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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 09:25 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing worth considering is that Brexit was a protest vote for some people.

If I end up discussing Brexit with anyone who makes sound points for the Remain side, I always easily reduce it to the ultimate point that if anything it can always be seen as a vote against the establishment. When you have that rubber-mouthed ultra toff "how much is a pint of milk" David Cameron, who's just dragged the country through almost a decade of harsh ideological cuts to almost every public service going, telling us he's on the side of Remain, it really doesn't take much of a push to vote in the exact opposite direction to what he's telling you.

Another point also worth noting is that a lot of the left wing Brexit arguments are remarkably similar to the right wing arguments, which primarily boil down to the way the economy and society is negatively affected by the way the EU is set up. So in a sense it's possible to say that the EU referendum was in fact more of a battle between 'real governance' and neoliberalism, the latter representing the rejection of governance altogether. Hence anyone with a rational political head, regardless of left or right leanings, saw all that was bad about the EU project and voted against it.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
And the benefit of Brexit is?

https://i.imgur.com/W6p2l2i.jpg

Winding up the Huns, Frogs and Waffles. What higher purpose is there?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
MCN wrote:
And the benefit of Brexit is?

https://i.imgur.com/W6p2l2i.jpg

Winding up the Huns, Frogs and Waffles. What higher purpose is there?


And Nicola Sturgeon Thumbs Up
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Nexus Icon wrote:

Seriously, you've forgotten those who are scared of change.


So which side are those on?


Sorry, "impending" change.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Another thing worth considering is that Brexit was a protest vote for some people.


Yep, about 52% of the electorate.

Doesn't mean they did it for shits n giggles though. Some people are pissed off with mass immigration, EU meddling and the way it's quickly heading into a Federal state.

Part of this feeling may have been fuelled by the rapid rise of Liberal Authoritarianism in the UK.


How's that apology you owe coming along?
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Another thing worth considering is that Brexit was a protest vote for some people.


Yep, about 52% of the electorate.

Doesn't mean they did it for shits n giggles though. Some people are pissed off with mass immigration, EU meddling and the way it's quickly heading into a Federal state.

Part of this feeling may have been fuelled by the rapid rise of Liberal Authoritarianism in the UK.


Anyone with a fucking brain cell, or who has travelled anywhere in mainland Europe, would know that many of the stupid motoring, smoking, selling, immigration, etc. laws we have in the UK, although driven by the EU, have been modified to be far more intrusive by the UK courts.

There are covered smoking areas outside cafes, bars and restaurants in Spain, France and Italy. You don't have to buy cigarettes in plain packaging from behind closed cupboard doors, making you feel like you're buying animal porn or something, like you do in the UK.

Italy, among others, have a points system for immigration - no job/savings = no entry.

You can ride mopeds as kids. Helmets? If you like. Motorcyclists are not scum. Everybody has been one at some point.

The shops shut for a couple of hours in the afternoon (sometimes) but you can still buy food after 4pm on a Sunday. What a novel idea.

I could go on but I'm boring myself now.

Suffice to say, there are plenty of valid reasons to leave the EU but the 'fact' that they impose laws and immigration upon us is not one of them. If anything they serve to temper the idiots we have at the top.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:
or who has travelled anywhere in mainland Europe,



Well there that's the problem she's completely unworldly.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
MCN wrote:
And the benefit of Brexit is?

https://i.imgur.com/W6p2l2i.jpg

Winding up the Huns, Frogs and Waffles. What higher purpose is there?


https://i.imgur.com/EKPo3Sg.jpg
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
M.C wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40860657 - please read it or one of the other 20 million articles on the subject Rolling Eyes


I posted that image merely to wind up the people who, explicitly, denied that those words had been used anywhere, ever, never mind on the side of a bus!

HTH.

The only people wound up by it are remoaners (like yourself) Wink

Rogerborg wrote:
In what language does a non-possessive plural require an apostrophe?

Otherwise, splendid rant's.

The language of autocorrect.

