|
Author |
Message |
Rob Fzs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rob Fzs World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 Oct 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
AldridgePrior |
This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.
|
AldridgePrior Banned
Joined: 19 Oct 2017 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rob Fzs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rob Fzs World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 Oct 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 21:15 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
Rob Fzs wrote: |
hmm , do the people come first though? isn't it the usual story of those at the top making a fortune facebok etc banned |
You mean in terms of the way China is doing it?
Well there are still super wealthy folk over in communist paradise. The difference is the government is still focused on ensuring national prosperity is actually national. Infrastructure investment everywhere, cheap university education, state-funded projects aimed at boosting the economy where it's needed (I work in one of ten huge software parks planned and funded entirely by the government which, after completion, rapidly filled with small, medium and even global/corporate sized entities. Makes the UK's handful of programmers in Cambridge and London look like very small dry indeed).
Seen a few interesting China-related questions on Quora lately. One asked what it's like to be a member of the CCP. A lot of answers were from younger more internet-savvy folk who said they had a parent in the CCP. They noted that their childhood saw a lot of interesting gifts and bribery sorts of things as their dad (usually the dad) went off on official business to various regions. However they all noted that recently the gifts have completely dried up. The anti-corruption drive has had quite an impact. At the 5-year party conference in October, Xi Jinping specifically said, "Don't expect an easy ride if you want to work for the government." Public sector pay is low (even after a recent 'huge pay-rise') and the premier himself only takes about 10'000 RMB a month which is peanuts compared to a big earner (foreign English teachers earn more!).
This is the kind of superstate, and leadership, I'd be quite fine with.
Facebook banning is a different matter altogether. "Muh internet freedoms" is a bit pathetic when you stand back and look at the bigger picture. Chinese people simply don't care about it. To give an idea of the magnitude of internet censorship in China, how about considering how much of an uproar there was when western ISPs were forced to block major torrent websites. Nobody really cares. Meanwhile, torrents are fast and plentiful in the middle kingdom. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rob Fzs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rob Fzs World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 Oct 2015 Karma :
|
Posted: 21:21 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
Lord Percy wrote: | Rob Fzs wrote: |
hmm , do the people come first though? isn't it the usual story of those at the top making a fortune facebok etc banned |
You mean in terms of the way China is doing it?
Well there are still super wealthy folk over in communist paradise. The difference is the government is still focused on ensuring national prosperity is actually national. Infrastructure investment everywhere, cheap university education, state-funded projects aimed at boosting the economy where it's needed (I work in one of ten huge software parks planned and funded entirely by the government which, after completion, rapidly filled with small, medium and even global/corporate sized entities. Makes the UK's handful of programmers in Cambridge and London look like very small dry indeed).
Seen a few interesting China-related questions on Quora lately. One asked what it's like to be a member of the CCP. A lot of answers were from younger more internet-savvy folk who said they had a parent in the CCP. They noted that their childhood saw a lot of interesting gifts and bribery sorts of things as their dad (usually the dad) went off on official business to various regions. However they all noted that recently the gifts have completely dried up. The anti-corruption drive has had quite an impact. At the 5-year party conference in October, Xi Jinping specifically said, "Don't expect an easy ride if you want to work for the government." Public sector pay is low (even after a recent 'huge pay-rise') and the premier himself only takes about 10'000 RMB a month which is peanuts compared to a big earner (foreign English teachers earn more!).
This is the kind of superstate, and leadership, I'd be quite fine with.
Facebook banning is a different matter altogether. "Muh internet freedoms" is a bit pathetic when you stand back and look at the bigger picture. Chinese people simply don't care about it. To give an idea of the magnitude of internet censorship in China, how about considering how much of an uproar there was when western ISPs were forced to block major torrent websites. Nobody really cares. Meanwhile, torrents are fast and plentiful in the middle kingdom. |
Is all the investment in it's people not more to do with nationalism and their strive to dominate the world ?
I cant see any reason for running zombie factories other than to put industries in the west out of business until the Chinese are the only ones running the shop, whilst the thick free traders over here that were happy to bring in all the cheap crap, start backpedaling when they relise the Chinese have stuffed them ____________________ '00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30> Yamaha RD350 YPVS F2 > Kawasaki ZZR 600 D1 > Yamaha TZR 250 2MA >Suzuki TL1000R > Yamaha TDR250 > Honda 929 blade > Suzuki SV1000 > Honda H100
Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011 |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Jewlio Rides Again LLB World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2015 Karma :
|
Posted: 21:28 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
How does Murica work? Several States within the States? Each with their own governing bodies and tax rules etc? ____________________ Mpd72: I can categorically say i’m Brighter than that, no matter how I come across on here.
