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If you don't already own one: Would you consider buying an electric motorcycle? |
Definitely (6) |
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25% |
[ 14 ] |
Very Probably (5) |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
Probably (4) |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
Possibly (3) |
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22% |
[ 12 ] |
Probably Not (2) |
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18% |
[ 10 ] |
Definitely Not (1) |
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18% |
[ 10 ] |
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Total Votes : 54 |
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1198 |
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1198 World Chat Champion
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
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Dave.... |
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Dave.... Trackday Trickster
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
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Posted: 06:30 - 18 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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I'm already considering it, but, having seen the 2018 Zero range, the maximum range is just too short, despite the increased speed of charging.
They are getting closer to being perfectly viable for me. I could do it if I decided I wanted to stop at Corley services for a cuppa on the way home from work, but, then, buying a cuppa whilst waiting for an extra 30-40 miles range added isn't so appealing, it is however, doable...
Actually, the Zero S 11KW, does make for a compelling argument for replacing a 125. Alot of 125's are owned by people who have no idea about maintenance, and, have no intention of doing. With the Zero, they don't have to worry about the bulk of the maintenance they have to with a petrol bike, for most, the range of the Zero is ample, and, again, going back to the lack of maintainence, the materials used in the Zero, won't corrode to the same extent as most 125's.
The batteries have a 5 year warranty, which is pretty good going, overall, the batteries are designed to last about 500,000 miles or so, I would imagine, long before that time, the rest of the bikes will have worn out.
So, yes, overall, for me it's the range, I my office was still in Birmingham, I'd have 1 like a shot.
As for Evoke motorcycles, I imagine that their products will come in appreciably cheaper, once available, either later this year, or early next, but then again, the range is a little more of an issue, although, it does look like the battery is removable, or at least I think it is, sure I read it somewhere, so, that could be plugged in at work easier, and, at 11KW, A1 and CBT legal, so, a perfectly viable 125 replacement. ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 07:44 - 18 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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linuxyeti wrote: | buying a cuppa whilst waiting for an extra 30-40 miles range added isn't so appealing, it is however, doable... |
Except you wouldn't be waiting for 30-40 miles, at least not after the first time you put in 29 miles worth of electric. You'd be waiting on significantly more than that to give yourself a safe margin.
linuxyeti wrote: | Actually, the Zero S 11KW, does make for a compelling argument for replacing a 125. |
If you intend to keep it and run it into the ground.
linuxyeti wrote: | The batteries have a 5 year warranty |
Backed by whom?
Not a rhetorical question.
Backed by whom in 5 years time?
Very not rhetorical.
I will have a leccy bike, but it won't have the badge of a small-medium enterprise that's reliant on taxpayer subsidies for survival. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 09:12 - 18 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: |
Except you wouldn't be waiting for 30-40 miles, at least not after the first time you put in 29 miles worth of electric. You'd be waiting on significantly more than that to give yourself a safe margin.
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Why, that added distance would be sufficient, with some safe margin
Rogerborg wrote: | linuxyeti wrote: | Actually, the Zero S 11KW, does make for a compelling argument for replacing a 125. |
If you intend to keep it and run it into the ground.
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That's more likely now though isn't it, especially if starting out from a young age, then, you could be potentially be stuck on an 11KW bike for a minimum of 3 years, Also, the 11KW electric bike is likely to be more practical for some motorway riding, as it's top speed is 80+ mph, less likely to achieve that on 125's, from any manufacturer, at least, new Euro 3/4 compliant machines. This makes the 11KW bike a reasonable solution to riders, who, with petrol bikes would be looking to go up to an A2 or even A category compliant machine.
Rogerborg wrote: | linuxyeti wrote: | The batteries have a 5 year warranty |
Backed by whom? .....
I will have a leccy bike, but it won't have the badge of a small-medium enterprise that's reliant on taxpayer subsidies for survival. |
Well, Zero have been around since 2006, and producing bikes since 2011, so, the 5yr warranty on the batteries seem perfectly feasible to me.
