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Suzuki AP50 (1977)

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GM1803
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 19 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Suzuki AP50 (1977) Reply with quote

Hi I wonder if someone can help me please, I just finished restoring my AP50 1977. I just having issue with the engine when start up its run's fine rev's and ticks over all ok but when you take it out on the road and put the engine under load it has no power you need to rev it hard through each gear to get any where. once you are you to some speed 30mph it start to drop off will not hold any speed when you open the throttle it has no response. Played with the needle jet settings even replace the carb check and recheck the timing any advice would be helpful.

Regard's
Glenn
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 21 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what you are saying is that under load it bogs down?
Once it is warmed up it is weak/lifeless?

Condenser breaking down possibly?
Coil. ..??.
Points gap to small?.??? To big??.
Airbox/filter blocked.??? Possibly
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: no go Reply with quote

Does it go any better if you stand up off the saddle ??

No, its not a daft question.

Does the exhaust make a "fizzing" noise ?

How is fuel flow ?
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A100man
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean by 'restored'. Paint and chrome or a full engine rebuild too? mpd suggests crankcase seals which is one option could also be worn-out bore/piston, or coked up or a combination of factors. It should pull to at least 45 mph on the flat unless you're really lardy.
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bypass2
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 22 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

is the spak plug new. maybe the carb needs a clean. float height need setting. guessing your brakes are not binding/do the wheels turn freely.
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GM1803
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 23 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it bogs down unload, replace new air filter condensor, points, plug, ignition coil, main coil full rebuild on engine and crank all new gaskets and seals barrel and piston. bypass fuel tank used home made one to rule out any issue decoked exhaust no fizzing sound just sounds so sweet like AP should starts 1st kick every time.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 23 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

FULL engine rebuild? Including all seals and bearings?
Does it need to be run in to loosen everything up?

A seal not sealing properly?

Did you have the carb apart? Did you get the settings back to where they were?
Have you dislodged an unseen bit of crap in the carb?

Pics now or I send someone round to your house Evil or Very Mad Wink
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bypass2
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 23 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

home made fuel tank has it got a good petrol flow. The petrol pipe is not kinked when riding it and restricting the petrol flow that happened to me once.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very easy starting, unexpectedly even idling and poor actual performance sounds like an over-retarded ignition to me. You haven't got advance and retard mixed up?
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: power Reply with quote

Again does it make a difference if you stand up whilst riding, ie off the saddle ??

Again its not a daft question.

Is it possible to fit the disc the wrong way round on these ??

I presume the piston is in the right way.

Does it smoke much/a lot ??

How are the main bearings lubed on this, via the 2t system and/or gearbox oil ??

I presume good fuel flow, how long for 2 litres of fuel to flow to carb ( into bottle ) and how is float height ?

Main jet in its hole ?
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Re: Suzuki AP50 (1977) Reply with quote

GM1803 wrote:
I just finished restoring my AP50 1977. I just having issue with the engine when start up its run's fine rev's and ticks over all ok but when you take it out on the road and put the engine under load it has no power you need to rev it hard through each gear to get any where. once you are you to some speed 30mph it start to drop off will not hold any speed when you open the throttle it has no response....

When, exactly, was your ped first registered?
Prior to September 1977, the power and performance of peds was unrestricted. Post September 1977, legislation forced new peds to be neutered and consequently become gutless wonders.
Is yours, perhaps, a post September version?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 23:26 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Re: power Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:


Is it possible to fit the disc the wrong way round on these ??



It probably helps to explain that you mean the rotary valve between the crank and the carb...
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 24 Nov 2017    Post subject: Re: Suzuki AP50 (1977) Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:
GM1803 wrote:
I just finished restoring my AP50 1977. I just having issue with the engine when start up its run's fine rev's and ticks over all ok but when you take it out on the road and put the engine under load it has no power you need to rev it hard through each gear to get any where. once you are you to some speed 30mph it start to drop off will not hold any speed when you open the throttle it has no response....

