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Stator failure?

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BTTD
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PostPosted: 23:47 - 07 Nov 2017    Post subject: Stator failure? Reply with quote

I suspect so.
On the ride home from work I could smell an acrid hot electric smell. Nothing appeared to be on fire, however the voltmeter was then reading 11.8v, and by the time I got home (after filtering through 7 miles of motorway traffic jam in pissing rain) it was reading 11.3v.
Not a relaxed ride, but at least I got back.
I checked the voltmeter with my multimeter, hoping the bike was actually fine. Nope. The £5 chinese volmeter is still reading with annoyingly good accuracy. Bastard.
Checked all accessible connections to the reg rec, nothing melted or burnt. Swapped the reg rec over for a spare and multimeter results are the same. Reg rec does not appear to be the problem.

So stator then.
It's a 2002 Speed Triple, 955i. Having done a quick google it looks like I can test the output with the reg rec disconnected (20v ish from each) and if that looks bad, then just pop the cover off and other than a bit of oil dropping out I should be able to have a look for charred remains.

Anybody have any tips or advice? Am I missing anything blindingly obvious?
Any pitfalls when replacing a stator? Not done one before.
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mudcow007
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PostPosted: 01:06 - 08 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

reg/ rec or stator me thinks

with the smell i would go with reg/rec
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 01:18 - 08 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Logically the Reg/Rec is your next point of call. Been there, done it, what a fucking job.... Good luck m8. Thumbs Up
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 09:02 - 08 Nov 2017    Post subject: Re: Stator failure? Reply with quote

jnw010 wrote:
Swapped the reg rec over for a spare and multimeter results are the same. Reg rec does not appear to be the problem.

mudcow007 wrote:
i would go with reg/rec

Chris45 wrote:
Logically the Reg/Rec is your next point of call


Confused I did swap out the reg rec for a good one and it didn't fix it.
Anyway, I've done some more googling and it seems simple enough to fix. The main issue appears to be crushing your fingers when the magnets pull the cover back on with significant force.
I'll have a look into testing the stator output tonight, and then have a look inside for charred carnage.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 09:10 - 08 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=295684 Thumbs Up
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 08 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using your multimeter check for continuity on the alternator wires normally 3 for a three phase alternator and two for a single phase, then check to see if the alternator windings have gone down to earth.
here you go proper type info,

https://www.triumphrat.net/t3-sport-touring-forum/134079-dissecting-the-nd-25-amp-alternator.html
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mudcow007
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PostPosted: 10:07 - 08 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh sorry I had "kraken eyes" (half pissed)

have you tested the output yet from the stator?

Mine when it popped was showing continuity with earth on all output wires.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 08 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last time mine popped (It's a Honda, there's always a next time) it took the R/R out with it.
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Chris45
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 08 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ogically the Reg/Rec is your next point of call.


Sorry m8, that was meant to read Stator. You're right, the strong magnetic force of the stator is the biggest challenge so might be a good idea to have a pal handy - NOT the wife!!!!

As mentioned check the continuity on the stator as this will deffo confirm whether it's packed in. Good luck.

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BTTD
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 08 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did some more testing this evening.
I started with a cold test of the stator with a multimeter at the stator plug.
Followed the wires from the stator.
https://s1.postimg.org/93equw438r/WP_20171108_18_11_32_Pro.jpg
Up to the first connector tucked just behind the frame.
https://s1.postimg.org/9s80ewqz3v/WP_20171108_18_11_45_Pro.jpg

Took a bit of fishing out, and then, low to nil resistance when testing pins 1:2 1:3 2:3, suggesting everything's okay. Not what I was expecting.

Fired the bike up and each combo was putting out 20v ish at tickover, and 37v ish at 2500rpm.
All consistent with a working stator.
I plugged the stator back in and checked the voltage being delivered up by the reg rec. Same 20v ish 37v ish. About 12v at the battery.

