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pimmo2000
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 07 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 12 Oct 2017    Post subject: Starter issues Reply with quote
So the bike would start when the clutch was pulled in, or the box in neutral on just the turn of the key, I found a split wire on the starter cable and replaced the switch, up until today all was well and then it did it again.

Anyone got any ideas please?
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Polarbear
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 12 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you mean start without pressing the starter button?
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Chris45
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 23 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 12 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Anyone got any ideas please?


One idea might be to let us know the make/model/year as this may have some bearing on the matter Smile

Initial thoughts are a short circuit between the starter button and relay, possibly via the starter relay diode, usually located in the junction box. Get your voltmeter out and start testing the wiring circuit.
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arry
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Joined: 03 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 13 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: Starter issues Reply with quote
pimmo2000 wrote:
So the bike would start when the clutch was pulled in, or the box in neutral on just the turn of the key, I found a split wire on the starter cable and replaced the switch, up until today all was well and then it did it again.

Anyone got any ideas please?


Pretty normal. Combination of side-stand switches, clutch switches and gear position switches that mean you can't get into trouble trying to turn the bike over in gear and ending up on your side.

https://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/185963-clutch-switch-disable-quick-and-dirty-method.html

Quote:
Clutch switch disable - quick and dirty method
I've disabled the clutch switch (the one that inhibits the starter until the clutch is pulled) on every bike I have had, where one was fitted. Basically, I find it convenient to be able to start the bike one-handed, and I see no benefit in the switch at all.
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pimmo2000
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 07 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 13 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: Starter issues Reply with quote
arry wrote:
pimmo2000 wrote:
So the bike would start when the clutch was pulled in, or the box in neutral on just the turn of the key, I found a split wire on the starter cable and replaced the switch, up until today all was well and then it did it again.

Anyone got any ideas please?


Pretty normal. Combination of side-stand switches, clutch switches and gear position switches that mean you can't get into trouble trying to turn the bike over in gear and ending up on your side.

https://www.triumphrat.net/sprint-forum/185963-clutch-switch-disable-quick-and-dirty-method.html

Quote:
Clutch switch disable - quick and dirty method
I've disabled the clutch switch (the one that inhibits the starter until the clutch is pulled) on every bike I have had, where one was fitted. Basically, I find it convenient to be able to start the bike one-handed, and I see no benefit in the switch at all.



No I've not explained it well..

OK so the bike won't start in gear or with the stand down whist in gear etc that's fine. However to start a bike you press the starter button, on my bike as long as the ignition is on the bike will start without pressing the starter button when in neutral or when the clutch is pulled in.

So it's essentially permanently engaging the starter switch.

It's an aprilia shiver 09 GT
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pimmo2000
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 07 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 13 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Do you mean start without pressing the starter button?


Yes
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jaffa90
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 14 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
From what you say the starter relay switch / contacts are energised all the time or welded together and will not release.
Check for a switch feed when turning the key only,
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 07:06 - 14 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
jaffa90 wrote:
From what you say the starter relay switch / contacts are energised all the time or welded together and will not release.
Check for a switch feed when turning the key only,


Ignore this dullard, he talks rubbish.

As the starter from your description engages whenever the clutch is engaged or the bike is in neutral, not all the time then it won't be a starter relay problem. What it will be is more than likely a problem with the actual starter switch permanently engaged via either a dodgy button or a wiring problem somewhere in the circuit.
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doggone
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2004
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PostPosted: 08:51 - 14 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
It reminds me of an incident where my bike had gone over in mud and next morning it was sticky enough to hold the button in continuously - until it was teased out and operated a few times with ignition off.
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jaffa90
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Joined: 06 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 14 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
""""What it will be is more than likely a problem with the actual starter switch permanently engaged via either a dodgy button or a wiring problem somewhere in the circuit.""""
I`ve just said that sickpup.
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Tracer1234
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 14 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
jaffa90 wrote:
From what you say the starter relay switch / contacts are energised all the time or welded together and will not release.
Check for a switch feed when turning the key only,


Ignore this dullard, he talks rubbish.

As the starter from your description engages whenever the clutch is engaged or the bike is in neutral, not all the time then it won't be a starter relay problem. What it will be is more than likely a problem with the actual starter switch permanently engaged via either a dodgy button or a wiring problem somewhere in the circuit.


Pressure sure jaffa90 said the exact thing, although not exactly very clearly.
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Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 07:21 - 15 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tracer1234 wrote:
Pressure sure jaffa90 said the exact thing, although not exactly very clearly.


No he didn't he said

jaffa90 wrote:
From what you say the starter relay switch / contacts are energised all the time or welded together and will not release.
Check for a switch feed when turning the key only,


And as a relay is a switch he would have led the OP on a wild goose chase.

jaffa90 wrote:
""""What it will be is more than likely a problem with the actual starter switch permanently engaged via either a dodgy button or a wiring problem somewhere in the circuit.""""
I`ve just said that sickpup.


There is a big difference between a starter switch/button and a starter relay switch.
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pimmo2000
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 07 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: 06:05 - 16 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's not the switch, I've replaced that already, assuming it's further down the wiring then Sad
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Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 08:33 - 16 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unplug the switch wiring from the starter solenoid, and test for a short circuit back to the switch. If there's a short then have a look at the wiring loom where it runs round the headstock to start with - that's a common place for abrasion to occur.

If there's no short then your starter solenoid is the next suspect.
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Chris45
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 23 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Unplug the switch wiring from the starter solenoid, and test for a short circuit back to the switch. If there's a short then have a look at the wiring loom where it runs round the headstock to start with - that's a common place for abrasion to occur.

If there's no short then your starter solenoid is the next suspect.


Agreed.

As I mentioned MUCH earlier on in the thread...

Quote:
Initial thoughts are a short circuit between the starter button and relay, possibly via the starter relay diode, usually located in the junction box. Get your voltmeter out and start testing the wiring circuit.


Quote:
contacts are energised all the time or welded together and will not release.


Have seen that happen on a '84 Suzuki many years ago, so it is a possibility, but let's start at the beginning and look for a short in the starter circuit/wiring.
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pimmo2000
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 07 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
it's been in the garage for 6 days now and he's had no luck finding the issue.
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Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
pimmo2000 wrote:
it's been in the garage for 6 days now and he's had no luck finding the issue.


Seriously? He's either incompetent or spinning you a line. It should be a pretty quick job to trace the problem with a multimeter for anyone that knows how to use one.
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Polarbear
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have to agree with Islander.

While some electrical faults can be a right bastard to find, this fault on a simple starter motor circuit shouldn't be difficult to isolate. It might take time to get the bits to fix it, but not to find it.
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Chris45
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 23 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 21 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
While some electrical faults can be a right bastard to find, this fault on a simple starter motor circuit shouldn't be difficult to isolate.


Let's not be too hard on the guy, we all started out with varying levels of (in)competence and if anyone had thrust a multimeter in my hands years back and told me to test this, that or the other I'd have walked away... Incidentally my bike was recently off the road for a week with an electrical issue until I traced it to the sidestand switch. Testing circuits in the gloom of a garage after work is not my idea of a good time, however Nobby nailed it early on in my post but I missed that bit, so he does have some use after all! I won't taste his salty nuts tho Laughing
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pimmo2000
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 07 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 01 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
so 16 days later and £70 worse off I took the bike to another garage ..

Sad
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The last post was made 8 years, 85 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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