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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Judged by actions… Reply with quote

A question.

If people have shown you kindness, given you help and/or charity, or general favours…

Does that allow/excuse them to be-

… unpleasant in their behaviour (eg controlling)?

… Unpleasant in their addressing of you and general conversation (eg calling you a nickname they know you don't like, or talking about you condescendingly).

… Nasty about any person you know, eg little digs at friends of yours or other relatives. Eg He was always a wanker etc.

… unpleasant about other groups, eg minorities, workers in other segments.

But,that said, what about if they had bad childhoods, poor social skills, or are not neurotypical (aspie,bipolar,autism etc).

Thinking

It's a tough call.

Toxic people using good deeds to hook you in as you feel obliged to put up with it.

Or

Awkward people trying hard to relate, failing with conversation, so trying to make up for it by doing what help they can.

Or the no shit option,

It's case by case.



Point is, the people who have helped me the most have taken the greatest liberties, and can be really difficult (for me at least) to stay around them.

Trying to judge them by actions and ignore my gut feeling has bitten me a few times,but I also hate feeling ungrateful… and that a non-superficial relationship always has a lot of negative aspects too.

So, BCF, what do you reckon?
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a relationship take more out of you than you get back, then there has to be a bloody good reason to keep it. No-one's perfect and can be forgiven a few lapses, but if it's become the norm with no sign of improving, I don't think it matters how good it was in the past.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: Judged by actions… Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
… unpleasant in their behaviour (eg controlling)?

… Unpleasant in their addressing of you and general conversation (eg calling you a nickname they know you don't like, or talking about you condescendingly).

… Nasty about any person you know, eg little digs at friends of yours or other relatives. Eg He was always a wanker etc.

… unpleasant about other groups, eg minorities, workers in other segments.

But,that said, what about if they had bad childhoods, poor social skills, or are not neurotypical (aspie,bipolar,autism etc).

How many "people" does this list cover?
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My inclination is to rarely (if ever) ask for or accept favours from anyone. It invariably leads to some form of obligation expected by them in return. Whether it be a reciprocal deed, or putting up with some other crap from them in the future. People in general are over-rated and bound to disappoint.

So, I wonder if your expectations of other people are a little too high. Idealistic even. It's a big ask to expect someone to rise to your standards of behaviour ALL of the time and people expressing contrary views or acting insensitively are probably not directing it personally to you. They're just being dicks.

That said, your "case by case" argument holds. My ex brother-in-law was a salt-of-the-earth, do-anything-for-anybody type. However, this was a mere front for his bullying and controlling behaviour at home/work/pub. Thank goodness my sister divorced him. Mind you, it took her 17 years to understand his modus operandi.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

About 7 over the past few years, some blood, mostly not.

As said, accepting charity does seem to bring it out of people, so that is a component.

And yes, many do it to all people they get to know … ie a pathology / limitation and not personal.

Which is the question I guess, when asked to judge people by actions… ie a bit odious/unpleasant but will drop everything to help you, how do you reconcile that with the gut feeling they are dangerous to be around.

Simple step would be stop accepting favours once unsafe feeling felt (and then watch the fireworks often), or never be around them when weak. Which is a better working strategy,but the somewhat defies the point of the relationship (and gives them no chance to redeem themselves)

Thinking
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you challenged any of these behaviours with the people doing them?
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:
Have you challenged any of these behaviours with the people doing them?


Yes, with some success from some, breakdown of relationship with others. Others actually get worse Laughing

I had one lately where her behaviour towards me improved markedly, but her behaviour to others (including friends) got worse and she started to drive a wedge in after I stopped accepting favours Thinking

But she would drop everything to help me, or she would have before 'ungratefully' challenging her.
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"Oh and STE balloons would be one of the nicer things we would receive at the office, the amount of dog turd in jiffy bags is not funny." Jsmith86
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recman
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scrape 'em off.
I've no time for weirdos games.
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kill them, with fire.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracey Suntan-King wrote:
People in general are over-rated and bound to disappoint.

This. People are generally c**ts, although it can take some time for it to become apparent.

