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Client not paying invoice after 18months.

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winz
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 02 Oct 2017    Post subject: Client not paying invoice after 18months. Reply with quote
Hi All,

Just wondered if anyone else has been through this before?

Bit of background, I did some work for an acquaintance, no contract as it was just a few smaller bits, which then escalated (very silly I know).

All in he owes about £1400, I've emailed to say that payment needs to be made within 7 days or I shall pursue for money via SCC. One issue is, the address I have for him is old. I think I have worked out where he lives now, but not a specific flat number.

Is this something worth pursuing or writing it off as experience?

Cheers!
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 02 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: Client not paying invoice after 18months. Reply with quote
winz wrote:


All in he owes about £1400,

Is this something worth pursuing or writing it off as experience?

Cheers!


Yes. To a point.

Don't throw money at it, pursue it, without getting angry or hot under the collar about it, or spending (much) money doing it.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 00:55 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: Client not paying invoice after 18months. Reply with quote
winz wrote:
All in he owes about £1400, I've emailed to say that payment needs to be made within 7 days or I shall pursue for money via SCC. One issue is, the address I have for him is old. I think I have worked out where he lives now, but not a specific flat number.

Is this something worth pursuing or writing it off as experience?


A few things to consider -

Is the amount owed in dispute, or is he not paying you for some other reason? As in, if it went to court would there be an argument about whether the money is owed or not, and if so would you be easily able to prove your case?

If you do go ahead, you definitely need to have a full address for him; otherwise, if he's sent stuff by the courts then even if he does receive it, if he decides to lie and claim he didn't, he'd be able to point at the incomplete address on the paperwork to 'prove' it.

If you do end up submitting the court papers, you should really have sent the guy a Letter Before Action (ie, the contents of your email) by post to the correct address, giving him 7 days to comply Judges like to see that everything possible has been done to avoid court proceedings, and an email ("I never received no email, yer 'onner") really doesn't cut it. Don't send it with a signed-for service as you'll be screwed if he's expecting it and/or doesn't sign for it! Instead, send duplicate 1st class letters from two post offices on the same day, with a free proof of posting. No judge will believe both letters got lost in the post!

From experience, be aware that people will happily lie through their teeth in the small claims court, and even when caught out, the judge may well still do bugger all. Unbelievable.

If you win, you'll hope for a County Court Judgement in your favour, and if the guy doesn't cough up, you'll then pay more ££ to get the CCJ registered (at which point you at least have the satisfaction if knowing his credit rating will be screwed). You then need to decide if you are going to pursue the CCJ; eg if you know where he works you can get an Attachment of Earnings order against him, and you'll be paid direct in (possibly small) instalments as long as he works for the same employer.

So, a lot to think about when you're considering if it's worthwhile or not for £1400, and whether you'd be happy with any outcome other than payment of the debt (plus costs) in full...
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 00:57 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
^^ That's actually what I said. Laughing Well, it was in my head, when I typed my shorter response Embarassed
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 07:56 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
A quote from another thread on here fits the criteria.

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winz
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PostPosted: 09:45 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: Client not paying invoice after 18months. Reply with quote
Freddyfruitbat wrote:

A few things to consider -

Is the amount owed in dispute, or is he not paying you for some other reason? As in, if it went to court would there be an argument about whether the money is owed or not, and if so would you be easily able to prove your case?

I have no idea, he paid me for previous work which was all very similar, creating fitness guides. I've got all the emails that were sent regarding the work and also him asking to split the invoices that are outstanding.

Freddyfruitbat wrote:

If you do go ahead, you definitely need to have a full address for him; otherwise, if he's sent stuff by the courts then even if he does receive it, if he decides to lie and claim he didn't, he'd be able to point at the incomplete address on the paperwork to 'prove' it.

From one of his TY video's I know which apartment building he lives in, but not the specific flat number.