Turned the bike off and checked the reg rec with a multimeter. Nothing standing out as being off. Confused

So... I started looking at the connectors again.
Reg rec leads look okay, lots of grease and no corrosion.
https://s1.postimg.org/5ufmy8g66j/WP_20171108_18_09_47_Pro.jpg
So I have a look at the loom ones that plug into those and feel something crumble.
https://s1.postimg.org/3a9sllf4zf/WP_20171108_18_09_25_Pro.jpghttps://s1.postimg.org/206vf9wiiz/WP_20171108_8_08_18_Pro.jpg

Well I guess that needs fixing. Further googling suggests that overheating connectors and light guage wiring can cause some issues. I'm not convinced that is the cause of my problem or that I haven't spazzed my multimeter testing, but I'll start by fixing what I can clearly see is broken, and then test again.

I did consider taking the stator cover off and visually checking the windings, but with the multimeter not giving me any indication of an issue I was reluctant to pull it apart. I was also getting hungry.

The wiring will wait until the weekend when I'll pull the tank etc off and put some heavier guage stuff in from the stator to the r/r, and also after the r/r in the charging circuit.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
when I'll pull the tank etc off and put some heavier guage stuff in from the stator to the r/r, and also after the r/r in the charging circuit.

I went for the bullet connector approach when upgrading the stator and reg//rec wiring.
5 years or so and all good after the previous reg/rec failures. The 3 wires from the stator were thin and brittle to the touch. Peeled the insulation back and the copper wasn't shiny.

Unusual that your reg/rec still works, most don't.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 08:37 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimp on bullet connectors? Thinking I have some of those.

I replaced the original shunt r/r unit with a mosfet type a few years ago. The original r/r was still working fine, but I'd read about them being a known failure point so decided to upgrade it. Hence I have a spare r/r unit that I swapped over as a first test. I too am surprised that neither the r/r or stator isn't showing clear signs of being borked, but first I'll clean up the crispy wiring.
I just don't think it'll be that simple a fix.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you have your multimeter handy,check that you have a good earth return from the negative post of the battery to various points on the engine and chassis.

I have found that some corrosion can cause all sorts of problems where the resistance,even a few ohms,will only get worse.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 08:42 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having spent all of yesterday thinking about it I went back to the bike last night and checked my meter readings again...... and also checked from the stator to ground which should be open circuit / infinite resistance.
It's showing a short.... new stator ordered from M&P, £83. Gasket sheet and some punches for the bolt holes ordered from Amazon £6.
I'll upgrade the wiring over the weekend and get the old stator out and everything ready to drop the new one in.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done , It's all up hill from now
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funnily enough mine has just shat its electrics again and I'm thinking it's the stator....again. I just need to get round to testing it with the meter but with the bairn running amok I'm not being given any opportunity to sort it Rolling Eyes

Last time mine went last year it was the same, full continuity to ground. And to be honest it's really the first test you should do as nine time out of ten that's what it is, a fried winding will ground out. I soldered the stator wires last time so I have to arse ache around desoldering and shit just to be able to bell it out.

At the moment I'm deliberating over stators, Honda can fucking do one asking 350 quid for an OEM stator. The last one was an Electrex so I think this time I'll give RM a shot.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

jnw010 wrote:
Did some more testing this evening.
I started with a cold test of the stator with a multimeter at the stator plug.
Followed the wires from the stator.
https://s1.postimg.org/93equw438r/WP_20171108_18_11_32_Pro.jpg
Up to the first connector tucked just behind the frame.
https://s1.postimg.org/9s80ewqz3v/WP_20171108_18_11_45_Pro.jpg

Took a bit of fishing out, and then, low to nil resistance when testing pins 1:2 1:3 2:3, suggesting everything's okay. Not what I was expecting.

Fired the bike up and each combo was putting out 20v ish at tickover, and 37v ish at 2500rpm.
All consistent with a working stator.
I plugged the stator back in and checked the voltage being delivered up by the reg rec. Same 20v ish 37v ish. About 12v at the battery.

Turned the bike off and checked the reg rec with a multimeter. Nothing standing out as being off. Confused

So... I started looking at the connectors again.
Reg rec leads look okay, lots of grease and no corrosion.
https://s1.postimg.org/5ufmy8g66j/WP_20171108_18_09_47_Pro.jpg
So I have a look at the loom ones that plug into those and feel something crumble.
https://s1.postimg.org/3a9sllf4zf/WP_20171108_18_09_25_Pro.jpghttps://s1.postimg.org/206vf9wiiz/WP_20171108_8_08_18_Pro.jpg

Well I guess that needs fixing. Further googling suggests that overheating connectors and light guage wiring can cause some issues. I'm not convinced that is the cause of my problem or that I haven't spazzed my multimeter testing, but I'll start by fixing what I can clearly see is broken, and then test again.

