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welding or liquid metal? vtr engine borked

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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 31 Oct 2017    Post subject: welding or liquid metal? vtr engine borked Reply with quote

Vtr chain snapped and twatted the sprocket cover which has the clutch piston on it too...

snapped all the bolt threads off the damn case

weld?
liquid metal?
ratchet strap around it? Very Happy

what do... its only got to take the pressure of the clutch piston.

avoiding having to replace the engine, its a monoblock so case isnt in the question.


https://i.imgur.com/pyIG64H.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ET1bFna.jpg
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 00:35 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate to say, but that looks like a replacement engine would be your best bet. Just maybe it can be welded. Everything would have to be scrupulously clean and that old chain grease gets right into the pores of the alloy. The clutch slave exerts quite a high pressure on the metalwork, it needs to be solid.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ballbags.. seemed it was a failure of the chain rivet link that caused it.

possible but looks hard i could even get a ratchet strap around the engine for now.. i work way too much to get time to contemplate replacing the engine for a 3rd time.
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despined_By_Ex wrote:
ballbags.. seemed it was a failure of the chain rivet link that caused it.

possible but looks hard i could even get a ratchet strap around the engine for now.. i work way too much to get time to contemplate replacing the engine for a 3rd time.


You are Bodyguard and I claim my five ponds.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 01:16 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Despined_By_Ex wrote:
ballbags.. seemed it was a failure of the chain rivet link that caused it.

possible but looks hard i could even get a ratchet strap around the engine for now.. i work way too much to get time to contemplate replacing the engine for a 3rd time.


You are Bodyguard and I claim my five ponds.


nah bodyguard would pry the engine out with the forks.

only needs to get me to work and back for another week then i have a week holiday so actually get time to address it.
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 02:17 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus what a mess.

If (and it's a big if) a professional welder/business took that on the first thing they would say is no guarantees and give us your money first.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 02:22 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

no clue how it did all mounts, i was doing about 25-30 if that when it went, looked a right cunt as i overtook a corsa only to rev the shit out of it when the chain went bye byes

only other thing i can think of is longer bolts and tap into whats left...
and hope like fuck

generic image shows a decent length to tap into..
https://i.imgur.com/GFbxtl1.png

if i could get deep enough i could liquid metal on the parts i have and then use longer bolts...

its only got to last me a few months until i replace it with the winter steed of 4 wheels

3 i can drill and tap with loads left...
1 is a bit risky
and 1 is quite fucked and doubtful.. i could maybe add... 3-4 turns on whats left and chemical metal the broken part on and hope it holds just for extra strength...

otherwise the 3/4 will hold fairly well..
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mention this every time one of these comes up and nobody seems to take it on.

Aluminium solder will fix that. You'll be able to bridge that small hole and solder the bits back on. You'll need a good source of heat like MAP or oxy-acetylene.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I mention this every time one of these comes up and nobody seems to take it on.

Aluminium solder will fix that. You'll be able to bridge that small hole and solder the bits back on. You'll need a good source of heat like MAP or oxy-acetylene.


Can you literally solder it like you would a copper pipe? Flux, heat and melt it, it'll suck it in? Thats interesting to know. Thumbs Up
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:


Can you literally solder it like you would a copper pipe? Flux, heat and melt it, it'll suck it in? Thats interesting to know. Thumbs Up


It's probably closer to brazing. You clean and degrease the area, match the edges then go over the whole area you want the solder to key to with a stainless wire brush (don't know why, but it has to be stainless). You then heat the piece and rub the stick/rod of solder on. When it's hot enough, the solder flows into the metal.

One odd property is it will bridge a sizeable hole. It forms a kind of "bubble" that doesn't drop through.

Video is kind of slow but definately instructive:

https://youtu.be/n1njyuPBIH0
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

that looks interesting... how much stress can it cope with though?

drilling out a bit deeper and threaded with m6 on 3/5 holes so far.. 1 i think it beyond saving but annoyingly its one for the clutch piston itself so im not sure i trust 2/3 bolts holding it on for now...

only time shall tell
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despined_By_Ex wrote:
that looks interesting... how much stress can it cope with though?


Allen Millyard joins his crankcases with lumiweld. So lots.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 15:15 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despined_By_Ex wrote:
mentalboy wrote:


You are Bodyguard and I claim my five ponds.


nah bodyguard would pry the engine out with the forks.


Bodyguard's engine is in one piece, and he doesn't need a third
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday we had an aluminium part on an exhibit fail directly above an aluminium soldered joint. In other words the joint held but the metal failed.

If done right it's as strong as the metal it would seem.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

managed to bodge it, now to run this bike into the ground.

drilled and tapped what was left, metal putty the broken parts back on for asthetics and added a little thick aluminium bracket from the stator cover bolt to the bolt that holds the clutch piston to the sprocket cover for that extra bit of support just in case.
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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A100man
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despined_By_Ex wrote:
managed to bodge it, now to run this bike into the ground.

drilled and tapped what was left, metal putty the broken parts back on for asthetics and added a little thick aluminium bracket from the stator cover bolt to the bolt that holds the clutch piston to the sprocket cover for that extra bit of support just in case.


Come on let's see it then. I am nothing if not a bodge connoisseur..
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
Despined_By_Ex wrote:
managed to bodge it, now to run this bike into the ground.

drilled and tapped what was left, metal putty the broken parts back on for asthetics and added a little thick aluminium bracket from the stator cover bolt to the bolt that holds the clutch piston to the sprocket cover for that extra bit of support just in case.


Come on let's see it then. I am nothing if not a bodge connoisseur..


nothing much to see, 1 bolt still to go in but waiting on putty to set

looks normal just the aluminium bracket is new
https://i.imgur.com/nwdIZ3F.jpg
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually..... That should work! The only stress point is the clutch slave, the rest just cosmetic. I applaud!
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ZRX61
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PostPosted: 00:12 - 02 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd weld it if it was mine.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 00:52 - 02 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Despined_By_Ex wrote:
that looks interesting... how much stress can it cope with though?


Allen Millyard joins his crankcases with lumiweld. So lots.


I'll put money on his crankcases being aluminium, that case is magnesium alloy which is a complete and utter bastard to weld/solder/braze.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 01:28 - 02 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top bodge Thumbs Up
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 02 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
Top bodge Thumbs Up


I agree, paint the bracket black and then flog it on ebay, 'Good condition'. No one can come and see it because of ebay rules so your quids in.





I am jesting, obviously Laughing
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 02 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

just need to get the other bolt in as i managed to drill it fractionally off to one side, not surprising as i was drilling onto a slanted surface.
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 03 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

got the bolt in, trimmed the bracket and painted it Very Happy

https://i.imgur.com/mpgJ2dZ.jpg
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:07 - 03 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeez.. is no fucker going to mention the elephant in the room here or what?

That hooring front sprocket.... WTF? Shocked

Get a chain and sprocket set onto that beast ASAP. Rolling Eyes

Well some cnut had to say it.

Very Happy
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