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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
M.C wrote:

Because landlords can charge whatever they want, or is the person I know paying (the same landlord) a lot less than the tenant below them being subsidised as well?


You live in a state sponsored house don’t you?

Yes/no?


You take full advantage of any tax breaks by selectively declaring your business finances don't you?

Yes/no?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:

You live in a state sponsored house don’t you?

Yes/no?

Who built Donk towers?

Itchy wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:

I have private health cover. Where do I claim my refund on what goes to the NHS?



Without the NHS many doctors would not be able to moonlight for BUPA. So the general tax you pay is the minimum. The BUPA cover is the premium above the minimum.

And going private often means just jumping the queue at the same NHS hospital.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, from my experience paying for a private consultation shortened the eventual operating time by over 6 months. Though that was quite a few years ago Laughing
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Falco
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Taxation is theft. Benefits are paid for by theft.

Sure, just like paying the mob for 'protection'. No point arguing about it, it's just the way things are done.


There are a plethora of countries with little-to-no income tax (on the individual). You'll note however that there is something of a correlation between the level of taxation (overall and individual) and overall shittiness of a country. Interestingly this trend only holds up to ~40% where it stops being too Mad Max-y, for example Norway has a lower top tax rate than the UK at 47%.

Honourable exceptions go to tax-centric countries like the Bahamas, which are populated by very rich accountants and service personnel (and little else). These get around the inherent problems with no taxation AND no economy by simply bringing large amounts of money from more productive societies in via tax schemes.

Taxes are (in theory) "what we pay for a civilized society". But if taxes are literal extortion...why stay and tolerate this state sanctioned violence? Anyone earning enough to be on the sharp end of the tax brackets will have high enough skill levels to move to less inimical climate.

Unrelated: Child Benefit is an example of bureaucracy in action. With these sort of benefits it works out cheaper to make them universal (and use the other forms of taxation to balance them out) than means-testing applicants.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

Who built Donk towers?.


The irony is of course mortgage payers are subsidised by the ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) and therefore are state subsidised individuals too.

If interest rates were at the norm of 8% well we'd see a big difference.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falco wrote:
Child Benefit is an example of bureaucracy in action. With these sort of benefits it works out cheaper to make them universal (and use the other forms of taxation to balance them out) than means-testing applicants.


Thats not why it's universal. There used to be tax allowance for children (similar to the married persons allowance.)

It was removed and replaced by child benefit, a universal allowance for children was replaced by a universal benefit for children, largely so that it didn't have to go to the wage earner, who tended to piss it all against the wall.

Thats why the the elder members of society tend to call it 'Family allowance' and not 'Child Benefit'
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JonB
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
M.C wrote:

Who built Donk towers?.


The irony is of course mortgage payers are subsidised by the ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) and therefore are state subsidised individuals too.

If interest rates were at the norm of 8% well we'd see a big difference.
How does that work? The BoE are now independent of government and the only metric they balance against is inflation.

8% is not the norm, the average interest rate since 1694 is 4.78%
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JonB
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Falco wrote:
Child Benefit is an example of bureaucracy in action. With these sort of benefits it works out cheaper to make them universal (and use the other forms of taxation to balance them out) than means-testing applicants.


Thats not why it's universal. There used to be tax allowance for children (similar to the married persons allowance.)

It was removed and replaced by child benefit, a universal allowance for children was replaced by a universal benefit for children, largely so that it didn't have to go to the wage earner, who tended to piss it all against the wall.

Thats why the the elder members of society tend to call it 'Family allowance' and not 'Child Benefit'

That and Child Benefit is means tested now. Earn over £50k (individual, not household) and you have to start paying it back.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonB wrote:
since 1694 is 4.78%


Laughing
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 12:23 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonB wrote:
How does that work? The BoE are now independent of government and the only metric they balance against is inflation.

8% is not the norm, the average interest rate since 1694 is 4.78%



The BoE isn't independent. It's more of a legal identity ruse.

For instance if you open a Ltd company say JonB ltd. Even though you control it even though you own all the shares in it. JonB Ltd is not JonB they are considered different legal entities.

Therefore what JonB Ltd does say welch on a debt is not reflective of JonB. It's all very similar. You could close JonB Ltd and open JonC Ltd they are completely different entities from a legal stand point.

Take for instance QE. It is both printing money and not printing money at the same time.

Traditional money printing. Ming/Yugoslavia/Zimbabwe does not create an asset in the central bank (double entry). QE does. In theory this asset can later be sold a QE unwind. So in effect it's not printing money it's an asset swap.

The ruse is that QE will never be unwound therefore the asset is worthless. They'll roll it over to a zero coupon amount sometime in the future. So it's both printing money and not.