I do think over the next few years, we'll also see some of the more mainstream manufacturers producing electric bikes, BMW already have the c evolution, Harley have got something in the pipeline, Honda & Yamaha are collaborating on electric tech.
To be honest, if the mainstream manufacturers don't get their act together, they run the risk of playing catchup to the chinese ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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skatefreak |
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skatefreak World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 11:55 - 18 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Polarbear wrote: | linuxyeti wrote: |
Actually, the Zero S 11KW, does make for a compelling argument for replacing a 125. |
What?
At £13690 it makes a compelling argument FOR a 125. That's about 10 grands of fuel before they break even, not including electric costs. So you are talking well over 100,000 miles before you even get close to the cost of a new 11kw Zero.
Oh, plus the costs of all the coffees you drink while waiting for it to charge. |
OK, so, First off, take £1500.00 government grant off that
That brings it down to ~ £12200
Now, take for exampl a new YZF-R125 = £4600
2 year warranty , service intervals 1200, then at every 1800 miles, so, even very light riding, that would require at least 6 services over 2 years, servicing costs around £100 per service.
So, add another £600 onto that price, and suddenly you're down to a difference of £7000 now. Not including VED & Fuel, which granted for a 125, is not likely to be anywhere near the £7K difference.
But, as I said, that's light riding, surely most people do at least 10-12000 miles per year, just as average use?? I mean, even on my secondary bike, I've covered over 400miles since Sunday, and I don't think I ride that much, Which would increase those service costs etc.
Performance wise, top speed of the R125, said to be 84mph, but, read most have trouble getting to 70.
Soon the difference in price/performance begins to even out, after a relatively short time. The motor on the Zero, and will be with the Evoke, are maintenance free..
Yes, you still have tyres, and other consumables to take care off on a like for like basis, including on the Zero the belt (about £40 replacement), although that won't be the case on the Evoke, as that's a hub motor)
Yes the Zero is expensive, but over the lifetime of ownership, the economics do start to at least even out.
Also, taking the Evoke into account, I'm pretty certain that the cost of that will be appreciably less than the Zero, and, it will still qualify for the £1500 government grant. ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Tracer1234 |
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Tracer1234 World Chat Champion
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kal9001 |
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kal9001 Trackday Trickster
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Posted: 14:03 - 18 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Electric push bikes seem to be the thing at the moment, Super light weight, but can be really powerful.
The legality of them is bollocks though, I can't see it taking too long for a huge crack down on them when people start being killed.
As for electric motorbikes, Sure. I've seen massively positive reviews of the Zero, though they have manufacturing issues, if A properly big player were to jump into this they could have something really decent out.
Some will say they like the gears and the noise, but for those who just like the speed and acceleration, simply the ride or commuting then electric bikes make a lot of sense, and as technology progresses they will get better and better.
You could look at this as the 1920's of electric vehicles (And yes I do know there was a historic attempt at electric vehicles before petrol became dominant...) but... look at a ford model T compared with a car today... Things like the Leaf and Prius are the model-T of our era, The Tesla is the next step. there's like another century of technology to catch up on pretty much. ____________________ Anyone stupid enough to think we will drag a load of wooden horses full of soldiers into our city is certanley stupid enough to drag all of ours into theirs! |
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 15:35 - 18 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Polarbear wrote: | linuxyeti wrote: | and suddenly you're down to a difference of £7000 now. |
If you want one, fine, fill your boots but you can't justify the unjustifiable.
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I'm sorry, fail to see, what this has to do with chinese bikes, yes, taking some of the chinese bikes into the equation, the economics are less attractive, but, also, the performance of most of the chinese 125's won't get you anywhere near that of a Zero, infact most new 125's won't. Who said it was justifiable or otherwise, I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying for me, I would consider it, but, only if the range was sufficient, hence why not at the moment. However, if my was 100 miles or less (motorway speed) then, absolutely I would have 1, and I would hazard a guess, that most peoples commutes on here are less than a 100 miles, so, it would make sense. From a convenience point of view, plug it in at night, ride it during the day, don't have to bother with petrol stations. Far less in the way of servicing & associated gumf, like all having oil around, if you do your own servicing as well, don't have to worry about the disposal of the used engine oil.. There is more to it, and, so, no need to check or adjust the chain, on the Evoke, won't even need to check the belt. No need to take it the garage to get the ecu mapped, just use the app to get the equivalent firmware updated. It's more than just basic finances
Yes the range, for me is an issue, only because I can't charge it at work, at the moment, the bike has ample range to get me there, and most of the way back, at motorway speeds. Riding slower, then yes, I could probably easily do the return on a single charge, but when it comes to traveling to & from work, the quickest route is generally all I look for.