I did consider taking the stator cover off and visually checking the windings, but with the multimeter not giving me any indication of an issue I was reluctant to pull it apart. I was also getting hungry.

The wiring will wait until the weekend when I'll pull the tank etc off and put some heavier guage stuff in from the stator to the r/r, and also after the r/r in the charging circuit.


I've seen several of those melted stator loom plugs replaced with nothing more than a good choccy block connector and they all semed to work quite well. Seal the water out and they should be fine.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:

choccy block connector


Aye, absolutely no reason that won't work so long as it's the appropriate rating. I've been known to grease them up and go belts and braces with a big heatshrink around them.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're gonna be messing about with the stator and RR wiring anyway, may I suggest 'hard wiring' the RR output direct to the battery.

I did it several years ago, totally overkilling it with both + and - consisting of doubled up 30-amp cable. Soldered up with plenty of heatshrink and crimped-then-soldered for the terminal rings.

As a result I'll have a rock steady 14.4V at the battery idling, whereas a measurement on the ignition-switched-live rail is about 13.2V (thanks to cruddy 20 year old wiring).
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing I was thinking choc block connector, but then thought it might look a bit too bodgy.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another vote for bullet connectors, with the caveat that you use a proper ratcheting crimp (Under a tenner online), and not a squasher that everyone calls a crimp.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ratchet-Crimper-Cable-Wire-Terminals-Electrical-Adjustable-Plier-Crimping-Tool/112402484442?epid=505483496&hash=item1a2bb5ccda:g:BuYAAOSwIX1Z3d0Y
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 14:46 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="ThatDippyTwat"]Another vote for bullet connectors, with the caveat that you use a proper ratcheting crimp (Under a tenner online), and not a squasher that everyone calls a crimp.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ratchet-Crimper-Cable-Wire-Terminals-Electrical-Adjustable-Plier-Crimping-Tool/112402484442?epid=505483496&hash=item1a2bb5ccda:g:BuYAAOSwIX1Z3d0Y[/quote

Spot on!]
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who uses insulated bullets should be raped and murdered in prison. Oem style bullets and proper tool is the only way to do it.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 11 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
Anyone who uses insulated bullets should be raped and murdered in prison. Oem style bullets and proper tool is the only way to do it.


TBH even OEM style bullets is kinda crappy considering these days you can buy proper modern stylee waterproof connectors for not a great deal.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/4/2/6/0/1/7/webimg/550879394_o.jpg
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 12 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a proper crimping tool, so went with some bullet connectors. I'm not mad keen on them, and I have used Superseal connectors before, but the larger sizes seem to be a bit more difficult to track down and I couldn't be arsed.
Making new stator lead up.
https://s19.postimg.org/5g7o0e7f7/WP_20171112_14_33_07_Pro.jpg

Threaded though bike, close to where new stator will go in.
https://s19.postimg.org/huug0pjhv/WP_20171112_15_26_20_Pro.jpg

The r/r end wrapped in yellow tape.
https://s19.postimg.org/5g7o0ef4z/WP_20171112_15_26_33_Pro.jpg

Charging cables out of r/r to battery.
https://s19.postimg.org/fqa2zmpkz/WP_20171112_16_13_52_Pro.jpg

Fused of course.
https://s19.postimg.org/4dxhhvbr7/WP_20171112_16_14_03_Pro.jpg

And this is how I organise bolts when I take them out.
https://s19.postimg.org/c6o5a2unn/WP_20171108_18_11_06_Pro.jpg
I write the spanner / allen key size and location on the card. Everytime I take the seat cowl off I grab that bit of card and it saves me time getting the right tools out. I now have a collection of cards for different servicing jobs.

I didn't get around to taking the stator out. It was starting to get dark and I was starting to feel tired. New stator should turn up in the next couple of days....
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