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buying my first bike - Cat C

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pixelhub
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Joined: 23 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: buying my first bike - Cat C Reply with quote

Hi,

I have just passed my CBT and have been looking to buy my first bike and have decided to go for a CBF 125 until I build up enough confidence on the road to take my DAS.

I have found a 2009 CBF 125 for £750 with 12 months MOT with no advisories.

the bike has been SORN for the last 2 months.

I did a HPI check and it show that the bike was a CAT C in 2010,
but its been on the road since 2011.

I am going to view it tomorrow and am unsure if this was a good buy? and would the CAT C have any affect on the insurance. With this being my first bike and having no knowledge on them i would really appreciate your advice.

Cheers
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turningCircle
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Re: buying my first bike - Cat C Reply with quote

pixelhub wrote:
Hi,

I have just passed my CBT and have been looking to buy my first bike and have decided to go for a CBF 125 until I build up enough confidence on the road to take my DAS.

I have found a 2009 CBF 125 for £750 with 12 months MOT with no advisories.

the bike has been SORN for the last 2 months.

I did a HPI check and it show that the bike was a CAT C in 2010,
but its been on the road since 2011.

I am going to view it tomorrow and am unsure if this was a good buy? and would the CAT C have any affect on the insurance. With this being my first bike and having no knowledge on them i would really appreciate your advice.

Cheers


I wouldn't go anywhere near a vehicle which has been written off against any category whatsoever - but that's just me. It isn't worth putting your life in danger. There are plenty of affordable motorcycles which have not been written off. Unless you are buying it for a full re-build; I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
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pixelhub
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PostPosted: 00:26 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My gut instinct, was to leave it when i saw the Cat C.
I wasn't sure when people talk about not going near a cat c write off, if they were talking about new write offs that need work doing or historic ones that have been repaired.
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DRZ4Hunned
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PostPosted: 00:33 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have no concerns buying a write off if it's priced accordingly. Any bike could be crashed not be recorded as a write off. It will impact the re-sale value so take that into account.
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pixelhub
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PostPosted: 01:47 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think 750 is a reasonable price, cheaper them most of the same year.

what problems could a cat c bike have that an MOT wouldn't show?

i am into minds about this bike.

i think the price is good and from what i can see, from 2012 its passed its MOT's with minor advisories. failing twice with headlamp aim low and break pads below minimum requirements.

the only thing putting me off is the cat c 7 years ago.

Can the bike be dangerous? there is no way of checking what the damage was but am i right in thinking that there are no checks to see if the repairs are any good before it goes back on to the road?
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 07:48 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many miles has it done in that 6 years? Chances are if it's been in use, it's going to be fine.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:23 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

Post a link to the advert if you want useful observations about that specific bike though.
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pixelhub
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

By looking at the gov MOT check It's done about 9300 miles since 2012.

I spotted an anomaly on the site it says the it passed its MOT in September 2014 but then failed in October 2014 ( with front headlamp aim too low) and then passed in October 2014
Why would you MOT a bike with 11 months left?

Also there is no MOT for 2015.

I have just check with the seller he has the V5 but its not in his name and no service history.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 09:43 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pixelhub wrote:
By looking at the gov MOT check It's done about 9300 miles since 2012.

I spotted an anomaly on the site it says the it passed its MOT in September 2014 but then failed in October 2014 ( with front headlamp aim too low) and then passed in October 2014
Why would you MOT a bike with 11 months left?

Also there is no MOT for 2015.


someone selling a bike may put a new mot on it

or if it sold through a dealer they would mot it for new owner

how many owners has it had
if it gets sold onto new owners a lot then there is possibly something dodgy with it
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B0ndy
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My gixxer is a CAT D, when I got it the only damage I could see what the nose cone had been plastic welded at some point - which has since been replaced (picked one up on Ebay for £20). I haven't died yet.

From what I understand, CAT C and CAT D are for cosmetic damage only - ie. someone's chucked it down the road and insurance has seen the price of replacing the fairings and decided to write it off.