HAHAHA HAHAHA Blew Chilly MyCrowSystems |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Itchy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Itchy Super Spammer
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
stinkwheel |
This post is not being displayed .
|
stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
|
Posted: 22:00 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
Lord Percy wrote: |
Wasn't really working that way though. Unlike the US, China and old Soviet Bloc, western Europe doesn't have anything other than skin colour to unite each nation (and that's pushing it a bit too). Not even a common language or culture. |
This is a very valid point to me. I have been to many European countries and I have worked and studied with many European people and the one thing that stands out is their "foreignness". The way they do and even think about things.
It's not only the language barrier. I'd go so far as to say there are enormous social and cultural differences even between the UK and Eire.
The European people I have felt most comfortable with are the Icelandic, the Norwegians, the Dutch and the Portugese but even their mindset and outlook is very different to our own, what goes down here wouldn't go down there and vice versa (well, not the Dutch, they are just chilled in general, but again, probably too permissive for most Brits.). ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
barrkel |
This post is not being displayed .
|
barrkel World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 23:01 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
All I can say is I've been all over Europe, I work with Germans, Austrians, Greeks, Polish and Romanians, my girlfriend for the past ten years is German, and I have far more in common with them all than my American colleagues, never mind my Chinese coworkers. The step change in culture between north Africa and Spain, or between USA and UK, is far bigger than that between European countries.
YMMV. I know where I stand. ____________________ Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
barrkel |
This post is not being displayed .
|
barrkel World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 23:11 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
M.C wrote: | Not that we needed it but confirmation of how the remoaners mind works. The word traitor comes to mind, the rest of what you wrote is a complete fantasy. |
I feel obliged to remind people at this point that I am Irish, and yes, strongly pro-EU. Not just because it is an imperative to avoid domination by Britain the way any Brexit Britain will be dominated by the EU, but because the blindingly obvious lesson of the 20th century was that nationalism is evil. There's nothing special or evil in Germany or Germans that led to the wars; it was nationalism, tribalism, the feeling of kinship in opposition to the Other.
And yes, I voted remain in the referendum, as is my right, just as British can vote in Ireland. But I don't mind having the option to wander off when things go south on this island. ____________________ Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rob Fzs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rob Fzs World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 Oct 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
- |
This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.
|
- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
|
Posted: 23:15 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
barrkel wrote: | M.C wrote: | Not that we needed it but confirmation of how the remoaners mind works. The word traitor comes to mind, the rest of what you wrote is a complete fantasy. |
I feel obliged to remind people at this point that I am Irish, and yes, strongly pro-EU. Not just because it is an imperative to avoid domination by Britain the way any Brexit Britain will be dominated by the EU, but because the blindingly obvious lesson of the 20th century was that nationalism is evil. There's nothing special or evil in Germany or Germans that led to the wars; it was nationalism, tribalism, the feeling of kinship in opposition to the Other.
And yes, I voted remain in the referendum, as is my right, just as British can vote in Ireland. But I don't mind having the option to wander off when things go south on this island. |
Why all the grief still in Northern Ireland if you lot by design are not at all nationalistic? Sounds a tad hypocritical. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
RhynoCZ |
This post is not being displayed .
|
RhynoCZ Super Spammer
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 08:59 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
Rogerborg wrote: | RhynoCZ wrote: | You can't just create the United States of Europe (USE). |
Need moar Stukas. |
Roger, look back at every single project the UK, amongst others, tried before. Playing chess with nations they knew next to nothing about. Force is never the answer. People, or at least the majority, have to want to be a part of something to make it actually work. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
ScaredyCat |
This post is not being displayed .
|
ScaredyCat World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 May 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
RhynoCZ |
This post is not being displayed .
|
RhynoCZ Super Spammer
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 10:01 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
barrkel wrote: | I feel obliged to remind people at this point that I am Irish, and yes, strongly pro-EU. Not just because it is an imperative to avoid domination by Britain the way any Brexit Britain will be dominated by the EU, but because the blindingly obvious lesson of the 20th century was that nationalism is evil. There's nothing special or evil in Germany or Germans that led to the wars; it was nationalism, tribalism, the feeling of kinship in opposition to the Other.
And yes, I voted remain in the referendum, as is my right, just as British can vote in Ireland. But I don't mind having the option to wander off when things go south on this island. |
WWII was a result of a long oppression and sanctions against Germany after the WWI. Poor people, that have nothing are far easier to manipulate. The Nationalism wasn't that important in that.
A history lesson: After the WWI the Allies, pretty much France, United Kingdom and Russia demanded War reparations, as that was their right as the victorious parties. Every defeteated party had to make payments (money, gold, raw materials, goods...). It was their right, nothing wrong there.