8%? It's to cover all the under reported inflation.

https://invitationdigital-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/q_70/freddo_index_main

Government keeps on saying it's 1-4% but consumer goods says no. House prices say no as well.
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Falco
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PostPosted: 13:10 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Thats not why it's universal. There used to be tax allowance for children (similar to the married persons allowance.)

It was removed and replaced by child benefit, a universal allowance for children was replaced by a universal benefit for children, largely so that it didn't have to go to the wage earner, who tended to piss it all against the wall.

Thats why the the elder members of society tend to call it 'Family allowance' and not 'Child Benefit'


I did not know that, it's quite interesting Thumbs Up However as JonB points out, it's no longer universal, and even when it was I don't believe that decision was based on the costs of administration.


JonB wrote:
That and Child Benefit is means tested now. Earn over £50k (individual, not household) and you have to start paying it back.


Yup, which was sort of my point (as much as that vague musing had a point). Means testing is generally considered a "fairer" method of distributing benefits, but it is generally more expensive to do it that way. It's the age old clash of ideals vs pragmatism, are we prepared to let that money go to everyone if it ends up being both cheaper and more effective, even though it means some is spent inappropriately or would we rather drive up the cost, reduce the effectiveness but more narrowly focus the resources? Both methods have their merits and I am not sure one is objectively better than the other, but the favouring of one over the other does afford some insight into the view of the public (as interpreted by the government).
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Government keeps on saying it's 1-4% but consumer goods says no. House prices say no as well.

Not every value in a range is equal to the mean, you say? Some are higher and some are lower? Nah, sounds like some cray-cray Eastron maths.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Not every value in a range is equal to the mean, you say? Some are higher and some are lower? Nah, sounds like some cray-cray Eastron maths.



Not really if there are correct weightings and apportionment then the inflation rate may well reflect something closer to what people actually experience.

It isn't. Improvements in things you don't even buy suppress inflation. Also there is the reset effect. So your £1 loaf of bread goes to 1.20. A 20% increase right? No.

The bread is taken out at £1 and put back in at £1.20 and if by magic the 20% price increase is no longer considered. The chocolate ration has increased this month comrade!
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:


Traditional money printing. Ming/Yugoslavia/Zimbabwe does not create an asset in the central bank (double entry). QE does. In theory this asset can later be sold a QE unwind. So in effect it's not printing money it's an asset swap.



Nearly right, but it's a liability, not an asset. All this 'balancing the books' crap we get from the tories is about clearing that liability.

They seem to determined to get rid of it before the next election.

(Look on a bank note and you'll find 'I promise to pay on demand....', it's an IOU so a payable.)
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:

Nearly right, but it's a liability, not an asset. All this 'balancing the books' crap we get from the tories is about clearing that liability.

They seem to determined to get rid of it before the next election.

(Look on a bank note and you'll find 'I promise to pay on demand....', it's an IOU so a payable.)


On the BoE side it's an asset.

The government issued a Bond.

The BoE prints money (from nothing) to buy it.

So it appears as an asset on the BoE side and a liability on the government side.


I've been out for a while though so I defer to your more recent knowings. I mean discussing DR and CR on a Saturday night Laughing not what I expected when I was 20 Very Happy
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/another-year-another-tax-leak-and-the-usual-festival-of-hypocrisy/
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:

Nearly right, but it's a liability, not an asset. All this 'balancing the books' crap we get from the tories is about clearing that liability.

They seem to determined to get rid of it before the next election.

(Look on a bank note and you'll find 'I promise to pay on demand....', it's an IOU so a payable.)


On the BoE side it's an asset.

The government issued a Bond.

The BoE prints money (from nothing) to buy it.

So it appears as an asset on the BoE side and a liability on the government side.


I've been out for a while though so I defer to your more recent knowings. I mean discussing DR and CR on a Saturday night Laughing not what I expected when I was 20 Very Happy


The bond money is cash (SPL) (debit side), the balance sheet (or SOFP) is a credit, a liability
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
M.C wrote:

Who built Donk towers?


My house? No idea.

I'll ask again.....

mpd72 wrote:

You live in a state sponsored house don’t you?

Yes/no?

I've already answered your question, answer mine, or is there a reason you don't want to?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 02:02 - 12 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Err, no you haven’t and yes I have.

I have no idea what little jibe you have lined up, but if you want to know who built my house, it was in the 70’s, so i’m going to have a guess at “Trevor”.

Previous page genius.

If you know where I'm going with this then you already know you're being a hypocrite.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 12 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:


If you know where I'm going with this then you already know you're being a hypocrite.


It'd be funny if somebody used right to buy to buy their council house wouldn't it?
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 12 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:


If you know where I'm going with this then you already know you're being a hypocrite.


Their generation had it the roughestest, don't complain Laughing
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