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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:45 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
Some bikers do not understand clip on bars, arse-up riding.

Perhaps we understand that it's a position intended for one thing, going flat out on a race track, and has no place in stop-start traffic.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:

Some bikers do not understand clip on bars, arse-up riding. Grip the tank with your knees, hold the bars lightly with your arms slightly bent. You can filter slowly for ages on a race rep in comfort if you sit on it properly. Agreed upright bikes are more suited to lower speeds, but if you love the sports bike concept like many do, it's worth learning to master slow as well as fast riding.


oh i`ve had this machine 11 years and the earlier one it replaced for 7years .. think i`ve got the hang of it by now .. however what fcukes me is the residue effects of a trapped nerve even years down the line this haunts me .. i`ll just pick and choose where , when and how far i ride it ... Dance!

Rogerborg wrote:
Perhaps we understand that it's a position intended for one thing, going flat out on a race track, and has no place in stop-start traffic.


I/it was fine for me and many others before .. but not so now ..

but it beggs the question
" what race track position bikes have you had to make your opinion round ?"

G wrote:
Copycat73 wrote:

race reps are just a pain in the upper back under 60mph ..

Heavy helmet?


Cervical radiculopathy, residual damage unfortunatly Thumbs Up
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pegaso 650....oh no wait, that's fucked. Rolling Eyes
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G
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:

Cervical radiculopathy, residual damage unfortunatly Thumbs Up

If you haven't got a reasonably light helmet; I'd definitely recommend one for sports bikes, then.

I got some mild pain not far off the areas described in the above when moving to a longer commute on a sports bike while still using a Caberg flip helmet that was fine on a trail bike.
A Shoei normal full-face was a good bit lighter and cured it.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
" what race track position bikes have you had to make your opinion round ?"

A CBR600F has a pointlessly uncomfortable riding position compared to bikes designed for humans.

InB4 yehbut morebad is lessbad: if I insert a porcupine's snout up your rectum, how do you know that you won't like it if I shove the shove the whole thing in?

Huh? You answer me that. How could you possibly know?
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Copycat73 wrote:
" what race track position bikes have you had to make your opinion round ?"

A CBR600F has a pointlessly uncomfortable riding position compared to bikes designed for humans.

InB4 yehbut morebad is lessbad: if I insert a porcupine's snout up your rectum, how do you know that you won't like it if I shove the shove the whole thing in?

Huh? You answer me that. How could you possibly know?


the difference is knowledge gained through first hand experience and second hand taught or learnt from a third party me media ....

and having owned a CBR600f the riding position is not that radical ie the bars attach over the top yoke not beneath it....

but why let the facts get in the way of a good prejudice ..
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 13:10 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:

I got some mild pain not far off the areas described in the above when moving to a longer commute on a sports bike while still using a Caberg flip helmet that was fine on a trail bike.
A Shoei normal full-face was a good bit lighter and cured it.

i did have a Caberg flip .. it was uncomfortable on me kneck on the r1 so
i have a BOX pinlock atm.. weighs in @1500g.. probably half way
through its life now ... i`ll look into what you have said at re-newal time.. ... Thumbs Up
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree with those who say just keep one well maintained bike, if you're not in a financially strong position. Jap IL4s have always proved to be very reliable when treated well in my experience, and it's one reason I've stuck fairly faithfully with them, apart from a very few exceptions.

This argument about sports or upright is a bit silly imo. It will depend on what an individual likes, what he's comfortable on. But that's obvious to everyone here, isn't it? One man's pleasure and all that. The OP is likely to dismiss more than half of any recommendations made here for that reason. Just go through the list of bikes you like and can afford, and do some research on any common faults. Obviously discard those that are known for reliability problems. Then buy as good condition an example of what you decide on as you can afford. Look after it, and it should look after you.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add my 2p...

The CBR600F is widely known to be a bike that is ergonomically good for all types of body from the very short, to the very tall and all sizes in between. I've ridden one and it was supremely comfortable.

Just because it has clip ons, doesn't mean it's uncomfortable. I've also heard anecdotal evidence that people with bad backs get on better with a VFR750 than any other type of bike, because it takes pressure off of the back. That bike, does indeed have clip ons. It's not a 'race rep' per se, but it's better for people with bad backs than an upright trailie (anecdotally).
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:21 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counterpoint: utter rot I miss Bendy[*].

It's ridiculously uncomfortable compared to any upright bike.

You made excuses for it because racebike, and then you got used to it, and now you're defending that bad decision in order to validate your suffering.

The tumbling sales of leany-forwards bikes compared to uprights illustrates that fewer and fewer people are falling for the Emperor's New Riding Position.

If they were really "ergonomically good" and "supremely comfortable" then why are bike manufacturers going to uprights? Is it because they hate money and want to lose sales?

[*] Not really.
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Counterpoint: utter rot I miss Bendy[*].

It's ridiculously uncomfortable compared to any upright bike.


Another ex CBR owner here. When I had it, I would have said it was very comfortable - I even did ~170 miles in one go without getting off of it once. Therefore it must be comfortable, right?

Now having a big upright wide bar bike I truly know what comfortable is. I could get along with the CBR no bother, so it was comfortable, but it just isn't as comfortable as an upright position.

I had a little go on one about ~18 months ago and it was the oddest feeling I've had since that Asian girl tickled my bumhair with her nose whilst she was tonging my gooch.
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G
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the Scottish were supposed to have a backbone?

I suppose you do need some Ab-muscle too, rather than munchie-box-belly Razz.

So, what did find uncomfortable about the CBR600F again?

Cigarettes are pretty universally known to be a bad thing - they still sell pretty well. Not that I'm suggesting naked bikes give you cancer, but....
Razz
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:

I suppose you do need some Ab-muscle too, rather than munchie-box-belly Razz.



