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New V4 Panigale

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Jayy
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

you realise they are really the bike world's answer to something like Maserati. Not the fastest, not the best but people will pay twice the price of a similar bike just to have an italian brand.


Simply not true.

I have an 2016 RSV4 RF which were £18k new ( I got it for £15K new in February 2017 ).

I had the 1299 for nearly 2 years too ( paid £17k ) and it was just as quick as all my mates similarly priced / spec Kwaks / Yams / BMWs, etc.

So stop talking shit.
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P.
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:
I had the 1299 for nearly 2 years too ( paid £17k )

It was just as quick as all my mates similarly priced / spec Kwaks / Yams / BMWs, etc.

So stop talking shit.


It'll be just as quick at 300cc more and that italian design.

I like it, but its not going to be faster all round than my 7 grand bike. Sad
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

That is what they want to be I think, however when you have a BMW and a Kawasaki with similar performance for about half the price, you realise they are really the bike world's answer to something like Maserati. Not the fastest, not the best but people will pay twice the price of a similar bike just to have an italian brand.


It was the insinuation that you're paying double for no good reason, which is not true. We're talking about brand new bikes here, not buying a 2nd hand 1999 turbo busa that could take the piss out of it for 1/3 of the cost.

Pretty much all new supersports in the 1,000cc class are 14 - 20 grand and the V4 Panigale is also in that bracket, so not twice the price of the competition.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 19:28 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Performance bikes did a bit of tweaking to a 2008 blade, and it's within .2 of a second of a Panigale around Donnington with Michael Rutter riding.

I don't think that's worth the extra 10k asking price. Would you notice .2 of a second on the road? No. Would the difference be as great with a less skilled rider on board? Probably not.

Interestingly their fastest bike around Donnington happens to be an RSV4.

My point is that the USP of a Ferrari is that it's so much faster than most other cars it's unreal. Short of a McLaren or a Lambo you've got a quick thing.

The Ducati is basically Ferrari price with BMW performance. Waste of cash.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^Yeah but that BMW be so fugly. Razz It is an ugg of a bike.

Aye BMW is 1 hellova package..mind boggingly good..so good that I purposely didn't ride 1 before getting the 'under powered' and old fashioned F4.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
^^^Yeah but that BMW be so fugly. Razz It is an ugg of a bike.

Aye BMW is 1 hellova package..mind boggingly good..so good that I purposely didn't ride 1 before getting the 'under powered' and old fashioned F4.


750 or 1000?

I'm starting to think one of the earlier 750s might be the more classic bike to have. They're beautiful and make a great noise. They don't go fast enough for the crap fuel injection and questionable handling to matter. (actually from what I understand they handle ok if properly set up and maintained.)
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 750 is the one..( Wub ) but I sussed their fueling and electrics were lacking, I searched the MV forums and found the +2010 F4 1000s were the ones to get for 'reliability'.

The F4 is a remarkable bike and those 750 F4s are iconic.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 21:12 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
The 750 is the one..( Wub ) but I sussed their fueling and electrics were lacking, I searched the MV forums and found the +2010 F4 1000s were the ones to get for 'reliability'.

The F4 is a remarkable bike and those 750 F4s are iconic.



A friend of mine has an F4 1000 Senna. It's worked for about five minutes in the ten or so years he's owned it.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

They (MV) have the habit of ignoring feedback then releasing fixes as new features....Quite BMW in that respect.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

I don't think that's worth the extra 10k asking price. Would you notice .2 of a second on the road? No. Would the difference be as great with a less skilled rider on board? Probably not.


And that's it right there, just down to your personal taste.

Can you tell the time with a £30 watch Vs. a £30,000 Rolex? They both do the job.

Those Ducatis are like pieces of art to me, they look fucking amazing, it's not about how much bang for buck you can get. I could buy 3 bikes for the same cash, Supersport, Supermoto & a Dirtbike but I don't want to, that's not my thing.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:

Those Ducatis are like pieces of art to me, they look fucking amazing, it's not about how much bang for buck you can get. I could buy 3 bikes for the same cash, Supersport, Supermoto & a Dirtbike but I don't want to, that's not my thing.


Why do you think I have four bikes, a car and no debt?

