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Polarbear |
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Suntan Sid |
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Suntan Sid World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 10:07 - 19 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Merciful allah, but 48% voted to remain! We've been sold a lie! Someone tell Theresa to un-invoke Article 50. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
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Posted: 10:42 - 19 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Suntan Sid wrote: | mpd72 wrote: | Yep, about 52% of the electorate. |
Now, now, if you're going to quote figures, you need to use the correct figures!
The figure you wanted to use was 37% of the electorate!
The 52% figure is the percentage of those that actually bothered to vote!
HTH! |
Good point, Sid. On a related note, and if I can just quote me sen for a sec here...
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote: | Yes - it was largely Cameron's plan to remove all viable opposition to the Tories. He'd...(snip)... repeatedly made Corbyn look unelectable - thus neutralising the threat from the left. The one remaining challenger was Farrage and UKIP - a threat from the right. Farrage's one main objective was a referendum on withdrawal from the EU (confident the country would vote leave) - so Cameron (confident of a remain vote) believed that by "granting" UKIP their referendum, he'd be able to completely neutralise them and remove them from the political landscape.
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In fact, Cameron did everything right. He was astute, and his political acumen was indisputable. Except for one thing. All he needed to do was attach one small qualifier to his referendum plan; one minor caveat, nothing more.
As The Shaggy DA said at the time, all that was needed was the requirement of a two thirds majority - either of those voting, or more strictly, the entire electorate.
This is a perfectly reasonable requirement - political, common-sensical and practical - given the fundamental seriousness of the issue at stake (indeed, in a system with a written constitution I would guess that it would be an automatic and necessary clause for any development that would lead to a change in the constitution itself - how could it not be, if that constitution has arisen in a representative democracy??).
However Cameron's hubris blinded him to this one simple detail that would have saved (and made!) his political career, ensured the dominance of the Conservative party for a generation, and - arguably - prevented the dire bureaucratic and economic zugzwang that the country finds itself in today.
Of course, it's quite possible that Farage would have disputed the outcome, and remained on the political stage, his constant carping serving as continual irritant to the Tories. But that's all it would have been - an irritant, and a minor one at that. The media and the majority of people would almost certainly grow bored with Farage's rhetoric and regard it as sour grapes, and UKIP would quickly atrophy and die away.
Oh Cameron, you arrogant twit. If you'd just had the nouse to be even vaguely aware of what normal, real, actual human beings thought about the EU, about immigrants, about the shit that affects them on an everyday basis, there's no fucking way on this earth would you've been so gung-ho about the referendum. This is what happens when we elect a member of the ruling classes. ____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125 |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 11:18 - 19 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote: | As The Shaggy DA said at the time, all that was needed was the requirement of a two thirds majority - either of those voting, or more strictly, the entire electorate. |
Sure, if you ignore what happened last time that wheeze was tried. Note the very similar Aye, Oot result to Brexit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979
Playing dirty has resulted in 40 years of disgruntled carping and moaning in Scotchland (I mean, above the normal background levels), culminating in a drip, drip of referenda and the current Scotch Racialist regime that's forever nipping at Westminster's heid.
Camœron thought he could Project Fear the proles into a clear majority for Remain, and that would be an end to it. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Rob Fzs |
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Rob Fzs World Chat Champion
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:58 - 19 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: |
As above.
It's trivial to trot out raw numbers, but the context might matter.
You can imagine that it's 600,000 units of cosy social housing just begging for nurses and teachers to move into them. |
Why not make use of them? After all, the 'free/subsidised' rate of tax on empty properties was done away with, with empty properties now costing up to (I think) 150% of the original charge.
Quote: | But who or what is stopping that from happening?
How many are derelict, and whose money are you volunteering to be spent on fixing them? |
I don't know how it works north of the wall, but down here (or certainly in my area, anyway), the local council were offering interest free grants to renovate houses, on the proviso that they could be rented out for a time period, to ease the housing issues we have.
Quote: | How many have been rendered de facto but not de jure fit for habitation by a change in the standards du jour? |
See above. And also note the lack of punishments dished out to slum landlords who flout the standards.
Quote: | How many have been rendered genuinely uninhabitable by an infestation of Socialist Housing tenants? Will you be cleaning up the needles and faecal decoration? |
You really do despise social housing, don't you?
Quote: | How many are privately owned and therefore it's nobody else's damn business why they are empty? I know Comrade Corbyn would seize them and redistribute them to his acolytes, but let's pretend for a second that property rights still exist. |
When they become empty for a while, and the local ferals start vandalising/shooting up/stripping the valuables, and it has an impact on the neighbours, I think it becomes someone else's business, don't you?
Quote: | When people die, how long does it take for estates to be settled and properties to be sold? Are you advocating turfing families out while the dead deed holder is still warm, and moving in a swarm of illegal criminals? |
Depends how realistic the grasping family are, from experience.
