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pepperami
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Touring with others? Reply with quote

I did a little trip to Walesland and did it on my own.
I had no issues with that, it allowed me to do what the hell I liked.

However I think it might be interesting to go on a tour with a small group.

So what makes a good formula for a successful trip?
I suppose everyone has to agree about the type of accommodation during the trip ie camping or B&B.
Then there would be things like routes, miles-per-day, and so on.

What other things do you need to take into account to make a group trip work?
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raesewell
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run a few trip every year, you need to find people that you get on with and more importantly can ride with.
If you have a group of varying ability the faster ones get frustrated and the slower ones feel intimidated, so it's important to match ability.

This is why my trips are mostly invite only.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being at the front of the pack mentally starts to come into the riding does it?
My bike’s powaaar versus your bike’s powaaar would be one factor that would annoy me ..

I guess similar ability, similar bikes, and agreed budget are all good platforms to start from.
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
Being at the front of the pack mentally starts to come into the riding does it?
My bike’s powaaar versus your bike’s powaaar would be one factor that would annoy me ..

I guess similar ability, similar bikes, and agreed budget are all good platforms to start from.


It's all stuff you can overcome as long as everyone is prepared to be a bit flexible.

I don't think large groups work - it's like taking your own traffic jam with you, and then when overtaking opportunities are limited the lead rider has that choice as to whether to go and leave others struggling to pass / facing getting lost, or hang back - and then if they hang back the rider behind gets frustrated and decides to go for it and that leads to all sorts of horroshow stuff too.

Small groups of 3-4 bikes not really an issue. Tend to agree either entire routes, and make sure everyone is versed in them, or partial routes / destination waymarkers and then make sure everyone is prepared to stop for others to catch up there. That way, if a couple of more experienced Firebladers want to go full blazing squad then they can go at it whilst us bimblers bimble around 2 miles behind.

Smaller groups work better for things like camp sites and B&B's too generally.

I don't think bike matching is particularly needed. I toured with Pigeon earlier this year in Norfolk, my KTM against his Striple; so roughly evens I guess. He's a better rider than me, but I was never really struggling to keep up. But then later in the year we did South Downs together and I took the Enfield. He just adjusted his pace to suit and had a relaxed ride, still enjoying it. If it looked like I was dropping away, he'd back off a little, and if I was on his rear pushing to go quicker, he'd pick up the pace. He still shot off into the distance on occasion to blast out the webs. No bother at all.
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ocatoro
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

done some in cars, but travelling with friends/others is same thing regardless of vehicle.

went once with 2 cars and 1 bike... biker felt the miles far more and was more irritable as a result.

also only ever done it with good friends. which still does not lead to harmony. was some snark and some hissy fits. not sure if just because of specific person, or that's a normal thing that happens.


budget etc.. not such a big thing. essentially if i want to stay in a formule1 hotel for £13... but flash dave wants 5 star luxury with a heated garage for his wheels... then that's fine. we'll meet at the local mcdonalds at 8am the following morning and forego the breakfast option at the hotel.

same with power/ability. swings and roundabouts, boils down to what people find more irritating. for me, riding slow and staying together is better than having to wait at agreed meeting points alone for half an hour for them to catch up. when we're away we agree to stay together until there's a particular run of corners or whatever, fastest goes first... and then meet at the other end.

miles will kill you all if not sensible. as i mentioned we did 400-500 mile days in cars and a mate brought his rf9... he was not comfortable in the slightest.

most of the differences we've come across over time though have just come down to personality. like the difference between wanting to explore the town we've driven 500 miles to go to and eat in town somewhere, vs wanting to eat in the hotel and go straight to bed (but clearly wanting everyone to do same). or difference between being a tight ass wanting to avoid tolls.. vs wanting to make up the time. things like that. nothing major.

more recently it's been easier as I've planned to go planned where I'm going and what I'm doing, then invited others. brief period for suggestions of deviation from my plan, then just take it or leave it, i'll be at the 2am ferry on this day. seems people prefer to be told a plan than to have to think about making one.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morning rising.

Some people get up at 6.30am and are washed, packed and raring to go by 8am. No, really.

Others fall out of bed with a hangover at 9am and are about ready to go by 11-ish.

These two groups do not get on well on longer tours.

So yeah, don't mix early risers with night owls. Don't mix eaters/drinkers with bed by 9.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my limited experience of touring in groups it isn't the 'my bike is faster' thing (they/we can go play, smoke a ciggie whilst waiting) it's the ones who say yeah yeah I know where we're going...then promptly get lost.