Why not admit then, that you like it because it's a nice thing, rather than for it's capabilities?

For me, I'd be terrified of riding it in case it was stolen, I crashed it, or drop it or whatever.

I love riding my CBR, because it owes me next to nothing and I suspect it's been pre-crashed multiple times. If I had a 10k+ bike, I'd be terrified.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

Why not admit then, that you like it because it's a nice thing, rather than for it's capabilities?


I have multiple bikes too but I tell you this... riding a brand new 200+ bhp bike is fucking leaps and bounds different than a 10 year old CBR or something.

Not just about speed, it's about everything else on the bike.

As for an admission there... I never said I didn't buy them for being nice things but they are more than capable too.

Suggest you test ride some of the 200bhp rockets about and then tell me how different an experience it is. Anyone can buy a rocket and do 200mph in a straight line.
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asta1
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:


My point is that the USP of a Ferrari is that it's so much faster than most other cars it's unreal. Short of a McLaren or a Lambo you've got a quick thing.


I always thought the USP of a Ferrari was that it's a Ferrari. You wouldn't buy a Ferrari based on perfromance/£.

Take the new Californa for instance.
£155K, 553bhp, 0-62 3.6sec, top speed 196mph

Quick, sure. But compare it to an F type SVR.
£110K, 567bhp, 0-62 3.5sec, top speed 200mph

or a Nissan GT-R
£80K, 565bhp, 0-62 2.9sec, top speed 191mph.

So you can have a baby Ferrari for £155k in the most basic specification or a quicker, top spec Jag, the new Ducati and a Ford focus for the same money.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 22:34 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've ridden 150bhp bikes... Too much for the road. As I said before, exhilarating, not fun.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 22:36 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

asta1 wrote:
I always thought the USP of a Ferrari was that it's a Ferrari. You wouldn't buy a Ferrari based on perfromance/£.

Take the new Californa for instance.
£155K, 553bhp, 0-62 3.6sec, top speed 196mph

Quick, sure. But compare it to an F type SVR.
£110K, 567bhp, 0-62 3.5sec, top speed 200mph

or a Nissan GT-R
£80K, 565bhp, 0-62 2.9sec, top speed 191mph.

So you can have a baby Ferrari for £155k in the most basic specification or a quicker, top spec Jag, the new Ducati and a Ford focus for the same money.


The California is hardly a good example... It's Ferrari's equivalent of a Scrambler! Razz
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Alex A
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 14 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: New V4 Panigale Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:
Although these photos are of the "speciale" edition, which is £35k (226bhp)


I believe Ducati intend to retain a V-twin sportsbike in their line up indefinitely. There's no intention to replace the 959 with a 'mini' V4, and the Panigale 1299 R Final Edition will remain in production until 2020 (Euro5).

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Ducati-1299-Panigale-R-Final-Edition-54.jpg

At £35k it'll cost about the same as the 'Speciale' V4. That would make for an interesting back to back comparison. Not quite as powerful but 5kg lighter. And despite the exhausts, better looking IMO.

I have a standard 1299 model. It's a brilliant bike. As fast as any production bike IME. Relatively comfortable for a superbike. Beautiful to look at, and the V-twin does it for me. Having said that, I'm not convinced about the 'monocoque' chassis design of the Panigale, at least on the road. It's very sensitive to imperfections in road surface, bumps and dips, and results in a lively and sometimes unpredictable ride. I haven't messed around with the suspension settings - that may help. As it is, though, I prefer the handling characteristics of the trellis frame equipped Streetfighter S. It's probably not quite as nimble, but it feels absolutely composed and confidence inspiring. Sounds better than the 1299 too.

I'll give the V4 a go next year if the opportunity arises. I doubt I'd be tempted to buy one.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silly fucking argument you girls with egos are having IMHO!

But though I agree with Paddy that the 999 is my most amazing Ducati want and object of lust from Bologna,
All I want to know about this new V4 is will it be as fast and capable as Aprilias version of the V4 superbike?

Oh and if we are talking the Italian 2wheel equivalent to Ferrari, then that for me historically would be a brand starting with B. But Ferrari are obviously not a parts bin special company like the above brand.

Anyway who cares, if you like a bike and can afford it, just buy that sucker. Life is way too short not to!

