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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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Jayy |
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Jayy Mr. Ponzi
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:32 - 15 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: |
When you can get a bike with similar or arguably better performance for less money, why wouldn't you? |
If money isn't a problem, because you like this bike, for whatever reason.
Tbh, I'm a little puzzled by your approach to this. You say what I quoted above, but then earlier you said:
MarJay wrote: | I've ridden 150bhp bikes... Too much for the road. As I said before, exhilarating, not fun. |
So maybe you already know why you wouldn't necessarily buy the higher performing but cheaper bike. Image, aesthetics or maybe you just love the brand.
I've never thought to look at different options for bikes I buy for sheer fun factor. Either I was knocked out by the model under consideration, or I wasn't. If I was, I bought it. When I bought the Denco-tuned H2 Kawasaki, I didn't think, ah, but there are better handling, faster bikes for the money. This was the bike that stole my imagination at the time, so I bought it. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:52 - 15 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: | Because I was referring to the track comparison of the Ducati, in which I was saying it doesn't matter that it's .2 of a second faster around a track because most people don't use it. A lot of people, people who buy litre sportsbikes WILL go on performance, and the Ducati just doesn't have it. At least not to justify the extra money. |
You seem to switch between road and track arguments to suit yourself
I think as long as you get a certain level of performance and handling, track bikes aside, it doesn't really matter that much which litre sports bike you go for. The Ducati has plenty, it has a tradition behind it, it is uniquely different to Jap IL4s, and they look pretty good.
Track performance? Well, if you were truly serious about that, you'd probably tweak anything you bought anyway, wouldn't you?
At the end of the day, the only justifications you need are, I want it, and, I can afford it, so to that extent, I guess we are in agreement ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 20:24 - 15 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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I think Marjay is having the ego wobble here tbh!
If your mad into Kawasaki's and cut your arm, and your blood runs green, or you won't let anything else from another manufacturer into your garage, then of course your going to buy the ZX10R.
But telling OP to buy one as it's better VFM than the Ducati he likes is just plain daft IMO!
If you like Italian bikes then why saddle yourself with a Japanese bike and be miserable? Also let's not talk about performance or ability, as the magazine testers on road and track struggle like hell to split 200bhp bikes on lap times or ability by more than a few 10ths of a second at best. When your at that level they are all so good it doesn't matter. And more to the point the ordinary bloke in the street wouldn't even be able to differentiate between them at all!
The buy an old 911 instead of an Astra remark, well just lol!
I don't think it's very important at all to analyse spec sheets, or bikes to get the most bhp for the £, or the best chassis, or the most adjustable best specced suspension for X budget. At this level it's so immaterial. There ain't nothing in them on the road, and mere fractions on a track.
Same goes with cars. I'd say looks, preference, brand loyalty or image go much further than the steering feedback, ultimate dry grip, corner speed or G-force recorded in testing. Add in all the other bollocks like which one has the highest bhp number, the least weight, or the shortest braking distances and fade resistance during repeated 70mph stops, and you see how unimportant it all is to the buyer.
Generally you've got to like the looks, brand, or design of something and to be able to afford it than its ultimate performance specifications for the money to buy it.
Do people buy a toaster that is 2seconds quicker at a round of toast tested in a lab, if it looks shit or doesn't fit in with the decor of your kitchen etc. |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 00:22 - 16 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Ok here's my arguments distilled down:
I do not think Ducati is so much better than it's competitors that it justifies the extra money. There are bikes I'd rather buy and putting myself in the shoes of someone who likes 200bhp+ bikes, there are still bikes I'd rather buy in that case too. I think the same of MV and plenty of other bikes.
I personally don't like litre bikes, but some people do. If you want a bike to be fast, there are plenty of other options than Ducati, and some of which at a lower price point. As I said, I am still able to put myself in the position of someone who DOES like those bikes. These two points aren't mutually exclusive...
I probably wouldn't buy a brand new ZX10R anyway. For a number of reasons. £10,000+ on any bike is probably a step too far. Especially when bikes are essentially more disposable and fragile than cars. I am considering buying a car soon, and it won't be an Astra and it won't be new! The only bike recently I've even thought about dropping money on is the z900RS, which I think does 'pose' better than a Panigale. It would have to ride well too but if you want a bike to pose, why does it have to have 200bhp? Plus, it wasn't a REAL consideration, else I'd be at a dealer right now.
