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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 11:07 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: National Grid tottering on the edge |
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Larks. The wind isn't blowing, solar is a joke, and we're maxed out on coal, gas, biomass and nukular (Sizewell B and Dungeness nuke plants are offline).
Your are currently reading this thanks to pumped hydro, until that runs dry, then we have a tiny bit of last-ditch gas turbine capacity, then it's the end of civilisation.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
https://i.imgur.com/3PSI1Iu.png?1
Thanks, ecomentals. Very well done. You should be proud. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Fizzoid |
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Fizzoid World Chat Champion
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 12:53 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Let's not forget that we need to import electric from France. There's a bloody large cable which comes ashore at the end of Folkestone Harbour.
Quote: | Since the commissioning of the 2,000 MW DC link in the 1980s, the bulk of power flow through the link has been from France to Britain. However, France imports energy as needed during the winter to meet demand, or when there is low availability of nuclear or hydroelectric power.
As of 2005 imports of electricity from France have historically accounted for about 5% of electricity available in the UK. Imports through the interconnector have generally been around the highest possible level, given the capacity of the link. In 2006, 97.5% of the energy transfers have been made from France to UK, supplying the equivalent of 3 million English homes. The link availability is around 98%, which is among the best rates in the world. The continued size and duration of this flow is open to some doubt, given the growth in demand in continental Europe for clean electricity, and increasing electricity demand within France |
____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
Joined: 03 Dec 2015 Karma :
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:42 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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asta1 wrote: | mpd72 wrote: | Let's not forget that we need to import electric from France. There's a bloody large cable which comes ashore at the end of Folkestone Harbour. |
Not sure why you view that as a bad thing really? It makes sense. France has loads of nuclear capacity, and once your plant is installed, the differential in operating costs for flat out vs turned off are practically 0. So either we use gas here in the UK to generate ourselves or buy cheap french nuclear power.
Of course, as your link suggests, in the winter we sell power to the french instead, 0.30GW at this precise moment, because presumably our excess capacity is cheaper than their sources of non-baseline capacity. |
Or if you cut the spin, 97.5% of the time we need them to top up our grid with their power, not the other way around.
Without this import, I doubt we'd have much if any spare generating capacity. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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Val |
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Val World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Nov 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 14:08 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: Re: National Grid tottering on the edge |
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Rogerborg wrote: | Larks. The wind isn't blowing, solar is a joke, and we're maxed out on coal, gas, biomass and nukular (Sizewell B and Dungeness nuke plants are offline).
Your are currently reading this thanks to pumped hydro, until that runs dry, then we have a tiny bit of last-ditch gas turbine capacity, then it's the end of civilisation.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
https://i.imgur.com/3PSI1Iu.png?1
Thanks, ecomentals. Very well done. You should be proud. |
UK can always import 10 GW from EU you know under the Single market tariff free access...wait ____________________ Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not...
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 18:16 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: Re: National Grid tottering on the edge |
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asta1 wrote: | The only 'benefit' of not using french or dutch electricity is so narrow minded British people can say "Fuck you Europe, we're independent and don't need you." |
What a ridiculous comment.
It could be quite handy as a country, to be self sufficient on certain things, especially energy.
If the French or Dutch suddenly have a shortage, guess who gets cut off first?
Rather than spending billions in foreign aid and EU hand outs to Poland and the rest, we should be building our own power stations, without needing the Chinese to build them with huge bribes.
We're supposed to be in the worlds top 5 or 6 economies, yet we can't afford power stations, A&E, military or schools. Something is very wrong with our economy and I don't think EU citizens being able to claim £10K plus in benefits for working 16 hours a week is helping.
1/3 million net migration? Pull the other one. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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owl |
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owl World Chat Champion
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
Joined: 03 Dec 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 19:01 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: Re: National Grid tottering on the edge |
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mpd72 wrote: |
What a ridiculous comment.
It could be quite handy as a country, to be self sufficient on certain things, especially energy.
