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Trackers, bike jacking, insurance questions

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adkiucm
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Joined: 09 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: 01:26 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Trackers, bike jacking, insurance questions Reply with quote

Hello to all guys and girls (if any), my first post here, but I've been lurking as a guest for a while.

I'm a freshie with 2 bikes at the moment (MT125 & XSR900Abarth).

After reading a lot about bike theft and bike jacking you made me a bit worried, as I live/store/commute in Tower Hamlets having worst bike theft levels in the country.

I am not that concerned about parking at home or work as I have got bikes kept in a secured location with access gate, security, chained up to a proper rack and with disc lock + alarm.
However, after reading about bike jacking and MT09 types getting targeted I started considering using a tracker.

I have seen companies like biketrac, datatool advertising fancy trackers with the annual subscription which seems quite legit, but pricey. I have seen some cheap mobile phone trackers for PAYG sims etc on ebay. Any advice?
Which ones would drop my insurance premium (quite high as I've got small experience), I would assume the ones with Thatcham approval only, etc.

How do insurers approach bike jacking these days? Is it recoverable from fully comp insurance? At the end of the day, bike jacking involves having a key in the ignition so it could breach insurance contract. Any experiences with this? I see tracker as the only method to protect against bike jacking without carrying weapons on you... Smile
Would you have to prove bike jacking with helmet cam record?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only one I'd bother with is BikeTrac, based on actual owner reports of getting their bikes back before they become their insurance company's bikes.

A police incident number should see you right for any jacking claim. Be aware that they're currently engaged in Operation Numberwang to get the figures down by any means necessary, so they may try to fob you off. Insist on a crime number. I'd feel free to recall that firearms were brandished, and worse, that they called you a "$YOUR_ETHNICITY bastard". I am completely serious about that, Paddy on here was run over by a road rager cager and the Met no-crimed it.

Best of luck, you're going to need it.
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owl
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Managed to get a £75 refund on my insurance once the BikeTrac was fitted, the yearly subs are £99. That works out to less than 27p per day, normally spend 10x that amount on daily coffees. The fitting however is a bit more pricey, think it's about £299, but that includes the unit and fitting and the unit is yours to keep and can be moved from bike to bike, also if you look around you can usually find better deals.

Fortunately not had to use them yet, but on the occasional false positive they're always straight on the phone polite, helpful and courteous.

Worth a read if you haven't already:

Got Bikejacked - Stamford Hill - Recovered
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I commuted in that there London, then Id probably go with BikeTrac.

As it is, I just went with one of the £20 ebay GPS trackers you have seen. Does the job and its no hassle (plus because its a standalone unit I can transfer it to whatever bike im using at the time)

I charge it once a week and then it just sits under the seat doing its thing.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does it do?

I mean, compared to a BikeTrac.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
What does it do?

I mean, compared to a BikeTrac.


Its KISS.

It just spits out a trackable GPS signal using a 2G sim card. Ive got an app that comes with it and you just open the app and it tells you where the bike is and has been.

So if they ride it somewhere and then remove the tracker - you can still see where it went beforehand.

No bells or whistles like a security force following it or a 24 hour available call centre or anything else cool that biketrak does, but if you want to know where your bike is, its ronseal.
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owl
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've also got the added joy of dealing with the thugs yourself (if you're that way inclined) as it's my understanding the police won't act on "civilian" tracker information. That or call in a porky, yeah they've got mad guns and knives at this location innit?
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

vice wrote:
you've also got the added joy of dealing with the thugs yourself (if you're that way inclined) as it's my understanding the police won't act on "civilian" tracker information.


It depends on how you raise it to them imo.

If you call from your living room and say "Ive tracked them to x location using my own app" then yeah - they will probably tell you they dont have the resources.

If you call from the corner of their street and tell them you are there and they have knives. You'll get a much better response from them Smile

Or as you say, you dont need to involve them at all Twisted Evil
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SantiV
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long time lurker also, was going to ask a similar question!
Still only got a 125, but got my DAS soon and was looking at getting a bigger bike with a tracker fitted.. As above, BikeTrac seems pretty decent so may consider this option living in London :/
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owl
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PostPosted: 13:10 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkeye1250FA wrote:

If you call from the corner of their street and tell them you are there and they have knives. You'll get a much better response from them Smile


would still like to see how this plays out in the real world, logic would dictate a response, however reality may differ, I imagine something along the lines of "go home sir", maybe adding a "they're shouting allah akbar and have knives!" would help
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SantiV
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkeye1250FA wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
What does it do?

I mean, compared to a BikeTrac.


Its KISS.

It just spits out a trackable GPS signal using a 2G sim card. Ive got an app that comes with it and you just open the app and it tells you where the bike is and has been.