£750 sounds like a good price but check for neglect, 125 owners are known for it. Check oil level, chain condition, chain slack, sprocket condition etc.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 11:34 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

When buying a bike, especially a learner-legal / 125, CONDITION IS ALL... and that's in the metal, clonking bearings to weeping filler caps metal, rather than the shiny bits.

A Cat-write off merely means that an insurance company has chosen to pay out as a total loss rather than pay for repairs, and if its officially recorded tell DVLA that...

AFAIK a Cat A or Cat B, officially declared cant be returned to road use; the log-book has to be returned to Swansea and that's that. All you can really do with the 'scrap' is strip it for parts, or see t melted down to make Chinese washing machines. Cat C & Cat D, if 'officially' declared to DVLA may be returned to the road, and a V5 re-issued after the bike has been repaired and passed an MOT.

Either way, its a bit of bureaucracy, and only pertinent to bikes that an insurance company have 'officially' declared as a total loss and cheaper to make a full pay-out on, than mugger about getting repaired. PLENTY of bikes and probably more, get smashed up beyond all recognition in accidents where there is no insurance cover, and repair is entirely down to the owner, who probably wont declare it 'scrap' to DVLA... and fixed up in their back yard with a sledge hammer, some gaffer tape and a rattle can, you would never have any 'record' of the thing ever having bee damaged, or how bad.

Back to top.. CONDITION IS ALL! ... and buyer beware... a record or even advert claiming a Cat write off means little.. except to potential resale price where folk like you may be put off or devalue a vehicle because of a Cat declaration... if.. in the metal, condition of bike is sound, this 'may' be an actual advantage! Otherwise it's not hugely relevant.

pixelhub wrote:
I spotted an anomaly on the site it says the it passed its MOT in September 2014 but then failed in October 2014 ( with front headlamp aim too low) and then passed in October 2014
Why would you MOT a bike with 11 months left?

That could be when the bike was catted, and the second MOT was required to get the V5 re-issued, or to satisfy a new buyer..

pixelhub wrote:
Also there is no MOT for 2015.

So, some-one 'forgot' or didn't know it needed and MOT or after buyig it was scared to ride it and left it i the shed after a couple of wobbles round the block, or they used it for six months, took tests, got a big bike, and parked it up as a spare, or or or.... who knows... who really cares, just 'cos you have a bike doesn't mean you HAVE to ride it

pixelhub wrote:
I have just check with the seller he has the V5 but its not in his name and no service history.


Why would any-one have service history for a 125? It's not mandatory; and after the warranty has run out few bikes get serviced by a paid mechanic, especially budget commuter bikes that are lucky to get any decent spanner attention at all from know-not learners or cost-conscious commuters... this is not really an issue... in the metal CONDITION IS ALL!

V5 is more of a concern.... but the seller has one.... which is useful.. there is a warning on the V5 which actually says "This is NOT proof or legal ownership" and there's bog all to say that you own a bike that is registered in your name... there are also plenty of reasons for the V5 not to be in the name of the seller.... eg; my O/H loaned her 125 to her brother-in-law.... putting V5 in his name saved a lot of hassle for him getting insurance and more, risk that O/H would get his speeding tickets!

Does the adders on the V5 match where the seller is showing you the bike? If not why not? Whats the sellers reason for selling, and explanation of the discrepancy? Do they actually OWN the bike? How warm a feeling do you get when after checking 'condition is all' that the seller is a genuine fella, and telling the truth ad not trying to conceal anything?

I would be as concerned that some-one selling a bike with the V5 in their name was actually the legal owner... they had't just applied for a replacement V5 in their name for £25 from DVLA who are happy to get a name and address of some-one to send the money with menaces letters or collect the tax from! On a bike that they have 'borrowed' from a mate, or found in a field!