If the French or Dutch suddenly have a shortage, guess who gets cut off first? |
You're missing the point. We do have enough capacity to produce all our own power. We just choose, under certain circumstances, to cover our spikes with cheap French power instead of using less economically efficient methods in our own plants.
Put it this way. A cold, calm mid-winter day at around 6pm is likely to be just about peak demand for the grid, hence Rogerborg starting this thread today. But even now, we're still not at max capacity. We have some spare CCGT, some OCGT, some pumped hydro reserves, 2 reactors offline, no solar, what with it being dark and whilst we are buying some dutch power, we're simultaneously exporting almost exactly the same amount of power to the french and the Irish. We have enough generating capacity under almost all circumstances to meet demand (as long as there is either some wind or some sun).
It's just that in some situations it makes more economical sense to buy power from the french grid than to produce it here at a higher cost. As I said earlier, at tise precise moment we're simultaneously importing energy from the netherlands AND exporting it to France and Ireland. This isn't just for fun, we can buy cheap energy from one place and punt it to another at a premium, it's just good business.
Why would you want to increase price per kw/H in the UK, reduce the amount of spare capacity available for the very rare situation we need it, expend large quantities of cash to install more generating capacity here, which, let's face it, the locals won't want anyway and simultaneously miss a chance to rip off the French, just to shout about self-sufficency which we already have? It's just madness. ____________________ CBT Acquired: 09/07/2015
A2 Licence Passed: 12/02/16
Current Bike: Yamaha MT-07 bought 02/07/16 |
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
Joined: 03 Dec 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 19:12 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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That said, the coming weeks should be a good stress test for our grid.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/11/north-sea-forties-pipeline-closure-oil-scotland
This pipeline failure is likely to make gas supplies a bit tight for a few weeks and push up the generating cost at the same time. We might be glad of that French nuclear power to tide us over for a while.
EDIT: Vice got there first. ____________________ CBT Acquired: 09/07/2015
A2 Licence Passed: 12/02/16
Current Bike: Yamaha MT-07 bought 02/07/16 |
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thx1138 |
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thx1138 World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2005 Karma :
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Posted: 19:22 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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lets get everyone in BCF to turn on everything and see if we can get it to go pop. |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 19:33 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: Re: National Grid tottering on the edge |
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asta1 wrote: | We do have enough capacity to produce all our own power. |
Just barely, if nothing else has to be taken out of service and demand doesn't rise. Electrocars, yo.
What it really highlights is my broken drum, that "renewables" means building expensive gas turbines in addition to the solar and windmill greenwashing fad. That's why eco-power will never be cheap, because one way or another we're paying double for capacity that's going unused. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Sun Wukong |
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Sun Wukong World Chat Champion
Joined: 02 Nov 2014 Karma :
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Posted: 22:34 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Tesla to the rescue
Give it time. ____________________ Top cat
"Hard times lead to hard people. Hard people lead to good times. Good times lead to weak people. Weak people lead to hard times." Smegballs
"Oh and STE balloons would be one of the nicer things we would receive at the office, the amount of dog turd in jiffy bags is not funny." Jsmith86 |
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :
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Posted: 22:40 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Elon Musk is a flim flam artist though.
For batteries he claims to break the laws of physics with various batteries. ____________________ Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching. |
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
Joined: 03 Dec 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 22:48 - 12 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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I'll reserve judgment on that I reckon. If its still there and functioning in 5 years with a useful amount of capacity remaining, then I'll be impressed. If it's still there under the same conditions in 10, I'll concede it's a good idea and actually works. Plus it needs to offer at least 2 out of the following 3: cheaper to install, more reliable and/or better capacity than pumped hydro to be viable in most of Europe.
Good PR and pretty interesting though. ____________________ CBT Acquired: 09/07/2015
A2 Licence Passed: 12/02/16
Current Bike: Yamaha MT-07 bought 02/07/16 |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 137 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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