MCN wrote:
The reasons this Brexit Clusterfuck came about is because our proletarian do not think much further than their supermarket trolley contents or what's on the Telly tonight.
And the Politicians have always preyed on this part of our community.

The only thing certain is that there will be Hell to Pay.

And the benefit of Brexit is?

Eh? It was Cameron underestimating that electorate that lead to the referendum, no way would he have called one if he thought there was a chance of losing, and no way would anyone with any morals or a shred of integrity have called one in the first place. It's what makes the whole thing hilarious Thumbs Up

The benefit of Brexit is sitting back and watching the widespread butthurt Wink They'll only be hell to pay if certain people get their wish and Brexit negotiations are (deliberately) sabotaged. Otherwise there's too much at stake on both sides for it to fall apart.

Lord Percy wrote:
Another thing worth considering is that Brexit was a protest vote for some people.

Another point also worth noting is that a lot of the left wing Brexit arguments are remarkably similar to the right wing arguments.

Absolutely, but that's always been the case. If you feel disillusioned with (for example) the current government you're going to vote for someone else, just as if you don't see any benefit from us being in the 'European family' you're going to vote oot.

The Brexit campaign was all the same arguments with both sides claiming each issue was a benefit or hindrance to the UK. I doubt any undecided voters were able to make an informed choice, but then I'm fairly certain most people had a preference well before campaigning started.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://i.imgur.com/B1m0t2X.jpg

Probably because they saw it as an issue that has long been coming to be resolved, people didn't all of a sudden decide to vote to leave the EU in the final 6 weeks of the 'vote leave' campaign
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that immigration is quite high on a lot of people's priorities. I don't feel threatened by it in any way, so it's not a big one for me.
The main argument against immigration seems to boil down to "I just don't like the cut of their jib" in the end.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
It seems that immigration is quite high on a lot of people's priorities. I don't feel threatened by it in any way, so it's not a big one for me.
The main argument against immigration seems to boil down to "I just don't like the cut of their jib" in the end.


The problem with immigration is there's nowhere for them to live

so we either deport some of the slackers here, or we cut the numbers

People fucking hate the disruption house building creates, they dont want green fields being built on and thus, 300k net migration a year while we're struggling to find land to build on every year, is not sustainable.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
dydey90 wrote:
It seems that immigration is quite high on a lot of people's priorities. I don't feel threatened by it in any way, so it's not a big one for me.
The main argument against immigration seems to boil down to "I just don't like the cut of their jib" in the end.


The problem with immigration is there's nowhere for them to live

so we either deport some of the slackers here, or we cut the numbers

People fucking hate the disruption house building creates, they dont want green fields being built on and thus, 300k net migration a year while we're struggling to find land to build on every year, is not sustainable.


600,000 empty houses, a third of them for longer than 6 months.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
The main argument against immigration seems to boil down to "I just don't like the cut of their jib" in the end.

Depends where you live. If you live in an area popular with 'new arrivals' it gets a bit tiresome.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
dydey90 wrote:
The main argument against immigration seems to boil down to "I just don't like the cut of their jib" in the end.

Depends where you live. If you live in an area popular with 'new arrivals' it gets a bit tiresome.


I remember bnp72 telling us all how Asda had entire aisles dedicated to Polish food where he lived.

Never proved it though. Shock horror. Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
600,000 empty houses, a third of them for longer than 6 months.

Why?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
M.C wrote:

Depends where you live. If you live in an area popular with 'new arrivals' it gets a bit tiresome.


I remember bnp72 telling us all how Asda had entire aisles dedicated to Polish food where he lived.

Never proved it though. Shock horror. Laughing

Mine has a bit of an aisle, partial credit? Smile
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 23:56 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
600,000 empty houses, a third of them for longer than 6 months.

Why?


Why what?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again wrote:


I remember bnp72 telling us all how Asda had entire aisles dedicated to Polish food where he lived.

Never proved it though. Shock horror. Laughing

Mine has a bit of an aisle, partial credit? Smile


No because mine has a partial aisle. We also have several eastern Europe shops.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ours has 3 whole aisles for world food. Eastern european, Asian and American/Mexican.