A Treaty was born, and the defeated parties were going to pay, but ...
... and here's the fun part: Austria, Hungary and Turkey had to pay nothing (because reasons), Bulgaria only had to pay a fraction of what it was told to. And Germans, well, Germans had to pay it all (sort of).
For instance UK officialy demanded way more, than they then wanted from Germans, to trick civilians in the UK and France into believing Germany was being heavily punished for the war.
The, Germans could not keep up the payment plan, so French decided to occupy their territory (google Dawes Plan). International loans were given to Germany, so they could keep up paying and calm the French. That still was not enough (google Young Plan), tl; dr they had a new payment plan that would last till 1988. But, as you might know, in the early 30's Germans went bankrupt and later on due to this event the rest of the reparations were cancelled.
Now, I'm going to give you the TL; DR version of why the WWII happend:
1) Germany amongts others lost the WWI
2) Germany and only Germany had to pay war reparations
3) French were cxnts
4) UK wanted a complete economic destruction of Germany
5) German gov. had their ideas about what's right and what's not (other defeated nations didn't have to pay a thing)
6) People in Germany got pissed, obviously (they were poor, the economy was in the crapper and French with Brits wouldn't stop poking them)
7) When people have nothing, they keen to Nationalism
8) NSDAP (eng: National Socialist German Workers' Party)
9) Hitler
10) WWII
---------
Germany had the wealth to pay all the reparations, but they also had it's Nationalist party and their own Speaker who could say whatever the masses wanted to hear. Plus, the fact the rest of the defeated nations didn't have to pay a thing also did not help.
Looking back, the WWII is the French's fault. So there is something special and evil, that led Germany to the WWII. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI; MZ 150 ETZ, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Hetzer |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Hetzer Super Spammer
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
stinkwheel |
This post is not being displayed .
|
stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Lord Percy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 11:53 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
|
|
Rob Fzs wrote: |
Is all the investment in it's people not more to do with nationalism and their strive to dominate the world ?
|
Well I can again turn to Quora for stuff I've read recently.
One question that kept popping up was, "What do Africans think of China's business on their continent?" Most answers were very pragmatic, saying they know it's not done out of pure benevolence, but all feel like it's very much a two-way partnership, rather than the old European colonial style. Accepting foreign investment was certainly beneficial for other previously poor nations, e.g. China itself - which leads onto the next point -
Another question asked if China is 'grateful' for the investment it received from the west after the internal economic reforms began. Again, the responses were pragmatic - China has nothing to be grateful for, the investment only happened because western financial and business interests saw something to gain from being there. Another 'two-way partnership' situation. It was also noted that foreign investment was not solely from western nations. The whole world moved to invest in China after the economic reforms. This leads onto a final point -
This will sound very Ithcy-esque but.. western arrogance shines through when the China topic comes up. "China is bound to do bad things because that's what always happens when nations get powerful - we should know! And China should be thankful to us for the investment we the powerful west philanthropically handed to them from the good of our hearts! If they succeed, it is only from standing on the shoulders of us noble giants!"
Quote: |
I cant see any reason for running zombie factories other than to put industries in the west out of business until the Chinese are the only ones running the shop, whilst the thick free traders over here that were happy to bring in all the cheap crap, start backpedaling when they relise the Chinese have stuffed them |
But it isn't about zombie factories. It's far wiser than that. For example I just said I work in one of ten huge software parks established intentionally by the government. The one in Chengdu where I am is the largest and employs some 35'000 people, all degree educated, mostly in software engineering the likes of which is barely taught at British universities (computer science isn't software engineering). It's moved swiftly on from zombie factories. Cheap tat isn't the prime goal now, the goal is to steal skilled work from the west, and it's most certainly going to happen.
So that's another reason why I'd be all for a one-government superstate with proper long term economic management. It works.
And yes you're right about idiot western free trade ideology finally coming to back to bite its proponents in the arse.
M.C wrote: | Google Tiananmen Square for me please |
This is another one of those absurd beating sticks people use. "Tiananmen Square protest info isn't accessible in China, therefore the country must be overall bad."
Meanwhile the current vogue in the west is to self-censor the truth by labelling anything and everything as 'fake news' if it doesn't suit the desired narrative.
Also consider the official secrets acts of most sovereign nations. If something is censored, you just accept it as being censored. Weird how it's only evil commie socialist nations that are roundly condemned for withholding what they deem to be sensitive info. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
kawakid |
This post is not being displayed .
|
kawakid World Chat Champion
Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Rob Fzs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rob Fzs World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 Oct 2015 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Val |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Val World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Nov 2012 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 108 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
|
|
|