Freddyfruitbat wrote:

If you do end up submitting the court papers, you should really have sent the guy a Letter Before Action (ie, the contents of your email) by post to the correct address, giving him 7 days to comply Judges like to see that everything possible has been done to avoid court proceedings, and an email ("I never received no email, yer 'onner") really doesn't cut it. Don't send it with a signed-for service as you'll be screwed if he's expecting it and/or doesn't sign for it! Instead, send duplicate 1st class letters from two post offices on the same day, with a free proof of posting. No judge will believe both letters got lost in the post!

That sounds like a very good idea.

Freddyfruitbat wrote:

From experience, be aware that people will happily lie through their teeth in the small claims court, and even when caught out, the judge may well still do bugger all. Unbelievable.

This is kinda why I want to take it on the chin and not bother.

Freddyfruitbat wrote:

If you win, you'll hope for a County Court Judgement in your favour, and if the guy doesn't cough up, you'll then pay more ££ to get the CCJ registered (at which point you at least have the satisfaction if knowing his credit rating will be screwed). You then need to decide if you are going to pursue the CCJ; eg if you know where he works you can get an Attachment of Earnings order against him, and you'll be paid direct in (possibly small) instalments as long as he works for the same employer.

He's self employed, but not registered on companies house, so I am assuming he is a sole trader.

Freddyfruitbat wrote:

So, a lot to think about when you're considering if it's worthwhile or not for £1400, and whether you'd be happy with any outcome other than payment of the debt (plus costs) in full...


This is all food for thought. I'm almost tempted to send a letter to his Mums as we grew up in the same town, as that's the only address I know it could get forwarded to him from.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 10:27 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
you say you know his mum's address (I presume you know she still lives there)

Is it that you've just lost touch over this somehow and it's not an intentional not paying?

A letter via his mum's essentially saying "hey, did some work a while back, was hoping you'd be able to pay / start paying as I could really use the money" to try and re-establish contact

this might also get you current contact details for if you do need to escalate to a legal route
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've seen loads of Judge Rinder, he's fabulous.

Can you show that he agreed to the price of the work before it started? Or any other communication; acknowledging that he should pay you a specific price for the work undertaken?

I think it's quite easy to rack up that cost in the chasing of the payment, then if he doesn't pay and you have to pay to enforce a CCJ?? bluueerrgghhhh.

BCF options: follow him home, do 1400 quids worth of damage to his car or steal his missus; gary, punch tits, pics.
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winz
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wonko The Sane wrote:
you say you know his mum's address (I presume you know she still lives there)

Is it that you've just lost touch over this somehow and it's not an intentional not paying?

A letter via his mum's essentially saying "hey, did some work a while back, was hoping you'd be able to pay / start paying as I could really use the money" to try and re-establish contact

this might also get you current contact details for if you do need to escalate to a legal route


Unfortunately this is intentional. He's blocked my number, unfriended me on facebook. I've sent numerous emails every couple of months and no reply.

I think that might be the best route to go as I am pretty sure she is still there.
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winz
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
DrSnoosnoo wrote:
I've seen loads of Judge Rinder, he's fabulous.


He's an absolute darling!

DrSnoosnoo wrote:
Can you show that he agreed to the price of the work before it started? Or any other communication; acknowledging that he should pay you a specific price for the work undertaken?

I think it's quite easy to rack up that cost in the chasing of the payment, then if he doesn't pay and you have to pay to enforce a CCJ?? bluueerrgghhhh.

I don't, it was all hourly rate as everything varies in timescales, although for one of the invoices I do have an agreed amount set before carrying out the work.

DrSnoosnoo wrote:
BCF options: follow him home, do 1400 quids worth of damage to his car or steal his missus; gary, punch tits, pics.

This is, of course, the best option.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
winz wrote:
I think that might be the best route to go as I am pretty sure she is still there.

Maybe time to get slightly devious then. On the assumption that she doesn't know about the falling out with you, then approach her all friendly-like, eg saying that you're trying to get hold of your old mate Fred to drop something off but have forgotten his flat number - hopefully she'll oblige without thinking it's at all suspicious. You don't really want to be writing to him c/o her address as he'll just tell the court he doesn't live there and never got the mail - and that will be the end of it.