I don't see massive contradictions in any of this. I don't see any reason why my personal opinions should be invalid, or why other people shouldn't consider some of the factors I consider with this. People are at liberty to buy whatever bike they want of course, but they should admit the reasons they do so. And the reason you buy a Ducati is pretty much because it's a Ducati and not because it's measurably better than other bikes. ____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 01:17 - 16 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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OK, well yeah I do get that you can't put a more expensive or exclusive bike on a pedestal and say it's better than a more mass produced popular alternative.
But my point was, and I do know people that are one make Die hards. Be it a Suzuki, Kawasaki, BMW or MV etc. Those people won't ever be satisfied by the argument that you can buy a different bike that's not as expensive as their brand, and would be just as good to ride if not better.
I know I'm really fucking up my points here, but it's like Harley buyers being told to go out and ride a Yamaha XV1900 to try it, as it's faster, or better to ride or more exciting whilst being ££££'s cheaper etc.
Oh and Im not a fan of 200bhp road bikes, or modern litre superbikes either. They are way too much bike for me.
If I wanted something scary or that would thrill and excite me, then a 60-70bhp 120kg bike like a tuned 250 race replica (2stroke obviously for that weight level) would be as crazy a motorbike as I'd want to experience on the road or track these days.
I think there is a world of difference between a bike that's capable and silly fast, and a bike that is usable but feels silly fast, and it goes back to the point of numbers on a spec sheet not really mattering for much.
Oh and I like the new 900 Kawasaki too, but despite how it looks and the cool style it has, I did think that at 109bhp it's only the same as a Hornet 900. I thought that for way less than its new price you could buy and trick out a Hornet to a silly degree, with Ohlins shock, SP1 front end and brakes, and a trick titanium exhaust system and Fireblade carbs and cams etc. It won't look like a Z900 but I always liked the Hornet and think it's a bike that screams to be modified. |
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JAMSXR |
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JAMSXR World Chat Champion
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Posted: 08:09 - 16 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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I actually think the new V4 is great value for 220bhp exotic Italian motorcycle. Part of me likes it because it will be stupidly fast, and the other part, because it’s red shiny and Italian.
I’ll never be able to afford a Ferrari, but the V4, which to me is an even more attractive proposition, is obtainable. I won’t buy one as it’s too uncomfortable on the road and too pricey (for me) as a track bike, but still, I think it’s nice bit of kit. Having heard some sound clips, it’s almost worth the 20k+ just to hear the sound of that V4 ____________________ Honda SFX50 > Aprilia SR125 > Aprilia RS125 > Honda RFV400 > K4 GSXR600 > KTM Duke > C1H 636 > K3 GSXR1000 > Aprilia RSV-R > Triumph Street Triple R > Ducati 899 Panigale > Aprilia Tuono 1100 > Triumph Daytona 675R > KTM SuperDuke 1290 2.0 |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham Super Spammer
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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Jayy |
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Jayy Mr. Ponzi
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Wave2k |
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Wave2k G's Stalker
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jjdugen |
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jjdugen World Chat Champion
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1198 |
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1198 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 17:55 - 01 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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May I suggest -
If you want, like and can afford a Ducati, buy one.
If you'd prefer a Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, whatever, if can afford one and want one, buy one of those instead?
Who's to say who's right and who's wrong?
I've a 66 plate Panigale S, it's done 5,500 miles including around Europe (Normandy, Nurburgring), with panniers. If others chose to take them on a track, fair play. You pay your money, you do your thing... |
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Howling Terror |
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Howling Terror Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:27 - 01 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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It's pretty amazing, and I'm using the word amazing correctly here, that the standard bike which produces 214hp requires oil changes at 7,500 and 15,000 miles for valve checks. That bloody horrid CG125 I had required more attention.
The downside is styling. I wanted something that would've made Terblanche or Tamburini(RIP)i cry with envy.
...and my longstanding gripe with these hyper sportsbikes....No adjustable footpegs for my £23,000. ____________________ Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project |
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Jayy |
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Jayy Mr. Ponzi
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JAMSXR |
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JAMSXR World Chat Champion
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GSTEEL32 |
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GSTEEL32 Traffic Copper
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JAMSXR |
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JAMSXR World Chat Champion
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Jayy |
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Jayy Mr. Ponzi
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
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Howling Terror |
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Howling Terror Super Spammer
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Jayy |
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Jayy Mr. Ponzi
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Posted: 17:44 - 07 Feb 2018 Post subject: |
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No point having a "superbike" and it sounding like a tractor |
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G |
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G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 77 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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