But if you're fat and leaned forward on a sports bike, can't you just rest all that belly on the tank and take the weight from your arms? Thinking
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
So, what did find uncomfortable about the CBR600F again?

The pointlessly high (for road use) pegs and the pointlessly low (for road use) bars, resulting in being both scrunched up and uncomfortably extended compared to bikes designed by someone who has seen an actual human.

It's tolerable, is the best I can say of it. And yes there are worse bikes, but less bad is not good.

Getting back on the Nazi Tractor was such a stark contrast and a huge, visceral relief.

If someone came to you and asked why they should actively choose a pegs-up-bars-down position for stop-start road use, what positive arguments would you make in its favour?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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arry
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

It's ridiculously uncomfortable compared to any upright bike.


MCN's bike of the day 'contender for anyone's garage' based on 'added practicalities'

Such timing goods.
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G
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where was this discomfort manifested - arms, shoulders, feet, back?


Rogerborg wrote:

If someone came to you and asked why they should actively choose a pegs-up-bars-down position for stop-start road use, what positive arguments would you make in its favour?

You're inline with acceleration and have weight over the front to help keep it down. Best position for bike control generally, presuming you are in a decent position rather than trying to sit as upright as possible.
Decent ground clearance for roundabout fun.

I've found sports bikes to be better on my lower back than upright bikes (I've often swapped between a sports bike and supermoto/trail bikes/etc so bikes that typically are much more softly suspended than the sports bikes) - I would guess because impact from bumps isn't pushed directly up the spine, your body acting as a bit of extra 'suspension'.
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haroman666
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
I even did ~170 miles in one go without getting off of it once. Therefore it must be comfortable, right?


Not trying to be "mine's bigger than yours" but more embellishing a pro-CBR outlook: I rode ~400 miles in a day on mine without my knees or hips or wrists blowing to smithereens.
I don't deny that an upright bike would have been more comfortable, but calling a CBR "uncomfortable" is a bit strong.

Buuuuut then it's subjective and everybody's body is different. To-may-to, to-mah-to and all that.

EDIT: Also i'm 6ft (+ a bit) so I am more folded up on the bike than someone shorter.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:30 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
MCN's bike of the day

MCN's bike of the day

MCN's bike of the day



G wrote:
Where was this discomfort manifested - arms, shoulders, feet, back?

Yes.

G wrote:
[Bettar bcuz racebike]

Dem roundabout lap times do.

It would be dull if we all agreed with my correct opinion.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
I would guess because impact from bumps isn't pushed directly up the spine, your body acting as a bit of extra 'suspension'.


If impact isn't pushed directly up the spine, which part of the body is acting as extra suspension? The legs? So they're in an already relatively cramped position, and now they're expected to take impact from bumps too?
Or maybe the arms? Which are already taking more weight due to the leaning forwards position? (unless you're fat Smile ).
Or are you gripping the tank with your knees? So your legs have to be tensed all the time?

Colour me Confused

No wait...you need a fat arse...?
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haroman666
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
If impact isn't pushed directly up the spine, which part of the body is acting as extra suspension? The legs? So they're in an already relatively cramped position, and now they're expected to take impact from bumps too?
Or maybe the arms? Which are already taking more weight due to the leaning forwards position? (unless you're fat Smile ).
Or are you gripping the tank with your knees? So your legs have to be tensed all the time?

Colour me Confused

No wait...you need a fat arse...?


I think it's more to do with the direction of the bump force through the spine.

Sat upright, a bump force goes straight up through the spine, putting all vertebrae and discs in compression.

Leant forwards it puts the bump force through the spine at more of angle, where the bending motion of the spine can dissipate the energy in a humanly organic movement.

Plus, as you say, being leant forwards distributes more weight onto the hands/arms wrists, so X newtons of bump force is divided between 3 contact points (2 arms and a bum) more equally.
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arry
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

haroman666 wrote:

I don't deny that an upright bike would have been more comfortable, but calling a CBR "uncomfortable" is a bit strong.


That's entirely in accordance with both my views, and my statement Smile
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G
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As haroman666 suggests ...
Instead of the impact going directly up your back, not only is it off on a vector*, but your body can 'hinge' around your abs, working kinda like a swingarm absorbs bumps.

(*If you were laying completely flat on the bike, you would get no impact up your spine as the force would be at 90 degrees to the joints - of course we're not talking all the way lent over unless you're really going for laptimes!)

That's all just conjecture to explain my anecdotal evidence, of course.

Rogerborg wrote:

Yes.

Strengthen back.
Use back to to reduce forces on other areas.

So perhaps it depends if said human's typical exercise consists of adjusting the height of an office chair Razz.

OI should note that from the way I've always had less issues riding minimotos than others - I probably am naturally more flexible than some.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Strengthen back.

Grease the porcupine.


G wrote:
So perhaps it depends if said human's typical exercise consists of adjusting the height of an office chair Razz.

Not true.

Since I put my name on it, I've never had to do that.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
but your body can 'hinge' around your abs, working kinda like a swingarm absorbs bumps.


G, you're so full of shit, it's probably that that's taking all those impacts Razz
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Injuries aside I'll add that having good core strength, strong legs and general flexibility has made riding the MV acceptable. Stick on a packed tankbag and it's acceptable for riding all day. On long boring roads I rest my chin on it, through town I rest my abdomen on it (I refuse to admit I'm getting a belly).

Also of the belief that sitting bolt upright comes with its own drawbacks..again no scientific info to back up but did get more hip cramps on the 250 commuter and I've freaked out a few pillions when I've had to stand up because of hip cramps on the ST2. Guessing my arse in their face constitutes as a freak-out situation.


...as you were.
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