Don't adults generally only want favours? That's what it feels like anyway Smile I think as long as it's a bit of give and take it isn't a bad thing, but if it's all one way forget about it.

Had this with my 'best' mate recently. We've basically stopped hanging out since I stopped lending him money, being generous buying takeaways etc., it leaves you questioning what the friendship was really all about Neutral
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like you say, scrape them off.

The biggest danger is hope. Hope they will change. Hope that you can do something different to fix them. Hope they will be good this time.

Well. Live well, it's the best revenge.
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"Oh and STE balloons would be one of the nicer things we would receive at the office, the amount of dog turd in jiffy bags is not funny." Jsmith86
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Omega
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't have to be that black and white. Just stop seeing so much of each other. I tend to see my closer mates once every week or two. They all have annoying bits to their personalities but in small bursts it's just part of the fun. If I had to put up with them daily then something would need to change.

Everyone gets annoying eventually if you're under each others feet all the time.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omega wrote:
It doesn't have to be that black and white. Just stop seeing so much of each other. I tend to see my closer mates once every week or two. They all have annoying bits to their personalities but in small bursts it's just part of the fun. If I had to put up with them daily then something would need to change.

Everyone gets annoying eventually if you're under each others feet all the time.

I never really appreciated this until I started working with a mate, we went from seeing each other every week (as friends) to every month or two even though we don't work together anymore. Friendships ebb and flow, I think it's best to let them die out rather than fall out with the person.
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Omega
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I never really appreciated this until I started working with a mate, we went from seeing each other every week (as friends) to every month or two even though we don't work together anymore. Friendships ebb and flow, I think it's best to let them die out rather than fall out with the person.


That's my situation. I got about 4 mates into jobs with me. We're still close but it definitely causes problems and we go through phases of being really pissed off with each other.

When things get a bit rough we just avoid each other for a bit. No one falls out or cuts contact etc. A few days or weeks of distance is enough to put things back into perspective. Same applies to my other mates and family who I don't work with.

All of those things mentioned by OP sound like typical "under each others feet too much" problems.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omega wrote:


All of those things mentioned by OP sound like typical "under each others feet too much" problems.


Not really.

Some could be, for sure, especially when I've been staying with people longer term.

However, other times it is a slow erosion of respect / respectful behaviour, others it could be aggressive or controlling behaviour, and others could be just awful social skills (control of which may take extra energy, so once familiar they drop their guard)

Thinking

Interesting to think all people get on everybodies tits eventually.
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"Oh and STE balloons would be one of the nicer things we would receive at the office, the amount of dog turd in jiffy bags is not funny." Jsmith86
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woo
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

i cut them out my life with immediate effect dont care if its close family or not GOODBYE!
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Omega
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:

Not really.

Some could be, for sure, especially when I've been staying with people longer term.

However, other times it is a slow erosion of respect / respectful behaviour, others it could be aggressive or controlling behaviour, and others could be just awful social skills (control of which may take extra energy, so once familiar they drop their guard)

Thinking

Interesting to think all people get on everybodies tits eventually.


Maybe it's you. Maybe you're really good at short term friendships but not so good in the long run? Do you move around a lot or change hobbies/interests/groups regularly? Maybe you see it as controlling because they're restricting you to the kind of things that made you friends in the first place?

Only thinking out loud. I tend to over think social stuff in my own life too.

*Edit - I think the over thinking is a good thing. I know plenty of people who would go down the "I just cut contact immediately, fuck em" route. They miss out on so much because of their bullheadedness.*
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omega wrote:



Maybe it's you. Maybe you're really good at short term friendships but not so good in the long run? Do you move around a lot or change hobbies/interests/groups regularly?



Get out of my head, witch!

Yes, a fair bit. I rock at short term friendships (single serving friends) and superficial relationships (shop staff etc) from years of travel and going out mingling etc.

Longer ones tend not to hold my interest,but plenty of people are fine with me years down the line… like we had met the week before. I have a dozen or more of those around the world. Annoyimgly these people sometimes get attached to difficult people (wives erc).