Bottom line... you want garatees go to a dealer, stump up the £2500 or whatever a new CB125 costs, get a certificate of conformity, a garantee and a brand new v5 deeming you the first keeper.... you want a service history, take it back to the dealers, pay them £100 a time, and get them to do all the services and stamp the book for you... A-N-D pray YOU don't drop the thing as you wobble out the show-room on your first ride! At that point its a second hand motorbike, and as likely to be degraded or damaged as anything else.... only you aught know by who and how much!

If you want to 'save' buy price buying 2nd hand.. the you have to accept the risks that you do not know the bikes full history, and ANYTHING can have happened to it in its maiden voyage.. just look at Titanic! Let alone before its first MOT is due at 3-years... and on a bike now approaching 8 years? Which IS pretty close to the life expectancy of a 125, you are looking at a bike that is close to being on its last legs one way or another, that may have a couple of years of useful service life left n it, B-U-T, who knows how well ts bee looked after n the 8 years sine it was wheeled out the show room... how much real maintenance its had or how well its been one; how many time it may have been crashed and repaired, well or badly... and how much work will be needed to keep it in serviceable condition for a couple more years.

If you are risk averse and are not prepared for this sort of risk.... don't buy a bike! ANY bike! Catch the bus! Leave all that to someone else! Biggest risk you face there is that the bus'll be late...

£750 for an 'older' 125 is to my mind a bit on the steep side. But its a sellers market; ad that is right in the dangerous of being cheap enough to be attractive, without being so cheap its chinese or an imediete fixer upper.... there's ore folk looking for 125's in this price range than there are bikes for sale; so... back to top.. CONDITION IS ALL.

Manwhile...

pixelhub wrote:
I have just passed my CBT and have been looking to buy my first bike and have decided to go for a CBF 125 until I build up enough confidence on the road to take my DAS

CBT is your first lesson... and going-it-alone on a 125 is to take to the road, without the confidence you hope to get, wth the scantest of training or know-how to learn by doing.... hopefully.

Trouble IS, a bike is a bit of metal; it wont teach you what to do, just punish you for getting stuff wrong... its the school of hard knocks and them knocks can come hard on a motorbike..

Falling off motorbikes tends NT to be a great way to build confidence.... clambering onto a big-bike, and NOT falling off, having a chap following you watching your bum, and whispering words of wisdom into your hat over a radio DOES tend to get you up and doing, and FAR more than you get in the crush of CBT... and at the end of it, you get chap with clip-board for personality tell you 'yup, you made the grade' (hopefully')

125's CAN be great training tools, B-U-T if you lack the confidence to do DAS, falling off a 125 on your own time, is't really a good answer to that.....

For technique 125's can be great training tools; without so much weight or ooomph they are more demanding to ride, which is why I still actually enjoy thrashing one about from time to time; BUT just 'cos the bikes littler and less daunting doesn't make it any safer. You have same myopic idiots to dodge, the same junctions to negotiate; and the kerb-stones and lamp posts aren't any softer.

If you are an idiot a big bike ca get you into trouble a lot faster, but a lightweight, which is pretty much as fast as any vehicle is legally allowed to go in this country, wont save you from very many hazards, and if daft enough, can still get you just as dead....

Which will get you a little more know how to help you dodging hurt from fallng off.... pottering out on a 125 that as said, wont teach you what to do 'right' just punish you with pai for not doing it... OR cutting to the chase you plan anyway and doing a DAS course?

Your call.. B-U-T... that is where I think you should start.

You will, either way, have the niggles of trying to buy a bike, new or 2nd hand.. and you will NOT get the assurances whether anything you look at is worth the risk of putting your money on it, looking at a screen for the answers.. its IN THE METAL.. you need go get your hands on and tug and twist and kick tyres, and talk to sellers and sound out how genuine and clued up they may be.

99% of biking is is managing risk... and its not confined to the saddle or deciding how fast to go or whether its safe to pull out of a junction... starts here, before you even look for a bike, weighing up risks on GOOD information NOT guesswork, not magazine stats or reviews, and deciding which risks YOU are prepared to take, and whats the best route to a licence!!! What school to use! What gear to get! etc etc etc.

