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Rogerborg
nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 3)

Posted: 13:45 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

arry wrote:

I also agree with Pigeon though - no-one should be put in a situation of having to choose to engage in sexual activity in order to get a job

Would you criminalise prostitutes or their customers? Could be both, I guess.

How would you show that any waitress-slash-actress had their career ended for rejecting Weinstein, rather than for simply being inadequate as an actress?

McGowan had a limp career even after giving it up, so it's not like he could control audience reception.

There are multiple examples of women who claimed that they smacked him down and then went on to have successful careers as meat puppets.

So who "had" to do it?
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arry
Super Spammer

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 3)

Posted: 13:53 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

Rogerborg wrote:

Would you criminalise prostitutes or their customers? Could be both, I guess.

Of an irrelevance to me in that I have no strong opinion either way. What I do know is that a sex worker expects to get propositioned, and a sex punter expects to make a purchase. There's nothing in that arrangement which puts either party on the spot unexpectedly.

Rogerborg wrote:

How would you show that any waitress-slash-actress had their career ended for rejecting Weinstein, rather than for simply being inadequate as an actress?

That isn't something I need to do or think about. My point was purely that no-one should have to make a choice like that as a result of an abuse of position.

Rogerborg wrote:

There are multiple examples of women who claimed that they smacked him down and then went on to have successful careers as meat puppets.

So who "had" to do it?

All of them 'had' to make a choice; regardless of whether they took the red or the blue pill - the choice was forced on them unexpectedly and as a result of an outright abuse of his position of power. That's repugnant, whichever way you spin it.

I'm 100% confident my missus would have walked out saying not a chance and to hell with the career. I am also, however, 100% confident she'd be absolutely devastated by what had happened and the impact it would have on her career prospects going forward.

If that was your missus, how would you feel about it?

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Rogerborg
nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 3)

Posted: 14:42 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

arry wrote:

There's nothing in that arrangement which puts either party on the spot unexpectedly.

Fresh and unsullied, ingenues all. New in tinseltown. Shocked, they were. "Casting couch? Why, no, never have I ever heard that phrase. To what does it refer, pray tell?"

Rogerborg wrote:

My point was purely that no-one should have to make a choice like that as a result of an abuse of position.

Eh, worse things happen at sea. Mostly to cabin boys.

On the scale of Paul Feig to Roman Polanski, he barely scores a Woody Allen.

Yes, I'd gas him. No, I don't have much sympathy with women who lacked the self respect to walk away, and I have nothing but contempt for anyone who pimped for him on stage.

I'd fare poorly as a White Knight. Sad

arry wrote:

If that was your missus, how would you feel about it?

I'd blame her mother for putting her on the stage. Also, the hypothetical person who might put herself in that situation wouldn't be my missus.
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Jayy
Mr. Ponzi

Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 1)

Posted: 15:29 - 16 Oct 2017 Post subject:

What baffles me even more in situations like this, is people like James Corden who think it's funny to make jokes about it and nobody will bat an eye? Then they have to pretend to publicly apologise and say that their behaviour was inexcusable and they are truly sorry... when they aren't really. I mean come on? What the fuck was he expecting to happen? Mong.

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Polarbear
Super Spammer

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 1)

Posted: 15:40 - 16 Oct 2017 Post subject:

Any publicity is better than no publicity? ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

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MCN
Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 2)

Posted: 15:49 - 16 Oct 2017 Post subject:

It's harassment. Sexual harassment is only one form. It is still rife in almost all places of employment and it should not happen. Perhaps one day in the future people will not understand why it was tolerated for so long in 'modern' times. Or should we start sending small children up chimneys again? ____________________ Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

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grr666
Super Spammer

Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 2)

Posted: 15:56 - 16 Oct 2017 Post subject:

Corden is shitting himself, he will be doing voice over work advertising pay day loans before you know it. The fall from American grace is a long one. ____________________ Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

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Howling Terror
Super Spammer

Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 3)

Posted: 16:57 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

MCN wrote:

It's harassment.