Case in point; May this year....I'm in a group of 11 of which I know 3. I meet them in a layby...quick hello and they're off...1st roundabout...some go left some straight on and others stop on the roundabout! This set the scene for most of the week [grin through clenched teeth].

The majority of these blokes had been riding since the 1960s yet still hadn't organised a workable system for group riding.

During the 3rd day when I'd had enough of finding them on whatsapp and when we were all together I asked who had the satnav and wouldn't it be a crazy idea if no bastard overtook him as he was the only bastard who knew the bastard route we were bastarding going....and hey lads what about riding staggered when we can so I don't fear getting arse-ended..or a least get a clearer view. Wouldn't mind but 1 of us bastards was IAM certified!

Then there was the 'I wanna see this' well I don't etc etc.
I'm painting it in a bad light..It was a good little tour once I sussed things out.

In short; Common sense/Ground rules.
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ocatoro
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
In my limited experience of touring in groups it isn't the 'my bike is faster' thing (they/we can go play, smoke a ciggie whilst waiting) it's the ones who say yeah yeah I know where we're going...then promptly get lost.

Case in point; May this year....I'm in a group of 11 of which I know 3. I meet them in a layby...quick hello and they're off...1st roundabout...some go left some straight on and others stop on the roundabout! This set the scene for most of the week [grin through clenched teeth].

The majority of these blokes had been riding since the 1960s yet still hadn't organised a workable system for group riding.

During the 3rd day when I'd had enough of finding them on whatsapp and when we were all together I asked who had the satnav and wouldn't it be a crazy idea if no bastard overtook him as he was the only bastard who knew the bastard route we were bastarding going....and hey lads what about riding staggered when we can so I don't fear getting arse-ended..or a least get a clearer view. Wouldn't mind but 1 of us bastards was IAM certified!

Then there was the 'I wanna see this' well I don't etc etc.
I'm painting it in a bad light..It was a good little tour once I sussed things out.

In short; Common sense/Ground rules.


lol, this!

wasn't surprised when even people with sat nav got lost "latest version m8"... Evil or Very Mad (why's it taken you into a carpark then?)

also if people are ridiculously slow/nervous... they can't come. that's a rule going forward for me. last year had some doing 20mph on Italian motorway claiming they couldn't go any faster and that it was me who was speeding off despite when I slowed to 30 for a bit, they dropped back further still. whole thing was dangerous and annoying. not doing it again, I know everyone has to start somewhere... but you can gain competency and confidence at home. the wrong side thing is a non issue
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ocatoro
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

radio contact also allows peak snark
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

During that last one there was 1 bloke who'd only just passed his test and was riding a brand new mv agusta turismo veloce. No wonder he looked tired out after day2. We paired him up with another bloke who was recovering from an injury and who was himself regaining confidence.

Yep, it was a right mixed bag and as I mentioned we got it sorted...just in time to go home. Laughing

[edit] Props to a bloke called Vic who although in his 70s took it upon himself to beat everyone off the line...every junction...every time....He also got lost quite often. Laughing But boy could he launch a bike.
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Last edited by Howling Terror on 17:03 - 09 Oct 2017; edited 1 time in total
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ocatoro
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: Touring with others? Reply with quote

I rambled a bit, so I'll answer the actual questions asked...

pepperami wrote:
I did a little trip to Walesland and did it on my own.
I had no issues with that, it allowed me to do what the hell I liked.

However I think it might be interesting to go on a tour with a small group.


it is nicer in groups. I enjoy sharing the experience rather than telling people who aren't interested at all (through their own ignorance :p )

pepperami wrote:
So what makes a good formula for a successful trip?

- like minded, non clingy people. if some want to stay in the hotel to eat and go bed, fine... so long as they don't expect whole group to do so. you don't have to be glued together for the whole trip. but it's nice if everyone wants to see the place they've arrived at.

- a plan (yes I know lots like the freedom of make it up as you go along, but doesn't work in groups in my experience) tell everyone the plan and the route you intend to take, and invite them to share.

- if you have agreed to certain things, stick to them.

