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Scamming scammers

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What would you do?
Scam the scammers and chuckle all the way to the PayPal bank
74%
 74%  [ 38 ]
Play fair, suck it up, it's the British way
11%
 11%  [ 6 ]
I prefer to be honestly ripped off on AliExpress
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Carefully vet every seller, report to eBay, add them to your blocked buyers list and hope that stops them showing as sellers, then go through page after page of listings to find the first one that might actually be located in the UK (joke option)
7%
 7%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 51

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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Aliexpress is more than fine.

Thanks. So is it basically pretty similar to buying-it-now on eBay? I've had plenty of cheapo Chinese stuff in the past with no complaints but can't think I've ever spent much more than a fiver on anything. What's the threshold for paying Customs duty; how much is it and does that work? Is it the luck of the draw as to whether you get tugged to pay it?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My association of likeminded and almost paid as much as an accountant types requires me to follow the spirit of the law and not the letter, unlike you legal types.

No option for that.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Pjay wrote:
Aliexpress is more than fine.

Thanks. So is it basically pretty similar to buying-it-now on eBay? I've had plenty of cheapo Chinese stuff in the past with no complaints but can't think I've ever spent much more than a fiver on anything. What's the threshold for paying Customs duty; how much is it and does that work? Is it the luck of the draw as to whether you get tugged to pay it?


I've never had to pay any duty, but I've only purchased cheap items under £10. I'm not sure of the threshold.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Freddyfruitbat wrote:

Thanks. So is it basically pretty similar to buying-it-now on eBay? I've had plenty of cheapo Chinese stuff in the past with no complaints but can't think I've ever spent much more than a fiver on anything. What's the threshold for paying Customs duty; how much is it and does that work? Is it the luck of the draw as to whether you get tugged to pay it?


I've never had to pay any duty, but I've only purchased cheap items under £10. I'm not sure of the threshold.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

I think also you have to owe a certain amount for them to bother with it (so there's a bit more wiggle room).
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MCN
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:


I've never had to pay any duty, but I've only purchased cheap items under £10. I'm not sure of the threshold.


Duty.

I bought stuff for £26 Inc p&p from Japan. PacelFarce raped me for handling at this end. UK duty was about £6 but parcelforce handling was £15 (the bastirts).

I don't know what the rules are for applying duty as I have received loads of stuff from outside Europe and I've not noticed if any import duty was applied.
Is it a random thing?

Ali Express have long delivery if from China by free post but they will post 'par avion' if you pay. And even that charge is reasonable.
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janner_10
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm more shocked people still use eBay.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

janner_10 wrote:
I'm more shocked people still use eBay.


I use it more as a free catalogue/brochure. Smile
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 19 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Is it a random thing?

Check the linky. The problem I found is you don't know if they're going to mark it as a 'gift'.

janner_10 wrote:
I'm more shocked people still use eBay.

What's the alternative? I still find the majority of my stuff on there, especially parts from breakers.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 00:25 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
MCN wrote:
Is it a random thing?

Check the linky. The problem I found is you don't know if they're going to mark it as a 'gift'.

janner_10 wrote:
I'm more shocked people still use eBay.

What's the alternative? I still find the majority of my stuff on there, especially parts from breakers.


I think random as I have bought stuff from China Japan USA and not been asked for duty.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:45 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once got utterly HUMPED for duty and fees on a couple of wooly hats from Canada.

The two together came to slightly more than the duty threshold so I got 20% of the cost price plus fees. Came to more than the hats. If they had been sent seperately, I wouldn't have had to pay.

Oddly enough, I buy quite a lot of motorcycle spares from India. I've not had to pay duty on any of them yet but it turns out the duty rate for motor parts from India is about 3% because historically a lot of parts for British cars and motorcycles were made in India.

The real bunfight is if you get something imported through one of the big ports like harwich. There are a load of customs agents who circle like vultures round each consignment and grab packages. You are then at their mercy as to the fees they decide to charge. The way round it is to pre-arrange the import handling with a specific company and (and this is the tricky bit) get the exporter to clearly and boldly mark the outside of the package stating that it is to be handled by that company.

It'll invariably be grabbed by someone else but when they contact you to demand payment, you then tell them to do-one, my company is handling the import, it's clearly marked as such and they'll be over to your depot directly to retrieve it. Humptiness ensues.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 20 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfectly acceptable behaviour. If the seller claims to be in the UK, and is really in China, the goods are free.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is shitty behaviour, personally.

Life is too short, read the auction and set your filter better.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
I think it is shitty behaviour, personally.

All round.

Sun Wukong wrote:
Life is too short, read the auction and set your filter better.

eBay does not provide a mechanism to filter out these fraudsters. Life is too short to manually click through (for some items) hundreds of fraudulent listings in order to find the shrinking minority of honest British sellers.

I think of it as meta-morality. If I can't reward the honest, I can at least punish fraudsters in the hope that they'll cease their predatory scams.


Robby wrote:
Perfectly acceptable behaviour. If the seller claims to be in the UK, and is really in China, the goods are free.

Ooh, I need a long cold drink after that dryness. I can barely manage a Razz
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I read that right, you're ordering goods, receiving them, then fraudulently claiming a refund.

If that's right, then you're a thief, in my eyes.

I don't really understand what you're making of the difference between British sellers and Chinese sellers. We're all humans.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:12 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

barrkel wrote:
If I read that right, you're ordering goods, receiving them, then fraudulently claiming a refund.

Yes, that's it exactly. Ooh, the next one can be actioned tomorrow, super. Drooling


barrkel wrote:
IIf that's right, then you're a thief, in my eyes.

Well finally, a direct answer.

