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Fell off my bike on CBT

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Jamieking86
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Joined: 15 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: 08:31 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Fell off my bike on CBT Reply with quote

Hi guys, I'm new here but after a bit of advice i suppose.

So I'm 31 now, my dad's been into bikes all his life, I used to ride pillion 15+ years ago which was great fun, but when i moved out I kinda lost interest. Last couple of years though I've been wanting a bike, when you watch films or programmes and their crusiing along I'm like "i want that so bad" so i booked my CBT for yesterday (14/12/17). I was really nervous but really excited at the same time.

So i got their around 8:45, went through equipment and safety etc, we was hummng and arghing wether to ge through with the riding due to a little ice on the grounds. We did though and just took it steady....ish. First couple of laps i was really wobbly, the bike wanted to go left, right, left, right, i could not get it to go in a straight line. After 3 laps I felt like I was getting more control, probably relaxing more, but on 1 corner i lost balance of the bike, I panicked and squeezed the front brake (bad idea), dropped the bike, went flying and broke the clutch lever, he didn't have a spare so we had to call it a day and I've got to go back next week. I'm having major doubts now about my skills, I obviously wasn't on it long, but i just couldnt get the thing to go in a straight line. I have researched it since and people say to relax, If i'm tense then the bike won't do what it's made to do. I was so gutted, all i wanted to do was get back on and try again, but the bloody clutch lever... now i have to wait till next wednesday (20/12/17). Any helpful tips on how to relax? Lol.
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:06 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: Fell off my bike on CBT Reply with quote

Jamieking86 wrote:
Any helpful tips on how to relax? Lol.


Wait for Tef to arrive here and post; by the time you've read all that you'll be practically comatosed.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:09 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: Fell off my bike on CBT Reply with quote

Jamieking86 wrote:
the bike wanted to go left, right, left, right, i could not get it to go in a straight line.

If you get a motorcycle moving and take your hands off the bars, it will go in a straight line. Unless it's been dropped and bent.

Jamieking86 wrote:
Any helpful tips on how to relax? Lol.

Penetrative intercourse. See if the instructor will assist.

And don't sweat it. I was also wobbly on my CBT. I mean, it just looks like a pushbike with an engine, how hard can it b... jesus wept, it weighs how much? I've got to use both hands and both feet at the same time? Eh?

You'll only get over it by getting over it. There's no magic mantra (inB4 Tef).

However, when you go back then even having done it a little bit you should find it easier. If you can get out on a pushbike in the meantime, it should help. Once you're moving, try taking your hands off the bars, or just resting your palms on them - the bike (push or motor) won't fall over. It'll go in a straight line until you do something to change that.

Stick with it, biking is ace and once you figure it out, you'll wonder what you were worrying about.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 09:12 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've learnt your lesson, don't grab at the front brake Smile If it turns into a real bad habit maybe use two fingers or get a bike with ABS. Can you ride a bicycle? Steering shouldn't really be an issue, although it's harder in a confined area at lower speeds. I was a bit shit on my CBT in the yard, then found it a lot easier out on the road (the other guy was the same).

The odd thing about bikes is if you're nervous they'll react nervously, and it's downhill from there. You have to be confident with your inputs, not cocky confident.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 09:12 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bike wants to go straight, the rotating mass of the wheels actually resists your inputs, and self corrects from small divots in the road.

Sounds like two things are at play.

Firstly, obviously you're going very slowly, which naturally makes the bike less stable. Much below walking pace and even experienced bikers will struggle to balance.

Secondly, and I suspect this is the crux of it, the bike can only maintain a straight course if you let is. There is a skill to be learned in operating the controls while letting the bars move freely.

I've never struggled with holding the bars too tight, but I learned when I was 16 and too cocky to be nervous, but a tip I've heard bandied around is to maintain a loose grip on the bars (no white knuckles!) and to be able to wobble your elbows in and out (like doing a chicken impression but with your arms out front).

Obviously don't ride along constantly wobbling your elbows around. You'd look a bit silly if nothing else. But aim for that level of relaxed-ness.

Also, don't be too hard on yourself, every Biker comes off at some point, better on the training school's bike than your own!
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 11:04 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: Fell off my bike on CBT Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Wait for Tef to arrive here and post; by the time you've read all that you'll be practically comatosed.
Oi. I resemble that comment!
Rogerborg wrote:
Unless it's been dropped and bent.

Hmm.. well its a school bike,and the OP's already admitted to dropping it.... How many do you think have been there before him?
Jamieking86 wrote:
Any helpful tips on how to relax? Lol.

In THIS weather? As I look out the widow and see snow on er-bludi-guzzi? And start to shiver just stood in the nice warm kitchen!!!!!