Quote: | It sounds like you're in favour of that. I'll go ahead and assume you are, in much the same way that you assume that all 600,000[citation needed] of those homes are actually available.
You monster. |
If you add the context back into the scheme, you'll notice the bit where I said 'a third are empty for longer than 6 months'.
You're well better to debate with than bnp72. Just don't enemy me if you don't like my points. ____________________ Mpd72: I can categorically say i’m Brighter than that, no matter how I come across on here.
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 13:11 - 19 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote: | You really do despise social housing, don't you? |
I have absolutely nothing against the housing.
By the way, I noticed that you don't actually have the numbers on how many of the 600,000[citation needed] are in each state. So I'll go ahead and assume that the majority have been rendered inhabitable by socialist housing beneficiaries.
Mmmm, bile, tastes so gooood. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Polarbear |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB World Chat Champion
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:55 - 19 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg wrote: | trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote: | As The Shaggy DA said at the time, all that was needed was the requirement of a two thirds majority - either of those voting, or more strictly, the entire electorate. |
Sure, if you ignore what happened last time that wheeze was tried. Note the very similar Aye, Oot result to Brexit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979
Playing dirty has resulted in 40 years of disgruntled carping and moaning in Scotchland (I mean, above the normal background levels), culminating in a drip, drip of referenda and the current Scotch Racialist regime that's forever nipping at Westminster's heid.
Camœron thought he could Project Fear the proles into a clear majority for Remain, and that would be an end to it. |
Yeah he did - that's exactly what I said. His arrogance and ignorance were his undoing. However, if he'd have insisted on a two thirds majority, he could've effectively ignored the issue. Yes, true - the disgruntled carping and moaning would've started in earnest....and carried on for the next X number of decades. But it would become someone else's problem - some young Tory not even out of Oxbridge yet, probably.
Meanwhile Cameron enters the history books as the born and bred leader who steered a steady helm, rather than the out of touch toff who gambled and lost. ____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
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M.C |
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Sun Wukong |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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MCN |
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Posted: 00:33 - 20 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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[quote="Jewlio Rides Again LLB]No point bullshitting. From my experience actually being on these estates that the elitists on BCF think are full of scum, the worst of them seem to be those who bought the houses.[/quote]
Back off the hedge trimming thing.
That's an important enough issue requiring a dedicated thread. ____________________ Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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Suntan Sid |
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Suntan Sid World Chat Champion
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Posted: 10:38 - 20 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Kawasaki Jimbo wrote: | ...........You keep raising this point that only 37% of those entitled to vote chose OUT, but trying to factor in the impenetrable views of a portion of the electorate who couldn't be bothered/didn't mind/didn't care............... |
And many people keep raising the, incorrect, point that 52% of the electorate voted OUT, they didn't, the correct number, as a percentage of the electorate, is 37.
In a situation where the larger number wins, 52% is always going to sound better than 37%.
IMO, the two figures, as a matter of course, are deliberately obfuscated for political purposes!
That is all.
HTH. ____________________ "Everybody needs money, that's why they call it money!" |
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Chalky. |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Posted: 14:27 - 20 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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Chalky. wrote: |
Housing benefits don't get paid directly to landlords any more, it goes via the tenant. And plenty of times, it doesn't end up where it needs to go...
The golden age of direct payments has gone. On top of that, when a DSS tenant needs evicting it's a nightmare. The council actually tells them to stay put until the court proceedings so they don't have to find them emergency accommodation |
Universal credit innit? designed to make Josh and Charlene get used to a monthly salary, should they ever decide to actually work for a living.
All it does unfortunately, is give a large sum of money in one hit, to irresponsible adults to blow in a matter of days, rather than paying the rent and budgeting for the month. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Polarbear |
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Posted: 14:49 - 20 Oct 2017 Post subject: |
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mpd72 wrote: | Chalky. wrote: |
Housing benefits don't get paid directly to landlords any more, it goes via the tenant. And plenty of times, it doesn't end up where it needs to go...
The golden age of direct payments has gone. On top of that, when a DSS tenant needs evicting it's a nightmare. The council actually tells them to stay put until the court proceedings so they don't have to find them emergency accommodation |
Universal credit innit? designed to make Josh and Charlene get used to a monthly salary, should they ever decide to actually work for a living.
All it does unfortunately, is give a large sum of money in one hit, to irresponsible adults to blow in a matter of days, rather than paying the rent and budgeting for the month. |
While I understand your comments, I think the suddenly giving large sums of money to families that have scrimped and lived hand to mouth is asking for trouble. Yes, some will go down the pub or the bookies but others will go and buy that pair of shoes for their kid that they haven't been able to afford, or pay off the catalogue lady who is banging on their door for payment.
Yes, they should budget, but a lot of these people have never learned how to. They are the bottom rung on the ladder in both monetary and probably IQ.
Give a child a sweetie and tell them to save it for when they are really hungry? Aint going to work. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 205 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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