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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:36 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
mpd72 wrote:
Yep, about 52% of the electorate.


Now, now, if you're going to quote figures, you need to use the correct figures!
The figure you wanted to use was 37% of the electorate!
The 52% figure is the percentage of those that actually bothered to vote!

HTH!


If people can't be arsed to vote, they have no right in complaining about any result. They know the way it works.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
f people can't be arsed to vote, they have no right in complaining about any result. They know the way it works.


Which still makes the correct figure 37% not 52%!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:07 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merciful allah, but 48% voted to remain! We've been sold a lie! Someone tell Theresa to un-invoke Article 50.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
mpd72 wrote:
Yep, about 52% of the electorate.


Now, now, if you're going to quote figures, you need to use the correct figures!
The figure you wanted to use was 37% of the electorate!
The 52% figure is the percentage of those that actually bothered to vote!

HTH!


Good point, Sid. On a related note, and if I can just quote me sen for a sec here...

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Yes - it was largely Cameron's plan to remove all viable opposition to the Tories. He'd...(snip)... repeatedly made Corbyn look unelectable - thus neutralising the threat from the left. The one remaining challenger was Farrage and UKIP - a threat from the right. Farrage's one main objective was a referendum on withdrawal from the EU (confident the country would vote leave) - so Cameron (confident of a remain vote) believed that by "granting" UKIP their referendum, he'd be able to completely neutralise them and remove them from the political landscape.


In fact, Cameron did everything right. He was astute, and his political acumen was indisputable. Except for one thing. All he needed to do was attach one small qualifier to his referendum plan; one minor caveat, nothing more.

As The Shaggy DA said at the time, all that was needed was the requirement of a two thirds majority - either of those voting, or more strictly, the entire electorate.

This is a perfectly reasonable requirement - political, common-sensical and practical - given the fundamental seriousness of the issue at stake (indeed, in a system with a written constitution I would guess that it would be an automatic and necessary clause for any development that would lead to a change in the constitution itself - how could it not be, if that constitution has arisen in a representative democracy??).

However Cameron's hubris blinded him to this one simple detail that would have saved (and made!) his political career, ensured the dominance of the Conservative party for a generation, and - arguably - prevented the dire bureaucratic and economic zugzwang that the country finds itself in today.

Of course, it's quite possible that Farage would have disputed the outcome, and remained on the political stage, his constant carping serving as continual irritant to the Tories. But that's all it would have been - an irritant, and a minor one at that. The media and the majority of people would almost certainly grow bored with Farage's rhetoric and regard it as sour grapes, and UKIP would quickly atrophy and die away.

Oh Cameron, you arrogant twit. If you'd just had the nouse to be even vaguely aware of what normal, real, actual human beings thought about the EU, about immigrants, about the shit that affects them on an everyday basis, there's no fucking way on this earth would you've been so gung-ho about the referendum. This is what happens when we elect a member of the ruling classes.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
As The Shaggy DA said at the time, all that was needed was the requirement of a two thirds majority - either of those voting, or more strictly, the entire electorate.

Sure, if you ignore what happened last time that wheeze was tried. Note the very similar Aye, Oot result to Brexit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979

Playing dirty has resulted in 40 years of disgruntled carping and moaning in Scotchland (I mean, above the normal background levels), culminating in a drip, drip of referenda and the current Scotch Racialist regime that's forever nipping at Westminster's heid.

Camœron thought he could Project Fear the proles into a clear majority for Remain, and that would be an end to it.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:



600,000 empty houses, a third of them for longer than 6 months.


that's 2 years net migration, where's the rest going to live?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

As above.

It's trivial to trot out raw numbers, but the context might matter.

You can imagine that it's 600,000 units of cosy social housing just begging for nurses and teachers to move into them.


Why not make use of them? After all, the 'free/subsidised' rate of tax on empty properties was done away with, with empty properties now costing up to (I think) 150% of the original charge.

Quote:
But who or what is stopping that from happening?

How many are derelict, and whose money are you volunteering to be spent on fixing them?


I don't know how it works north of the wall, but down here (or certainly in my area, anyway), the local council were offering interest free grants to renovate houses, on the proviso that they could be rented out for a time period, to ease the housing issues we have.

Quote:
How many have been rendered de facto but not de jure fit for habitation by a change in the standards du jour?


See above. And also note the lack of punishments dished out to slum landlords who flout the standards.