Sexual harassment is only one form.

It is still rife in almost all places of employment and it should not happen.

Perhaps one day in the future people will not understand why it was tolerated for so long in 'modern' times.

Or should we start sending small children up chimneys again?

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Polarbear
Super Spammer

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 1)

Posted: 17:03 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

MCN wrote:

It is rife, but a lot depends what you call harassment.

Your boss says you have to go to a party and butter up a client. If I was asked to do that is it harassment. If a woman was asked to do that could it be classed as sexual harassment? Or is it just 'Keep him happy so we get the contract'?

Oh wait, isn't that what some of the women were choosing to do with Weinstien?

You could class just about anything as harassment.

I don't want to wear a suit. If you don't, you won't get the job. That's harassment, coercing you into doing something you don't want to do.

It happens everywhere, grow balls and stand up to people if you don't like it. Don't give in and moan about it afterwards or you are complicit in encouraging that behaviour.
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M.C
Super Spammer

Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 2)

Posted: 17:36 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

grr666 wrote:

The fall from American grace is a long one.

FFS, I want him to stay over there Mad

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Rogerborg
nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 3)

Posted: 17:53 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

Jayy wrote:

people like James Corden who think it's funny to make jokes about it and nobody will bat an eye?

As above, Tina Fey already did it.

So did Seth MacFarlane.

Lulz were lulled when everyone knew he was doing it, but assumed it was only to generic faceless Z listers on whom we could project imaginary vices that excused it.

But now there's a cavalcade of vapid tarts blubbering about the traumas to their feels, and some of them are that one chick who played that sympathetic character in that film you sort of liked, so it's the horror, the horror.

Double standards ain't the half of it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

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arry
Super Spammer

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 3)

Posted: 20:11 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

Rogerborg wrote:

arry wrote:

There's nothing in that arrangement which puts either party on the spot unexpectedly.

Fresh and unsullied, ingenues all. New in tinseltown. Shocked, they were. "Casting couch? Why, no, never have I ever heard that phrase. To what does it refer, pray tell?"

If you wanted to be an actress then, barring the odd one here and there, it's a choice you make at a relatively young age and your entire schooling is chosen around that decision. That reads like you're insinuating that a fresh faced teenager should know that, if she embarks on a career in acting, she's to be expected to suck off a fat bloke if she wants to make it to the top. That's pretty cold a thought, don't you think?

I'm sure those that went in had heard 'the stories' about casting couches but I would expect at least some went in hoping for the best, and very much fearing for the worst should it occur. That's not an acceptable position to put someone in.

Besides, wind it back a little and think about all the other industries this might apply to. The net casts pretty wide.

Rogerborg wrote:

Eh, worse things happen at sea. Mostly to cabin boys.

On the scale of Paul Feig to Roman Polanski, he barely scores a Woody Allen.

Oh of course, there's always worse things going on in the world - but that shouldn't excuse the guy's actions. Some of the defending comments on here are, frankly, a bit disturbing. For example:

Quote:

Weinstein is and always has been physically repulsive. How else is he going to get laid except by offering potential sexual partners money, film roles or self-advancement?

Oh, I dunno, maybe go on a diet, be charming, treat girls you date with respect and be a nice person?

Rogerborg wrote:

Yes, I'd gas him.

Good - we agree on that entirely.

Rogerborg wrote:

No, I don't have much sympathy with women who lacked the self respect to walk away, and I have nothing but contempt for anyone who pimped for him on stage.

I'd fare poorly as a White Knight. Sad

That sounds a lot like victim blaming Rog; although I do agree and find it hard to pour out much from my sympathy thimble in this particular instance - albeit I can only imagine what it must feel like to be so close to the defining moment in your career and thinking you were just about to break through into the big time, only then to find out that that's only going to happen 'if'. Oh well, only 8 years of acting school, years of low paid acting jobs and working double shifts in retail to make ends meet, down the drain, so to speak.

Rogerborg wrote:

I'd blame her mother for putting her on the stage. Also, the hypothetical person who might put herself in that situation wouldn't be my missus.