I felt a tiny moral twinge when I did the first one, but now I don't even read the inevitable "Dear friend [not our problem]" response any more when I file the not received.

Now I just view it as playing the system, exactly as they do. After all, if eBay / PayPal wanted them to stop, they'd prevent them from doing it or provide filtering tools to allow me to avoid it. Stopping them from scamming me would stop me from scamming them.

By the way, I've never, ever had one of these fraudsters voluntarily refund goods even when they've genuinely not arrived. They have no concept of honour or fair play beyond what they're forced to do.

I realise that none of that makes what I'm doing right. It's just that I've stopped caring after having learned how the rest of the world works. It's a very inclusive, globalist outlook, really - I'm almost[*] fully embracing their rich, diverse culture and way of doing business.


barrkel wrote:
I don't really understand what you're making of the difference between British sellers and Chinese sellers. We're all humans.

The distinction is between honest sellers, and fraudulent ones who are stealing business from the honest ones.

[*] Please be clear, I'm not seeking out fraudulent sellers, I'm filtering by UK stock and generally finding that the first hundred+ items are being sold by scammers.

I'd never, ever do this to an honest seller, whether that's UK listing as UK stock, or Chinese listing as Chinese stock.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another package arrived from Aliexpress today, saving me a nice amount of monies once again.
https://oi66.tinypic.com/357myqb.jpg
Purchased on september 30th, so 3 weeks in total
4x these costing me £2.27 delivered:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3D-printer-E3D-V6-Extra-Nozzle-Stainless-Steel-Nozzle-0-25mm-0-4mm-0-8mm-for/32504009248.html

These are instead of buying the genuine items from E3D at £60 + P&P for the 4:
https://e3d-online.com/nozzles-for-3d-printer/v6-nozzles

There is little better in life than beating the banker.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the delivery times, it's not hard.

What you're doing is theft, as mentioned.

Are you genuinely only doing this for things that turn up long after their declared date? I think not.

All crime/morally vacuumed behaviour gets easier with repitition, that's just the human brain. Your coscience no doubt tweaked you in to making this thread.

You are cutting in the bottom line of a business ran by students and proles, already ran on wafer thin margins, to assert your power to do so.

The problem is their saturated market, and your behaviour may cause the dodgier end to exit… well done. However, be under no illusions that you are the good guy.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
Check the delivery times, it's not hard.

On the first hundred listings?


Sun Wukong wrote:
Are you genuinely only doing this for things that turn up long after their declared date? I think not.

No, I do it for anything that's fraudulently listed that I choose to order out of pragmatism.

For clarity:

Arrow If I sort by UK stock and find a real UK item fairly quickly at a reasonable price, I'll buy that, no problem.
Arrow If I can find UK stock but don't fancy the prices, I'll sort globally, then buy whatever's cheapest and honestly listed from the Far East, no problem.
Arrow If I sort by UK stock but the first $MANY listing are Chinese fraudsters and I can't find UK stock within a few minutes of investigating listings, I'll buy from the cheapest fraudster, and do a refund as soon as possible irrespective of if or when it turns up.



Sun Wukong wrote:
All crime/morally vacuumed behaviour gets easier with repitition, that's just the human brain. Your coscience no doubt tweaked you in to making this thread.

I don't feel a twinge now. That's why I'm curious if anyone does, to see how long it takes for a British sense of fair play to revert to the default global / politician standard of morality that anything you can get away with is fine.


Sun Wukong wrote:
You are cutting in the bottom line of a business ran by students and proles

I have no way of knowing that. I do know that they're scammers.

Sun Wukong wrote:
The problem is their saturated market, and your behaviour may cause the dodgier end to exit… well done.

Why, thank you, you're welcome.

Sun Wukong wrote:
However, be under no illusions that you are the good guy.

But, you just said...

No, I'm not. It bothers me less than I once thought that it might though.

I guess the outstanding moral question is: should I be a hypocrite, lie to my kids, and teach them to trust people?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally, if you have to justify an action that action's dubious Smile
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poppycock.

BNP72 should justify his irrational feelings of hatred towards everyone better than him.

So, everyone, basically.
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Fisty
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 24 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paid for a pair of levers for the busa.

"UK stock, 24 hour dispatch"

Turns out they are coming from China
"!estimate delivery friend 12-24 November"

I think they will be geting the borg treatment.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 24 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fisty wrote:
Paid for a pair of levers for the busa.

"UK stock, 24 hour dispatch"


This is just blatant lying.

Fisty wrote:

Turns out they are coming from China
"!estimate delivery friend 12-24 November"

I think they will be geting the borg treatment.


They deserve everything they get (or dont get as it turns out).
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Fisty
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 24 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkeye1250FA wrote:
Fisty wrote:
Paid for a pair of levers for the busa.

"UK stock, 24 hour dispatch"


This is just blatant lying.

Fisty wrote:

Turns out they are coming from China
"!estimate delivery friend 12-24 November"

I think they will be geting the borg treatment.


They deserve everything they get (or dont get as it turns out).


Yup, I ordered some last week I knew were coming from china, they arrived in 5 days but are a bit too short and for £13 were worth the risk.
This time I wanted to go for something in the UK. Sadly they are not.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 24 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fisty wrote:
I think they will be geting the borg treatment.

You'll feel a tingle in the conscience the first time, but it soon passes.

Be sure to leave -ve feedback as well, and when you get the "Contact us first all problem be resolve!!!" response, be sure to follow up (login via ebay.com because racism) with something inventive.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 24 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I advertised an item as "UK seller, 24h dispatch" at £2 more expensive than the Chinese ones then drop-shipped it from a Hong Kong seller who dispatched it immediately, it would all be technically true.

Just saying.

The DELIVERY date is the important one.
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