Risk management; good information, good decissions. PResumption and gueswork; bad information and 'feelings' tend to lead to bad choices, tend to lead to pain; whether falling off, or taking a hammering to the wallet, or buying hassles you old really do without.

Only way to avoid risk on a motorbike... don't ride one. Beyond that? Risks can be very rewarding.... but there's NO guarantees...

Old adage.. 'safety comes from USING your head, not sticking it in a padded hat and thinking you got the matter covered'.. this is where you need to start using head... its not all just what happens in the saddle... and when it comes to used bikes, sod the advert description, sod the magazine reviews, hands on, in the metal condition is all! And only YOU ca make the decision whether you think its worth the risk.
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Re: buying my first bike - Cat C Reply with quote

turningCircle wrote:

I wouldn't go anywhere near a vehicle which has been written off against any category whatsoever - but that's just me. It isn't worth putting your life in danger. There are plenty of affordable motorcycles which have not been written off. Unless you are buying it for a full re-build; I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.


As opposed to the other bikes that have been down the road unrecorded?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:26 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

B0ndy wrote:
From what I understand, CAT C and CAT D are for cosmetic damage only - ie. someone's chucked it down the road and insurance has seen the price of replacing the fairings and decided to write it off.

Not as I understand it. Cat D's meant to be damage less than the value of the vehicle (but it's an uneconomical repair), C's damage over the value of the vehicle.

My XR was Cat C and it never rode right. My MT-03 was written off as a Cat D, I fixed it, and it was fine so it depends on who repaired it. It's worth noting you might have trouble selling it on, you'll need to find someone else who doesn't mind (it puts a lot of people off).
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Ste
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 24 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Post a link to the advert if you want useful observations about that specific bike though.

That.
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:06 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
B0ndy wrote:
From what I understand, CAT C and CAT D are for cosmetic damage only - ie. someone's chucked it down the road and insurance has seen the price of replacing the fairings and decided to write it off.

Not as I understand it. Cat D's meant to be damage less than the value of the vehicle (but it's an uneconomical repair), C's damage over the value of the vehicle.


TBH I reckon it was more whichever letter the assessor found easier to write. Never found any consistency to it, which is probably why the whole thing has been replaced with Jew classifications.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:57 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Never found any consistency to it, which is probably why the whole thing has been replaced with Jew classifications.

Shocked
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 09:03 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignore the 12 months MoT bit - plenty of places (or people) can get blank MoTs' for £50 cash in hand nowadays. Legally it will have the 12 months of course, but whether it is up to scratch (roadworthy) is a different story.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
blank MoTs'

Wut?
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:20 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
arry wrote:
Never found any consistency to it, which is probably why the whole thing has been replaced with Jew classifications.

Shocked


Haha, new ones are Kosher.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH it's not that much of a bargain, but without seeing it...

CAT C wouldn't put me off either. You could drop it on it's side, crack all the plastics, and maybe handlebars and indicators, and it would probably be a CAT C. The cost of the replacement panels from Honda is £££
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fizzoid wrote:
TBH it's not that much of a bargain, but without seeing it...


Well since it's got a V5 that isn't in the seller's name and it's missing all of its service history; I'd go with avoid like the plague regardless.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Fizzoid wrote:
TBH it's not that much of a bargain, but without seeing it...


Well since it's got a V5 that isn't in the seller's name and it's missing all of its service history; I'd go with avoid like the plague regardless.


My YBR was the same, not in the seller's name because he was a bike breaker and had presumably bought it to sell on, and no service history.

But then, it wasn't £750 either...
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
AshWebster wrote:
blank MoTs'

Wut?


no faults no adviseries
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is a "blank MOT"?
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
What is a "blank MOT"?


read my last post?

i cant tell if youre being purposely dumb or just brainfart
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