So if they ride it somewhere and then remove the tracker - you can still see where it went beforehand.

No bells or whistles like a security force following it or a 24 hour available call centre or anything else cool that biketrak does, but if you want to know where your bike is, its ronseal.


Which ebay tracker did you purchase please?
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 13:26 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was this model (Not this seller though)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A9-Mini-GPS-Tracker-Locator-GSM-GPRS-SOS-Alarm-Tracking-For-Kids-Pet-Car-Vehicle/122064409347?hash=item1c6b9b1303:g:01cAAOSwsm1ZvS-4

And it was £23 when I bought it! Shocked

You need to buy a 2G sim card (also available on ebay) and top it up.

I topped up £5 7 months ago and its still got £2.50 ish left on it.
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owl
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other advantage of BikeTrac is that it uses multiple technologies, they can track using RFID which apparently can be tracked through concrete and metal structures.

I remember watching a short video about recoveries and they mentioned something about how they can obtain instant warrants based on the rfid tracking but not on the gps as the gps location is not as accurate. For example in a row of garages, they wouldn't be able to tell which one the bike is in on gps alone, however with the use rfid they can.

Still at the end of the day, something is better than nothing. Get what you can afford or is best suited to you.
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SantiV
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PostPosted: 13:44 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkeye1250FA wrote:
It was this model (Not this seller though)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A9-Mini-GPS-Tracker-Locator-GSM-GPRS-SOS-Alarm-Tracking-For-Kids-Pet-Car-Vehicle/122064409347?hash=item1c6b9b1303:g:01cAAOSwsm1ZvS-4

And it was £23 when I bought it! Shocked

You need to buy a 2G sim card (also available on ebay) and top it up.

I topped up £5 7 months ago and its still got £2.50 ish left on it.

Thanks!
So once a week charge is all it needs? Does it alert you when battery is almost flat?
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 13:44 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

vice wrote:
The other advantage of BikeTrac is that it uses multiple technologies, they can track using RFID which apparently can be tracked through concrete and metal structures.

I remember watching a short video about recoveries and they mentioned something about how they can obtain instant warrants based on the rfid tracking but not on the gps as the gps location is not as accurate. For example in a row of garages, they wouldn't be able to tell which one the bike is in on gps alone, however with the use rfid they can.

Still at the end of the day, something is better than nothing. Get what you can afford or is best suited to you.


Agree. This doesnt have rfid. It uses GPS and then if it doesnt have GPs available it uses triangulation based on the cell towers in range. (wildly inaccurate! but would at least put you in the right area)
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adkiucm
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PostPosted: 21:54 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

From all options, I considered BikeTrac as the most useful due to RF option, but in my neighborhood, they want £400 for box + installation + 99 for the annual subscription. £500 is a bit steep start. I also travel via Stamford Hill sometimes (around 56 times last week...), so reading the linked story is a bit scary.

Thank you for all the answers
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arry
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 09 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

A police incident number should see you right for any jacking claim.


Yes, that would be fine.

There are some oddly worded policies out there regarding Jacking I have to say; most state an exclusion under the circumstances of having the keys left in the ignition. It's not subject to it being unattended or having left the keys under duress. Technically speaking, if they acid you and you get off the bike crying acid rain out of your eyeballs, the policy exclusion would be valid if you didn't pull the keys out and take them to the kerb with you.

Of course that's not the intention, but it's not the best of drafting to say the least.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

adkiucm wrote:
they want £400 for box + installation + 99 for the annual subscription.


You can order the unit yourself for £299. The fee and installation charges probably won't change, however.
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adkiucm
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PostPosted: 01:28 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
adkiucm wrote:
they want £400 for box + installation + 99 for the annual subscription.


You can order the unit yourself for £299. The fee and installation charges probably won't change, however.



Sorry, it was meant to be £400 for package + installation and then additional £99. A single unit is £299 when I checked. Did not know you can just purchase it without installation though.
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owl
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PostPosted: 01:35 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shop around some more, just checked, had mine installed + unit for £250, it was on special
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NJD
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm tempted myself, again.

What, however, occurs if u get mangled in crash or a thief burns the bike: total loss or product comes with repair / replace policy?

I'd rather loose a bike than a bike plus £300-400.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 10 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
I'm tempted myself, again.

What, however, occurs if u get mangled in crash or a thief burns the bike: total loss or product comes with repair / replace policy?

I'd rather loose a bike than a bike plus £300-400.


You'd be daft not to tell your insurer about it - seeing as it would probably result in a lower premium...

So you would then claim for it on insurance the same as any accessory that was on the bike i'd have thought?
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