First tip? Stay warm.
Second tip?.... keep your cool.... there may be an ironic contradiction in these two bits of advice, but still!

I used to do this kind of schit for fun.. teaching CBT and riding in the snow... but I'm a bit strange, as neighbors will testify.....

There's a humorous anecdote of Snowie, my O/H when she was on CBT, getting 'stuck' on the drive in the snow, when she found the 'hole' sunk where the old gate-post used to be in the drive in the snow, when going out to work one morning.

20 minutes after she had walked out the door, I got a 'phone call "Help! I'm stuck, Come get me!"....

I should mention at this point, this wasn't the first time.. I had, previously had a very surreal phone call in a similar vein, in which she was 'lost'.. and a very circular argument with me trying to ask her where she was, so that I might go get her... answered with very astute feminine logic... "If I KNEW THAT, I wouldn't be 'lost'.. would I?" to which there's no answer really..... It wouldn't have been 'so' bad, except she had a GPS on her handlebars!!!!

So, you may imagine, I was filled with some trepidation..... when I asked "So, where are you?" and received the reply "Out-side!" Which narrowed it down a bit, I suppose.... "Yers, outside where?"

"OUTSIDE!" came the reply, with only the emphasis a woman can instill into a single word... or even sylabul, actually!

So I looked out of the window and there she was less than twenty feet away.... so I opened the front door and told her she could turn the 'phone off.

"I'm Stuck!" she said.... the problem seemed to be that the bike didn't really want t go forwards or backwards, and her feet kept slipping whenever she tried to shove it....

It was about quarter to seven in the morning, so I took half a dozen steps, down the garden path in my dressing gown, propped bike up whilst she stepped off, and then pushed it out of the hole, across the pavement and onto the road for her....

"Its pointing the wrong way, NOW!" she said!

Women! They are NEVER satisfied! So, I got on, rode it to the mini-roundabout four doors down, did a U-turn and back up, so it was pointing the way she wanted.... in my dressing gown...

NOW... of course, its ten to seven the morning.... and the neighbors are all starting to come outside, and scrape frost of car windscreens.... to go to work.... ALL of them! I'm sure the street was deserted when I opened the front door! Where did they all come from?

So picture the scene.. I am riding a motorbike, in a dressing gown, doing a perfect U-turn, and as I turn, the wind catches my dressing gown.... I have nothing underneath! A-N-D an audience!

Certain parts of the male anatomy get VERY small, in sub-zero temperatures!!!!

That is my excuse, I am sticking to it WHATEVER the neighbors may say!

ANYWAY.... laugh... or my wit is wasted! And that's tip three.

A little laugh, helps you relax, and you know what they tell folk with stage fright.... imagine the audience all naked.... or in this case, me, great galoot of hairy biker, on little 125 doing a U-turn, in the snow, arse hanging in the breeze!

See-Bee-Tea.... its your first lesson; its not a test; there's nothing dependent on it; its not like a blood test or something, they are't likely to come back and tell you you only have three weeks to live or anything!

Its just a ride round a car-park; you don't have to dodge buses or rush hour traffic, there aren't any SMIDSY's lurking up side turns on the play-ground or anything.. chap is on hand to tell you what to do, and offer help and tips and advice, and pick up the bike for you...

Its not like you have been asked to defuse an un-exploded-bomb, with nothing more than the instruction manual to tell you what to do, if you could only read mandarin!

Don't sweat the small stuff. Its supposed to be 'fun'....

May not be the nicest of weather.... but what the heck, do it in this, doing it in the sun is going to be a walk in the park, isn't it?

Snow and ice isn't the nicest, and wont make it the easiest, but? Its all good. I used to do competition trials, which historically is a 'winter' sport.. we did't have the best surfaces to ride, even in the better weather, but in winter? Bit of snow and ice added to the challenge trying to ride where mountain goats fear to tread!

So many supposedly 'seasoned' riders put their bikes away for winter, and gripe about how 'bad' the roads are and how treacherous when the temperature drops.... but? If the busses are running, you can be riding pretty much. Its so often so exaggerated what you can ad can't ride in.

Key, whatever the weather is to be SMOOTH and not panic and not snatch controls..... when its a bit slippy that's paramount.... so f you suss it in the slush, you will have it cracked in the shine... and f it's any solace, so many snatch the brake and make themselves fall off, even in the sun, the weather probably made little or no odds to your tumble... and its out the way now!

There's no magic pill to help you here.... you JUST have to WANT to do it, and get back on the bike.... and FIND THE FUN... that is all!