Currently I want a brand new Italian bike at some point, the 125cc Version is about £6800 though and a 250 just over £7k I think. I so fucking would though!
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asta1
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PostPosted: 00:22 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

The California is hardly a good example... It's Ferrari's equivalent of a Scrambler! Razz


Fair point, but even the new 488 at £200k isn't as quick to 62 as the Nissan. It does give you about 80bhp more and 2-4mph higher top speed though, granted.
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G
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:

It was the insinuation that you're paying double for no good reason, which is not true. We're talking about brand new bikes here, not buying a 2nd hand 1999 turbo busa that could take the piss out of it for 1/3 of the cost.

In a straight line - but would have issues on the corners relatively.

While Paddy's bikes should be pretty good in the corners too.

Sure; if you're stuck on the having newer numbers on your number plate, then it's a bit different - but for a lot of the rest of that, that's not a massive factor.

Oh and; the GTR may be faster in a straight line and of course does still work very well in the corners; but it still weighs around half a ton more than that 488 I believe.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just 'why buy new' taken to a different level.

I had an 1800 Goldwing which was £15000 when most other new bikes were below 10. I bought it because that was what I wanted and I could afford it.

I can afford the new Ducati but I don't want it, thats just personal choice. (and I probably would have trouble getting my feet onto the pegs nowadays Laughing )

I don't get this worry about dropping it lark. You buy insurance for that. What about a brand new car? There aren't many decent large cars that will give you much change from £20000, but you wouldn't worry about driving them incase you had a prang.

My Trophy cost £13000 in 2012. Silly money for a toy. My canal boat cost me north of £20000 and I've spent a small fortune on it since. It might sink Shocked .

Lifes too short to be sensible all the time.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horses for courses really ... it will sell to those that love ducati .. whilst the rest of us would rather spend the cash on a number of cheaper machines .. i've had a 796 and the maintanance scudule was too much .. also i had to re-tool as the mechanical design is different to jap stuff .. never again.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
This is just 'why buy new' taken to a different level.

I had an 1800 Goldwing which was £15000 when most other new bikes were below 10. I bought it because that was what I wanted and I could afford it.

I can afford the new Ducati but I don't want it, thats just personal choice. (and I probably would have trouble getting my feet onto the pegs nowadays Laughing )

I don't get this worry about dropping it lark. You buy insurance for that. What about a brand new car? There aren't many decent large cars that will give you much change from £20000, but you wouldn't worry about driving them incase you had a prang.


I would - only had a new car once and I hated doing the shopping in it cos some old dear might park too close and ding it when she opened her door. Etc. etc. Yeah you can claim on insurance for shit, but then your premiums go through the roof and the companies claw it back over the next 5-10 years. Or most of it at any rate.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

I don't get this worry about dropping it lark. You buy insurance for that. What about a brand new car? There aren't many decent large cars that will give you much change from £20000, but you wouldn't worry about driving them incase you had a prang.


You can't drop a car, and unless you engage in a 120mph country road tree killer, your car is pretty much always going to be a car. A car doesn't get cubed by a mishap with a van. A bike can. A bike can be written off by being knocked over by the rider or a pedestrian. This can't happen with a car.

20,000 pounds for a new Vauxhall Astra is a massive waste. I'd rather have a 2nd hand 911.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something draws me to the Panigales in general. Just think they are one of the best looking bikes ever made (in my opinion) and having owned a 1299 and now an RSV4 RF, I think it's the perfect combination.

I wouldn't be buying it for cash either, that would be silly. It's not going to be much different than the RSV on monthly payments, around £250.

Some people prefer to buy a bike out right and own it for years, I like swapping my bikes every 18 - 24 months to keep it interesting. My pal has had his gixxer for 10 years now and he says he will just keep it. Now that's fine and everything but if you're in to bikes, surely you would want to try out different ones? Maybe just me?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What this argument is about is how wealthy (or not Sad ) you are. Anyone who was truly wealthy wouldn't be bothered about dropping a £15k bike, or pranging a £150k car. So I can't really see the point in those who can't afford insurance hikes, servicing, or buying such toys in the first place, getting involved in this argument.

To have a proper discussion about this new Panigale, price wouldn't be a consideration, but purely how good it looks, and/or how well it performs.
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