- safety etc... if you're a hundred, or 3,000 miles from home... you don't want to be faffing because some div has come with bald tyre or ropey brakes... or the idea that he's dovizioso going round the outside of everything just because he can and coming a cropper.

pepperami wrote:
I suppose everyone has to agree about the type of accommodation during the trip ie camping or B&B.
Then there would be things like routes, miles-per-day, and so on.

no... just agree a rendezvous point (usually mcdonalds) in mornings to account for different tastes/budgets. I'm usually a "cheap as possible as long as it's clean" person along the way. and if we stop somewhere for a recharge for a few days... then spend a bit more.

pepperami wrote:
What other things do you need to take into account to make a group trip work?


confidence. attitudes. type of bikes/comfort levels... communication, overall budget...
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^Answering questions??? You big fanny. Razz
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ocatoro
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
^^^Answering questions??? You big fanny. Razz


my bad, is it not the done thing
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old BCF would've derailed this for 2 pages. Folded arms
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm a lot of interesting stuff Thumbs Up
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Snod Blatter
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Done this quite a few times, it seems to be important to have someone who can be the leader and who has the plan - it cannot be left to the group as nothing will happen! The leader will never be popular though, everyone will love to pick holes in the plan they have been provided..

Also, people who complain all the time are really tiring after a while.

I've also done a few solo trips, and I actually prefer the solo riding but it's nice to have someone to pass the time with at stops and at night. Compromises both ways..
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess what comes out of this from my viewpoint is that I’m a selfish bar-steward and would find it hard to find someone/people with a similar mindset as myself.

Best for me to meet peoples on the route and/or make damm sure they know the plan.
Then it’s up to them.
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ocatoro
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
I guess what comes out of this from my viewpoint is that I’m a selfish bar-steward and would find it hard to find someone/people with a similar mindset as myself.

Best for me to meet peoples on the route and/or make damm sure they know the plan.
Then it’s up to them.


could always just find one mate you wana travel with... i've weeded my touring friends down to just 2 who are reliably not going to back out like people always bloody will... and who are easy going enough to have fun wherever we end up. luckily, one has a bike, and one is in the process of doing his tests after being on a cbt for a couple of years...so its feasible now to just do bike trips and politely exclude some others who aren't so easy going Smile
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
I guess similar ability, similar bikes, and agreed budget are all good platforms to start from.


I've not really been into group rides for years, but found recently the local Enfield group rides have been enjoyable. They're a good bunch from various backgrounds, but since we're all of a similar mindset when it comes to our bikes, the runs flow quite well.

We work on the basis that at we all know the destination, at least two people know the intended route, and we ride so that the person behind is visible in the mirror. Someone stops at any awkward junctions so that it's obvious where we go next. There's usually a couple of guys on GTs who do that job, as they are quicker at getting back to the front of the group Smile

Our expectations for start times, breaks, and end times are all agreed on up front, but if we find that the general consensus is to alter anything, we go with the flow. If someone wants to ride on at a greater pace they can, if someone wants to hang back and have another cuppa, they can. It's not regimented.

I've missed out on some of the hotel stays and pissups; hoping to make more of it next year. I don't think any of them are up to camping Smile
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like touring with my partner. She's not quite as fast as I am (not that I'm Rossi or anything, but I tour for sport because London is miles away from mountains), but doesn't mind when I take off for a bit when we get to a curvy bit of road; I'll take it easy for a bit after it straightens out, or stop if I reach a junction. We both have satnavs and an agreed final destination for the day, so if we ever do get split up - only ever happened at complex motorway junctions - we can come together again, even without needing to coordinate times we're both off the bike so we can call one another. But we usually stick together, and it's a shared experience. There's definitely something lost doing it solo.

Riding in larger groups is as mixed as the people in the group. If you're riding to see things and you know each other well, and the bike is just a way of travelling, it may work. Or if the whole group wants to have a similar ride. One trip I did used the junction dropoff system with yellow and orange bibbed front and rear riders, very organized, but we ended up on too many tiny country lanes ill-suited to my VFR. I've done a group ride in Normany - going from one WWII site to another that I have zero interest in, as if the only thing France has going for it is as a memorial for the dead, mostly straight roads on flat land, stopping every 40 minutes,. Barely did 150 miles a day. Never again.

Small groups of like-minded people who know one another reasonably well is probably best. You'll know each other better afterwards, but if you go your separate ways and never meet again, the experience won't be as deep.
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arry
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
[I don't think any of them are up to camping Smile


I'll be up for Enfield camping next year if you are.

pepperami welcome to join us too.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loosly tour, in that, by all means have a group of you, but arrange an end point each day, and just make your own ways there .. That way, you get the company when you're off the bikes, and get to ride the route/roads you want to. Everybody is happier then Laughing
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
[I don't think any of them are up to camping Smile


I'll be up for Enfield camping next year if you are.

pepperami welcome to join us too.


Put my name on the list Smile I haven’t got an Enfield, can I use my Chinese 250 pos Thumbs Up
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about hostels and bunk houses?
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arry
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 09 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
What about hostels and bunk houses?


Either way good and I'm not a bike racist.
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