Quote:
How many have been rendered genuinely uninhabitable by an infestation of Socialist Housing tenants? Will you be cleaning up the needles and faecal decoration?


Laughing Laughing You really do despise social housing, don't you?

Quote:
How many are privately owned and therefore it's nobody else's damn business why they are empty? I know Comrade Corbyn would seize them and redistribute them to his acolytes, but let's pretend for a second that property rights still exist.


When they become empty for a while, and the local ferals start vandalising/shooting up/stripping the valuables, and it has an impact on the neighbours, I think it becomes someone else's business, don't you?

Quote:
When people die, how long does it take for estates to be settled and properties to be sold? Are you advocating turfing families out while the dead deed holder is still warm, and moving in a swarm of illegal criminals?


Depends how realistic the grasping family are, from experience.

Quote:
It sounds like you're in favour of that. I'll go ahead and assume you are, in much the same way that you assume that all 600,000[citation needed] of those homes are actually available.

You monster.


If you add the context back into the scheme, you'll notice the bit where I said 'a third are empty for longer than 6 months'. Wink

You're well better to debate with than bnp72. Wub Just don't enemy me if you don't like my points. Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
Laughing Laughing You really do despise social housing, don't you?

I have absolutely nothing against the housing. Folded arms

By the way, I noticed that you don't actually have the numbers on how many of the 600,000[citation needed] are in each state. So I'll go ahead and assume that the majority have been rendered inhabitable by socialist housing beneficiaries.

Mmmm, bile, tastes so gooood.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:12 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the only real landlord on here I wonder if grr666 is accepting social tenants in his properties? I would bet he isn't and wouldn't, even with guaranteed rents by the council.

What you haven't worked for, you don't respect is a pretty valid argument for leaving it up to the councils to house the give me's in todays day and age.

The day of a council tenant being proud of his council house are long gone.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
As the only real landlord on here I wonder if grr666 is accepting social tenants in his properties? I would bet he isn't and wouldn't, even with guaranteed rents by the council.

What you haven't worked for, you don't respect is a pretty valid argument for leaving it up to the councils to house the give me's in todays day and age.

The day of a council tenant being proud of his council house are long gone.


Some landlords would take doleys simply because of the guaranteed rents. (A lot more would if the money went directly to the landlord too!)

As someone living in social housing, I take great care of the house and garden, far better than both of my neighbours, who actually own theirs. Indeed, I have a constant battle with the neighbours brambles growing over the fence, and their bindweed which creeps through and under the fence.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
As The Shaggy DA said at the time, all that was needed was the requirement of a two thirds majority - either of those voting, or more strictly, the entire electorate.

Sure, if you ignore what happened last time that wheeze was tried. Note the very similar Aye, Oot result to Brexit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979

Playing dirty has resulted in 40 years of disgruntled carping and moaning in Scotchland (I mean, above the normal background levels), culminating in a drip, drip of referenda and the current Scotch Racialist regime that's forever nipping at Westminster's heid.

Camœron thought he could Project Fear the proles into a clear majority for Remain, and that would be an end to it.


Yeah he did - that's exactly what I said. His arrogance and ignorance were his undoing. However, if he'd have insisted on a two thirds majority, he could've effectively ignored the issue. Yes, true - the disgruntled carping and moaning would've started in earnest....and carried on for the next X number of decades. But it would become someone else's problem - some young Tory not even out of Oxbridge yet, probably.

Meanwhile Cameron enters the history books as the born and bred leader who steered a steady helm, rather than the out of touch toff who gambled and lost.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
The day of a council tenant being proud of his council house are long gone.

Most of it has been sold off.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
Indeed, I have a constant battle with the neighbours brambles growing over the fence, and their bindweed which creeps through and under the fence.


My god, how do you sleep Laughing

Most British post ever Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
mpd72 wrote:
Yep, about 52% of the electorate.


Now, now, if you're going to quote figures, you need to use the correct figures!
The figure you wanted to use was 37% of the electorate!
The 52% figure is the percentage of those that actually bothered to vote!

HTH!

52% of voters then. So slim, but that was the rule. You keep raising this point that only 37% of those entitled to vote chose OUT, but trying to factor in the impenetrable views of a portion of the electorate who couldn't be bothered/didn't mind/didn't care makes no sense unless you are trying to assume all non-votes for Remain. The electorate who didn't vote literally don't count.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
Indeed, I have a constant battle with the neighbours brambles growing over the fence, and their bindweed which creeps through and under the fence.


