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VFR charging weirdness

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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: VFR charging weirdness Reply with quote

So, here we go a-fucking-gain with the ubiquitous VFR 800 charging system woes....

Year ago she shat a stator, went full to ground and took down the stock R/R. Replaced both, fitted a 'fet R/R and a new battery at the same time and all was well in the world. Voltage sat at a lovely 14.2V and didn't dip under load. Mint.

Skip to last week and I'm pulling off the bypass and notice the voltage indicator led is giving me a warning. Had the grip heaters on so though, hmm yeah that would do it but doesn't usually make it dip. Turned them off and she goes green again. Got into traffic, fan kicks in...voltage goes in the red again. Arse.

Go back out to it after work, fire it up and the voltage warning light takes an age to go green. Now here's a really weird bit to throw into the mix. The VFR has a 'wax idle' startup system, just a thermostatic plunger that pulls on the starter valves below a set ambient temp to kick her up to 2k rpm till the coolant temp comes up and then lets go back to normal idle. I usually let it warm up to near letting go point before riding off but think I'd best get moving otherwise I'm in for a call to the AA. Leg over, clutch in, kick into first and woah..revs leap up to 4500 without touching the throttle. Nudge back into neutral and it drops back to 2000 warmup. Into first, leaps back up. So I let it warm through, wax idle lets go and kick into first...revs perfectly normal. Well that's fucking bizarre. (ref; it doesn't normally do that)

Aaaanyway, get her home and get the meter out and start stripping it down. Now, fire it up and the volts slowly build all the way up to 14.2 at about 2k rpm and around 13.6 at idle. Hmm, not too shabby. But as soon as a high load kicks in, main beams, fan or grip heaters....volts fall away all the way down to 12.1. Load goes off, slowly builds back up to 14.2 again.

Belled the stator wire resistances out, no ground continuity and all at 0.6ohm across poles. Confess I didn't do AC output because the bairn was distracting me and I resoldered the stator wires back up (I'd hardwired it after the previous episode the year before)

Soooo, at this point I'm looking at either shagged stator, shagged R/R.....or, something else? I'm wondering if a dodgy ground might be causing the charging voltage under load to wither?

Thoughts?

For info; battery tests out fine done a load test but ordered a new one anyway, only 40 quid for a new Motobatt so yet to see what that does.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the stator results are ok then check plugs and sockets, if you still find nothing it's pointing towards a phase out on the R/R unit, a bit strange , and yes check all the earths
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Friend had a VFR and had hit and miss charging issues which were all earthing related. He found a heavily corroded earth connector block with what he described as woefully* thin wiring.

*He actually used several swear words and it was more ranty.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flog it on as soon as it's fixed again.

I think I spent as much on charging issues on my VFR as I did on tyres, over its lifetime.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 13 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

barrkel wrote:
Flog it on as soon as it's fixed again.



That..is the plan. It's a shame really, such an otherwise utterly dependable machine that is plagued with infamous electrical gremlins.
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 14 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does sound a bit like battery duffness, presume you cleaned and tightened the terminals already.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 14 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Does sound a bit like battery duffness.


Me too. be interesting to see how it goes with the new battery. A standard open cell battery could be on the way out if the bike is seeing a lot of use and a fair bit of draw. You've got a monitor so you're not risking damage to the new battery.

I put a motobatt on my 750 about 3 years ago and I've noticed the resting voltage creeping down and the heated grips having more of an impact over the last couple of months (I have an actual digital voltmeter on my dash). Doesn't come fully back up to where it was even after putting it on the charger.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 15 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Motobatt chucked in, cleaned up the grounds and contacts etc while there. Same story, 14.4V at 2k but drops away to 12.1V under main beams or fan. With the stator appearing for all intents to be okay then the item I can't effectively test is the R/R. I'll maybe throw down for an FH020AA Super Kit and see what happens. If it still does it then it proves the working state and I'll flog it onwards to recoup the outlay. Then dump a new stator in and see what happens.

Annoying thing is I could just flog it as it stands, it is charging and rides perfectly fine I just know something is amiss. But, I'm not a (total) cunt.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 15 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said, probably 1 phase down,
but it is unusual for rec/reg to go low output Question
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Robby
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 18 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite possible that the fan and the lights are using the same earth, probably in a difficult place like under the tank.

Proper way to diagnose it, find and clean all of the earth points.

Quick and dirty way to see if something improves, run a couple of additional earth straps. Battery to frame and battery to engine.
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ferrisio
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Re: VFR charging weirdness Reply with quote

ADSrox0r wrote:
revs leap up to 4500 without touching the throttle. Nudge back into neutral and it drops back to 2000 warmup.

Mine does this, think it actually wants to kill me.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the 1200's known for this as well?
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Are the 1200's known for this as well?


Not that I know of, 7th gen and above have more 'robust' charging systems. Some poor decisions were made by Mother Honda in the 5th and 6th gen.

Gonna chuck another stator in when I get time, see how that goes. More likely to be that than a 'fet R/R.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 09 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update (fucking hate finding threads on the internets where OP doesn't come back and post success/failure)

Gambled on it being the stator even though it checked out; win! Giving solid 14.5 and 13.6 with main beams on which is what I'd expect to see. The stator I pulled out didn't look too bad but smelled a bit toasty and the wires inside were scorched so obviously bad things were afoot and it was only a matter of time before it fully shat itself.

Give her a few weeks to bed in and see how things go then I need to decide whether to keep the VFR and sell the Zed or vice versa. At the moment I'm not in love with the big Zed, it's not a bad bike by any standards but it just doesn't have the same....feel, as the grunty V4. Dunno, time will tell.
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 09 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you found the fault
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 09 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADSrox0r wrote:
Update (fucking hate finding threads on the internets where OP doesn't come back and post success/failure)

Gambled on it being the stator even though it checked out; win! Giving solid 14.5 and 13.6 with main beams on which is what I'd expect to see. The stator I pulled out didn't look too bad but smelled a bit toasty and the wires inside were scorched so obviously bad things were afoot and it was only a matter of time before it fully shat itself.

Give her a few weeks to bed in and see how things go then I need to decide whether to keep the VFR and sell the Zed or vice versa. At the moment I'm not in love with the big Zed, it's not a bad bike by any standards but it just doesn't have the same....feel, as the grunty V4. Dunno, time will tell.


Big mileage? I'd expect a stator to outlive 3 or 4 reg recs, unless megaloading.
I'm guessing, but seems weird as they're Jap, therefore usually reliable.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 09 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

VFR VTEC has a bit of a weakness in the generator casing, the oil spray is slightly blocked by a part of the casing and tends to muller the upper right third of stators. The last one was an Electrex stator which are frankly known for being less than reliable. I've plonked an 'RM Stator' in this time so we'll see. I'd love to put a Honda OEM stator in but they're just astonishingly expensive.
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