When, exactly, was your ped first registered?
Prior to September 1977, the power and performance of peds was unrestricted. Post September 1977, legislation forced new peds to be neutered and consequently become gutless wonders.
Is yours, perhaps, a post September version?


Before 1977 it'll be an unrestricted A50, which had pedals and yes I've seen one, a mate bought one when he turned 16 in 1987.


From 1977 it became the AP50 and had no pedals and was restricted. Another mate had one and got caught by the filth with a 100cc barrel and piston on it.

You can't really confuse the two.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 00:41 - 25 Nov 2017    Post subject: Re: Suzuki AP50 (1977) Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:


Before 1977 it'll be an unrestricted A50....From 1977 it became the AP50....You can't really confuse the two.

Really?
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 25 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it bogs down unload, replace new air filter condensor, points, plug, ignition coil, main coil full rebuild on engine and crank all new gaskets and seals barrel and piston. bypass fuel tank used home made one to rule out any issue decoked exhaust no fizzing sound just sounds so sweet like AP should starts 1st kick every time.

if so, he would know what was meant by the " disc ".......one would hope.......
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GM1803
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 26 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, made no difference standing up on the pegs apart for a few funny looks, check the ignition timing with DTI 2.2mm BTDC clean out and check carb again, the disc valve can only fitted one way with dot mark on the spline drive which times up with the keyway on the crank.
I don't think its running in issue it will not hold any speed in any gear the only thing to do now is investigate further in the engine possible disc valve seals area. She July 1977 unrestricted in canyapple red with my home town Reg number. Thank you all for your suggestion and help it will take my a few weeks before I can take a look at the bike again due to the time of year I will let you all know the outcome. Very Happy
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 27 Nov 2017    Post subject: Re: Suzuki AP50 (1977) Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:


Before 1977 it'll be an unrestricted A50, which had pedals and yes I've seen one, a mate bought one when he turned 16 in 1987.


From 1977 it became the AP50 and had no pedals and was restricted. Another mate had one and got caught by the filth with a 100cc barrel and piston on it.

You can't really confuse the two.



not quite we had a 1977 ap50 that was july with pedals
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Vehicle
SUZUKI AP50
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this copied from dvla site

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and a pic of it just before it sold since then its done less then 1000 miles but is moted every year
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Old Thread Alert!

There is a gap of 3 years, 80 days between these two posts...

Fat bloke
Derestricted Danger



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PostPosted: 14:09 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Possible cause of your problem and some other info Reply with quote

OK Lets start with restriction rules and model names. The law changed on August the 1st 1977 restricting mopeds to 30mph although fuel and electrical systems were not sophisticated enough to be exact and so many post law change bikes could go faster than that. Dealers who had stock of pre law change specification bikes did pre register some of these machines and so some mopeds were purchased "new" after the law change but registered in July 1977. Incidentally the law changed with the new registration letter from 1/8/77 "S" registration. The A50P was available for a short time after the law change and I am guessing here a little was either restricted or only legal to ride from age 17. I have been caught out when I noticed a good low mileage carburettor for my A50P advertised on ebay as correct for my bike and bought it. However on inspection it had the external look of the correct carburettor but had a much smaller ventury than the original, this would have the effect that you are experiencing. I assume that the very last of the line had these carburettors and anyone who had one unrestricted their bikes by swapping to the larger carburettor. 45 years later these restricted newish carbs are turning up in peoples sheds and being advertised on ebay for unsuspecting restorers to use. Lastly I would like to say that there is no such thing as a 1970s AP50, the correct model name is A50P (P for Pedal drive). I don't know where AP50 came from, perhaps it sounds a little like "Happy 50". The name thing isn't helped by at least one print run of the Haynes manual showing AP50 on the front cover (corrected to A50P inside the cover) and Suzuki producing a Scooter in the 1990s called an AP50.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 3 years, 43 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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