A whole industry and generation written off because of people like Weinstein. How sad is that Sad

What if it was a job offer at the end of her (latest) degree course and she'd so desperately wanted it, which is why she studied for it in the first place? You'd be sympathetic to the situation then perhaps?

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Rogerborg
nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 3)

Posted: 21:27 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

arry wrote:

That reads like you're insinuating that a fresh faced teenager should know that, if she embarks on a career in acting, she's to be expected to suck off a fat bloke if she wants to make it to the top. That's pretty cold a thought, don't you think?

It's long been my understanding that big-screen Hollywood is a soulless cess pit of dead eyed users and abusers who only care about what you can do for them.

If you've formed a different opinion, I'd be fascinated to hear what informs it.

arry wrote:

think about all the other industries this might apply to.

Slippery slope manufacturing? I think it's pretty much a Hollywood problem. A few powerful men controlling access to riches beyond the dreams of avarice, thousands upon thousands of desperate young frippets (of all genders) looking for any way to distinguish themselves from the other disposable talents - I honestly can't see any other way that it would work. Not till God makes men of some other metal than earth.

arry wrote:

I can only imagine what it must feel like to be so close to the defining moment in your career and thinking you were just about to break through into the big time, only then to find out that that's only going to happen 'if'. Oh well, only 8 years of acting school, years of low paid acting jobs and working double shifts in retail to make ends meet, down the drain, so to speak.

Thing is, almost all of them are going to fail anyway.

And those who did choose to make the deal with Sweaty Satan didn't seem to fare particularly well out of it.

Rogerborg wrote:

A whole industry and generation written off because of people like Weinstein. How sad is that Sad

Eh, Hollywood is an industrial scale dream-shredder. How many really decent roles are there for the sort of shooting-for-the-stars divas that Weinstein favours? A couple of dozen a year? How many aspirants are going to be wiping tables while their freshness goes sour?

I don't imagine many porn puppets set out for tinseltown with ambitions of being golden showered in the golden hour, but that's what happens to many of those who don't even make it past the regular casting couch, and who are made an unexpected and doubtless unwelcome - at first -
offer.

Who weeps for DP Debbie? Is her repeated debasement not far more publicly tragic than a stubby chubby being waggled at a shrinking violet? Do we not care about Debbie's story because she can't act demure and distressed as well as Weinstein's accusers?

Still, I'm sure you're too woke to have ever watched any porn.

arry wrote:

Sure, if that happened.

Hollywood is different though. It shouldn't work the way that it works, but wishing won't make it so.

Like the fall of Saddam or Gaddafi, Weinstein's considerable vacuum is unlikely to be filled by anything better.

And why would it? How many showbiz wimmins have taken the plunge and set up their own production companies?

OK, Mila Kunis, for one. But how well did it do? Errr...

It's a ruthless, cutthroat business. Are you really surprised that those who make it to the top aren't exactly boy scouts and philanthropists?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

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Snod Blatter
Crazy Courier

Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 1)

Posted: 22:34 - 16 Oct 2017 Post subject:

Weinstein. Wine-steen. Why is it not Wine-stine or Ween-steen? It's spelt the same both ends! The whole thing's a nightmare. ____________________ 1994 CB250, 1984 CBX250RS-E, 1989 K100RS, 1995 TRX850, 2016 Z250SL

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MCN
Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 2)

Posted: 22:58 - 16 Oct 2017

Post subject:

Polarbear wrote:

MCN wrote:

Its not a simple subject and people need training to identify what is harassment and what sort of harassment it is. Employers and employees.
That is part of the problem, not everyone can do that assessment.

Sure it's only banter to have.a laff at the Taffy or the Irishman.. It's all meant well. Or is it? Or is it perceived by everyone as banter.

Some things we all need to man up about but there are a lot of issues that are ignored or thought as 'normal' which we should not allow.

Weinstein knew he was out of order.
Others knew he was too.
But his position of power makes lesser people reluctant to do anything.
That's how it works.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

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