Also worth trying the Electoral Roll - you should be able to search the full version of that for free (yay democracy!) if you pitch up at your local town library. If he's on the register (as he's legally obliged to be, but hey), and especially if you know the building, job's a good'un.

I've heard good things about FinderMonkey - I'd be surprised if they couldn't locate him - albeit for a cost - and although you'd be able to add that on to the debt, that wouldn't help you if you can't eventually prise the cash out of chummy.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I though FinderMonkey was sport for lovers of the fuller figure....
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
After extensive research I see the Citizens Advice Bureau and
the UK Governments small claims court website has very specific guidelines on dealing with issues like yours
HTH

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P.
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 03 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you fancy, I'll WhatsApp him a dick pic. He might not pay, but he will see a dick on his phone.

Whilst I'm laying here quite unwell, might as well do something constructive.
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mudcow007
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you have his mums address, an he still wont pay up.....

spend the next few months woo-ing his mum, treat her to some "oil of olay" older chicks love that. shortbread biscuits oh an prunes

When you eventually rattle her take photographic proof as you can. Then send on to the toe rag who owes you cash mentioning "you started this!!"
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I want to know why fruitbat thinks recorded delivery is not a good idea? It's deemed served just like first class is,whether signed by the bill dodger or not.
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just a thought, if you manage to speak to him. If you get to a point where you think that there is absolutly no way of getting the money back, offer him a chance to pay at least half?

I guess that way its better than getting nothing at all? Its not idea, but...
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
I want to know why fruitbat thinks recorded delivery is not a good idea? It's deemed served just like first class is,whether signed by the bill dodger or not.

Cos if it's sent recorded delivery, then postie won't deliver it if the addressee isn't in or chooses not to answer the door. A card will be left instead, inviting him to come and pick it up from the sorting office, and if he doesn't, the letter is returned to sender.

Anybody who's being chased for debts (and if there's one creditor there are likely to be more) is likely to be wary of any official-looking mail and will be doing their best to avoid it.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
No matter, still deemed served under CPR.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 23:54 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
No matter, still deemed served under CPR.

As you sounded like you might know what you're talking about I just did a bit of digging, and turned up Blunden vs Frogmore Investments Ltd (2002).

I stand corrected. Though I still think my method is a lot more foolproof (doesn't rely on a judge being familiar with the relevant case law, and as a lay person in court I certainly wouldn't want to be the one informing him) and I will certainly use it myself should the situation ever arise (again).
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MCN
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PostPosted: 02:19 - 10 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mudcow007 wrote:
If you have his mums address, an he still wont pay up.....

spend the next few months woo-ing his mum, treat her to some "oil of olay" older chicks love that. shortbread biscuits oh an prunes

When you eventually rattle her take photographic proof as you can. Then send on to the toe rag who owes you cash mentioning "you started this!!"


Then try to get your name off the sex offenders list and stay out of gaol. Shocked
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winz
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 10 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Update time.

Spoke to a debt collector that my Dad drinks with, turns out, he owed me a favour from some work I did for him years and years ago.

A few emails to said debtor and he's paying half this week and half at the beginning of November.
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Last edited by winz on 17:52 - 10 Oct 2017; edited 1 time in total
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 10 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Winz. Thumbs Up
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 10 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
mudcow007 wrote:
If you have his mums address, an he still wont pay up.....

spend the next few months woo-ing his mum, treat her to some "oil of olay" older chicks love that. shortbread biscuits oh an prunes

When you eventually rattle her take photographic proof as you can. Then send on to the toe rag who owes you cash mentioning "you started this!!"


Then try to get your name off the sex offenders list and stay out of gaol. Shocked


It's not an offence to mummy shag (as long as it isn't your own)
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Tracer1234
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 10 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
J4mes wrote:
Winz. Thumbs Up


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