Also, I said once Evoke enter the market in the UK, their prices will be appreciably lower, and, if the mainstream manufacturers get themselves sorted, then they too will help lower the cost.
G is right though, I can see ownership of personal vehicles steadily become a thing of the past, with leasing & uber style operators replacing the need for ownership. From a motorbike perspective, something ike this ..
https://www.evokemotorcycles.com/myevoke
Polarbear wrote: |
And I haven't included the coffees or the inconvenience. |
As I said, don't fancy stopping off at Corley for 1/2 hour on each commute, so, no need to include the coffees
But, I do fancy the convenience of not having to mess about with petrol stations .. ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:50 - 18 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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The reason I said a Chinese bike is that you have immediately saved a couple of grand over a YZF, just about the most expensive 125 going.
You say Chinese bikes can't do the speed of a Zero, yes of course you are right but I bet the Zero can't do the speed a Zero is capable of and still keep the range. If your range on the electric bike was 200 miles I bet the Chinese 125 would have a higher average speed over 200 miles than the electric due to the Zero having to restrict the speed to even get there.
Throw a 300cc bike in the mix - cheaper than a YZF, faster than a Zero and still getting 80mpg.
Of course there are good sides as in no engine maintenance. Still got to do all the rest of the running gear though so really you are saving on an oil change on most services.
Then what if it goes wrong. Burns out an electric motor out of warranty? Fries it's electrical control system? A battery dies? Cheap fix? I very much doubt it.
If it was £3/4000 yes, ok, can understand getting one at that but at £13000? By god I can buy a new Harley for that
The Evoke - Well, with the best will in the world I'll believe that when it happens and I see the cost of ownership/renting.
It is exactly the same problem as car battery exchange in that you will have have say (random figure) 100 stations in a big city, Each station will have to carry a large percentage of the number of Evokes registered in that city in case a whole load come in at the same time wanting exchange.
'I'm sorry Sir, you will have to wait until another bike comes in and we recharge it' isn't going to cut the mustard.
It just isn't going to work. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 19:00 - 18 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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A more reasonable comparison would be something like a Kawasaki J300 at £4500 new (real eBay price, but then we're talking real world) .
A bit more tax, bit more on consumables, bit more on fuel, but better performance I would still be surprised if you'd reach the mileage where the e-bike would pay off.
Obsolete last-generation niche marque electrobikes with unknown battery life will retain how much value in a hypothetical future where prices are coming down and choice is going up? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
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G The Voice of Reason
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 22:25 - 18 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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linuxyeti wrote: | The J300, is fine, however, if you're restricted to an 11KW bike (cbt or A1 license) it's no good |
How many 17 year olds will be dropping £12,000 on an electric motorcycle? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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thx1138 |
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thx1138 World Chat Champion
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AdamEf |
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AdamEf Nova Slayer
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ScaredyCat |
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ScaredyCat World Chat Champion
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G The Voice of Reason
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 15:10 - 19 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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ScaredyCat wrote: | Solar generation is good enough, particularly if you have something like the Tesla Powerwall installed. |
And the great bit is, the death-emissions from all the fossil fuels burned while mining, refining, constructing and shipping those are only breathed in by foreigners, not people.
ScaredyCat wrote: | You'll still get a feed in tariff for 50% of what you generate, even if you give nothing back to the grid. |
You see why this is an unsustainable wheeze, presumably?
Germoney has gone absolutely mad for "renewables", particularly solar.
Their use of fossil fuels is still rising.
Sure, sure, in the future when things work differently to the way they work, things will work differently. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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