My god, how do you sleep Laughing

Most British post ever Laughing


No point bullshitting. From my experience actually being on these estates that the elitists on BCF think are full of scum, the worst of them seem to be those who bought the houses.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 00:33 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Jewlio Rides Again LLB]No point bullshitting. From my experience actually being on these estates that the elitists on BCF think are full of scum, the worst of them seem to be those who bought the houses.[/quote]

Back off the hedge trimming thing.

That's an important enough issue requiring a dedicated thread. Rolling Eyes
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
...........You keep raising this point that only 37% of those entitled to vote chose OUT, but trying to factor in the impenetrable views of a portion of the electorate who couldn't be bothered/didn't mind/didn't care...............


And many people keep raising the, incorrect, point that 52% of the electorate voted OUT, they didn't, the correct number, as a percentage of the electorate, is 37.
In a situation where the larger number wins, 52% is always going to sound better than 37%.
IMO, the two figures, as a matter of course, are deliberately obfuscated for political purposes!
That is all.

HTH.
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Chalky.
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:


Some landlords would take doleys simply because of the guaranteed rents. (A lot more would if the money went directly to the landlord too!)



That doesn't happen any more, certainly not in my region.

I try and get poles into my houses where possible, significantly better than scumbag Brits.
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Chalky.
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

TLDR

People voted out because:

- Buttfuck hurt that they're above 40, life hasn't turned out how they wanted and need someone to blame

- Too stupid to realise the way world economics work

- Stuck in the 60s when we were an industrial nation and not a tertiary nation

- Don't like immigrants and love the NHS (which is a beautiful oxymoron)

- Ingerland init
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chalky. wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:


Some landlords would take doleys simply because of the guaranteed rents. (A lot more would if the money went directly to the landlord too!)



That doesn't happen any more, certainly not in my region.

I try and get poles into my houses where possible, significantly better than scumbag Brits.


How do you think slum landlords prosper? They can take the doleys in, knowing that they can't get anywhere else.
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Chalky.
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
Chalky. wrote:
[

That doesn't happen any more, certainly not in my region.

I try and get poles into my houses where possible, significantly better than scumbag Brits.


How do you think slum landlords prosper? They can take the doleys in, knowing that they can't get anywhere else.


Housing benefits don't get paid directly to landlords any more, it goes via the tenant. And plenty of times, it doesn't end up where it needs to go...

The golden age of direct payments has gone. On top of that, when a DSS tenant needs evicting it's a nightmare. The council actually tells them to stay put until the court proceedings so they don't have to find them emergency accommodation
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chalky. wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:


How do you think slum landlords prosper? They can take the doleys in, knowing that they can't get anywhere else.


Housing benefits don't get paid directly to landlords any more, it goes via the tenant. And plenty of times, it doesn't end up where it needs to go...

The golden age of direct payments has gone. On top of that, when a DSS tenant needs evicting it's a nightmare. The council actually tells them to stay put until the court proceedings so they don't have to find them emergency accommodation


I know that, I think it [direct payments] was probably put a stop to maybe 10 years ago or more? But still, slum landlords aren't ones to subscribe to the rules themselves, are they? Lets be honest...
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Chalky. wrote:

Housing benefits don't get paid directly to landlords any more, it goes via the tenant. And plenty of times, it doesn't end up where it needs to go...

The golden age of direct payments has gone. On top of that, when a DSS tenant needs evicting it's a nightmare. The council actually tells them to stay put until the court proceedings so they don't have to find them emergency accommodation


Universal credit innit? designed to make Josh and Charlene get used to a monthly salary, should they ever decide to actually work for a living.

All it does unfortunately, is give a large sum of money in one hit, to irresponsible adults to blow in a matter of days, rather than paying the rent and budgeting for the month.


While I understand your comments, I think the suddenly giving large sums of money to families that have scrimped and lived hand to mouth is asking for trouble. Yes, some will go down the pub or the bookies but others will go and buy that pair of shoes for their kid that they haven't been able to afford, or pay off the catalogue lady who is banging on their door for payment.

Yes, they should budget, but a lot of these people have never learned how to. They are the bottom rung on the ladder in both monetary and probably IQ.

Give a child a sweetie and tell them to save it for when they are really hungry? Aint going to work.
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