerborg wrote:

Second, that when the regime does fall, it may go down nuking. Or the successor might be even worse, although I find it hard to imagine what that would look like islam.


Perhaps, but what would cause such a thing to happen?

And why didn't Russia nuke the hell out of the planet when the Soviet Union collapsed? Why aren't you extending the same assumption of common human decency to the North Koreans?
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The last post was made 6 years, 204 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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