However a lot of the food is the same as other aisles, just local packaging as in Basmati rice from some Indian company is in the Asian aisle while Asda Basmati rice is in the rice aisle and half the price. Rolling Eyes

Interesting yes? Wink
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 01:28 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Ours has 3 whole aisles for world food. Eastern european, Asian and American/Mexican.

However a lot of the food is the same as other aisles, just local packaging as in Basmati rice from some Indian company is in the Asian aisle while Asda Basmati rice is in the rice aisle and half the price. Rolling Eyes

Interesting yes? Wink


The 'World food' in our Asda consists of Old El Paso fajita kits, Pataks curry sauces and so on. The polish section has English food but relabeled in Polish.

I must say, I did try the Polish delicacy 'sprats' in tomato ketchup, and thinking they would be like sardines or similar.

I don't know what was different, but it was like eating an ashtray with a big dollop of ketchup. Sick
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 03:09 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:


Anyone with a fucking brain cell, or who has travelled anywhere in mainland Europe, would know that many of the stupid motoring, smoking, selling, immigration, etc. laws we have in the UK, although driven by the EU, have been modified to be far more intrusive by the UK courts.

There are covered smoking areas outside cafes, bars and restaurants in Spain, France and Italy. You don't have to buy cigarettes in plain packaging from behind closed cupboard doors, making you feel like you're buying animal porn or something, like you do in the UK.

Italy, among others, have a points system for immigration - no job/savings = no entry.

You can ride mopeds as kids. Helmets? If you like. Motorcyclists are not scum. Everybody has been one at some point.

The shops shut for a couple of hours in the afternoon (sometimes) but you can still buy food after 4pm on a Sunday. What a novel idea.

I could go on but I'm boring myself now.

Suffice to say, there are plenty of valid reasons to leave the EU but the 'fact' that they impose laws and immigration upon us is not one of them. If anything they serve to temper the idiots we have at the top.


Very good point.

So I guess a lot of Brexit really was a protest vote. People sick of the way their shit Tory overlords and the previous Red Tory Blair brigade had run the show over the past couple of generations - the slow creep of corporatism thanks to incremental deregulation and ultra laissez faire governance, and the slow change of the face of British society thanks to utterly careless immigration controls which smashed our own working classes to bits (and blew up a couple of busses and tube trains) - all down to our own leadership.

Voting to leave the EU was a good, hard boot up the arse of the establishment. Certainly had the desired effect. Tories are in chaos - instead of just sitting there in their perceived rightful place at the top of the social pecking order, hoovering up taxes and paying mere lip service to public needs, they actually have to manage something for once. Ha Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:44 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
[Why are there] 600,000 empty houses, a third of them for longer than 6 months.

Why what?

As above.

It's trivial to trot out raw numbers, but the context might matter.

You can imagine that it's 600,000 units of cosy social housing just begging for nurses and teachers to move into them.

But who or what is stopping that from happening?

How many are derelict, and whose money are you volunteering to be spent on fixing them?

How many have been rendered de facto but not de jure fit for habitation by a change in the standards du jour?

How many have been rendered genuinely uninhabitable by an infestation of Socialist Housing tenants? Will you be cleaning up the needles and faecal decoration?

How many are privately owned and therefore it's nobody else's damn business why they are empty? I know Comrade Corbyn would seize them and redistribute them to his acolytes, but let's pretend for a second that property rights still exist.

When people die, how long does it take for estates to be settled and properties to be sold? Are you advocating turfing families out while the dead deed holder is still warm, and moving in a swarm of illegal criminals?

It sounds like you're in favour of that. I'll go ahead and assume you are, in much the same way that you assume that all 600,000[citation needed] of those homes are actually available.

You monster.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Yep, about 52% of the electorate.


Now, now, if you're going to quote figures, you need to use the correct figures!
The figure you wanted to use was 37% of the electorate!
The 52% figure is the percentage of those that actually bothered to vote!

HTH!
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