Quote:


Maybe you see it as controlling because they're restricting you to the kind of things that made you friends in the first place?

Only thinking out loud. I tend to over think social stuff in my own life too.

*Edit - I think the over thinking is a good thing. I know plenty of people who would go down the "I just cut contact immediately, fuck em" route. They miss out on so much because of their bullheadedness.*


I struggle with trusting stuff is genuine, not sarcastic banter or a barb. That can be an issue… especially with people who do have genuine digs. Got one earlier that could have been a clumsy platitude or a nasty dig… choosing to believe the former,consciously.

However, controlling for me is for example when someone refuses to let you drop your friend to the airport by bike and demands to pay 40 plus quid for a taxi… assuming a host of things in the process.
Something like that I would consider controlling. Sulks about not inviting them to things or guff like that can be another…
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"Hard times lead to hard people. Hard people lead to good times. Good times lead to weak people. Weak people lead to hard times." Smegballs
"Oh and STE balloons would be one of the nicer things we would receive at the office, the amount of dog turd in jiffy bags is not funny." Jsmith86
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 07:11 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

And we have another one. A possible future boss and currant course coordinator.
No attempt at preserving her boundaries, forces closeness and then feels that allows childish levels of pushiness. Controlling and coercive, possibly just fancies me and flirting funny, but not pleasant at all Neutral
Had just applied for a fairly cosy job,ultimately managed by her, and now think it would be unwise to accept it.

My fault somehow, but no idea how Neutral

She has gone above and beyond her direct duties for many people many times, and is a great person to have in your corner. I made sure to only show strength around her though, and have not accepted physical charity at all.

Annoying.
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"Hard times lead to hard people. Hard people lead to good times. Good times lead to weak people. Weak people lead to hard times." Smegballs
"Oh and STE balloons would be one of the nicer things we would receive at the office, the amount of dog turd in jiffy bags is not funny." Jsmith86
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:22 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you considered you maybe just attract weirdos?
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.....
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
And we have another one. A possible future boss and currant course coordinator.
No attempt at preserving her boundaries, forces closeness and then feels that allows childish levels of pushiness. Controlling and coercive, possibly just fancies me and flirting funny, but not pleasant at all Neutral
Had just applied for a fairly cosy job,ultimately managed by her, and now think it would be unwise to accept it.

My fault somehow, but no idea how Neutral

She has gone above and beyond her direct duties for many people many times, and is a great person to have in your corner. I made sure to only show strength around her though, and have not accepted physical charity at all.

Annoying.


Have you tried raisin this with her?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:
And we have another one. A possible future boss and currant course coordinator.
No attempt at preserving her boundaries, forces closeness and then feels that allows childish levels of pushiness. Controlling and coercive, possibly just fancies me and flirting funny, but not pleasant at all Neutral
Had just applied for a fairly cosy job,ultimately managed by her, and now think it would be unwise to accept it.

My fault somehow, but no idea how Neutral

She has gone above and beyond her direct duties for many people many times, and is a great person to have in your corner. I made sure to only show strength around her though, and have not accepted physical charity at all.

Annoying.


Have you tried raisin this with her?


I think the fruitiness she shows towards him is the issue. Some guys would say he's nuts (looks dependant, obviously) to complain.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Have you considered you maybe just attract weirdos?

Oi.
I resemble that remark.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
Thinking
Interesting to think all people get on everybodies tits eventually.


Yeah but its not always forever.
Like, several of my friends have become to the point of being incredibly irritating to me*, or that I have for some reason felt compelled to take a powder about them, but when I see them I forget what it was that annoyed me, and its all okay again.

Those kind of people are usually people I've known for years, who know me quite well, but see me rarely. Which means we've had a blast in the past, and don't get in each other's faces too much any more, but still care what happens to one another, and have a good time when we are in the same place.




*and vice versa, no doubt - although I don't see how, cos I am so damn adorable Cool Thumbs Up
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 22 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
M.C wrote:
Have you considered you maybe just attract weirdos?

Oi.
I resemble that remark.

Are you the attracter or attractee?
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