Grin don't grimace, and IF it helps.... just imagine your instructor naked doing U-turns...... and SMILE Very Happy
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations, that's your MikeRite of Passage done.

Oh, to expand on c_dug, bear in mind that you're doing the hardest thing possible with a bike: slow speed manoeuvres using the throttle, clutch and brakes in a crowded, artificial environment full of other learners.

It really does only get easier from there.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Jamieking86
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys and Tef for the amusing story. I know I have to relax but when your on the bike for the first time it's quite hard to relax and think of feathering the clutch, using the throttle and the back brake at the same time but i suppose this does come together with practice. I've seen many youbtube clips of epic fail riders on their first road ride, then in another clip their perfect, so practice makes perfect as with everything. Only thing is i couldn't practice anymore due to the clutch lever snapping, which is what i was mainly gutted about. It was a long walk back to my van with my head down. Come wednesday though i will NOT make the same mistake, and at least i had a little go on the bike, even if it was for only 5 mins (if that) so come next week i'll hopefully be a little more used to it and hey......may even be good at it. Time will tell though Smile
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Cbs2
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry about it Jamie too much
I did exactly the same on a 600 bandit on my first big lesson.
Took it round the training pad to get used to it
Hit the front brake without thinking, with the steering at an angle.
Straight over on its side.😔
I was told anything second gear or lower - back brake only.
It's helped a lot especially with slow manoeuvres
And frees your hand up to keep revs up should you need it.
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SuperMike
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is kind of accepted that everybody has dropped a bike at least once isn't it? My DAS course - first day on the roads on a 650cc. Came to a T-junction and wanted to turn right. Slight incline up to the road I was trying to pull onto. I didn't get the clutch right and stalled it just as I had started to camber over to the right. 200kgs of bike past the point of no return - I jumped off and stood on the road as the bike took a lie down. No damage done other than to my pride.

Dropping a bike on a CBT? Nothing to get your knickers in a twist about. On my one there was a bloke who fell off about 6 times in the morning - he understandably wasn't allowed out on the road. Was on a DAS 5 dayer and had a CBR 600RR waiting for him at home. I shudder to think what happened to him...
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Gosties
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry it will give you point of reference for when you return to complete your CBT. It's better to drop the school bike rather than your own one. Grabbing the front brake is a no-no at slow speed but it's a habit that most people I would presume would need ridding of at the beginning of the learning stage.

I dropped my motorcycle this morning on the way to work.

I was making a left turn hit a patch of black ice and down I went.

Slightly damaged scuffed the fairing and had to tighten the left mirror afterwards. No injuries other than hurt pride. Unfortunately it's not the first or probably last time I will drop a motorcycle.
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bladerunner
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually a bit like Tef. enjoy riding small bikes in the snow and spent 12 yrs as a bike instructor! also had my fair share of honda 200 twins but thats another story!

You right relax ....not great when its bloody cold with patches of ice and frost as even without that tires are not gripping well when its cold, however today was the lesson in brake balance and thats been learnt so CONGRATULATIONS your going to ride bikes...your occasionally going to drop them and small bikes are the ones it happens on most even for the more experienced riders so don't sweat it ...it happens and your instructor today should have seen what was going to happen and prevented it!

Next time your on the bike look out for these tell tale signs as your riding
1, stiff shoulders, arms and upper body..like you feel tence
2, going round corners your lifting your knee away from the tank...a classic sign of lack of cornering confidence as your shifting your body weight to keep the bike upright! KEEP THOSE KNEES IN and if needs be keep them in tight or your not actually feeling what the bike is doing
3, keep it smooth you should be able to ride in a straight line at 10mph with no problems...if the bike is still rolling left and right and not staying neutral I'd suspect the head stock bearings are shot or the wheel bearings or even a squared off tyre
4, Keep at it your brain is having to process a shit ton of new info about what each hand and foot is having to do and balance as well as keep a tiny underpowered little engine in a state it wont stall without slipping the clutch and has a 10mph gear range!
5, DON'T stare at the clocks..look at the road ahead, again a classic learner trait. they wont tell you anything your ears cant when it comes to engine revs but staring at the clocks does make you motion sick as your inner ear is telling your brain your moving but your vision says your stationary, this confuses an over loaded brain and base line is it craps out and you lose confidence
6, Smile...even in a helmet sounds crazy but it tricks your brain into thinking your having fun and relaxes you.....At least your instructor will think your enjoying it too Laughing Laughing
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Jamieking86
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys for the heads up and advice. And sorry you dropped your bike guys. Your right though, it is a craap load of info to take in when your first learning.

I think i struggled with my right foot knowing theirs a brake down their. I've been driving for 13 years so my right foot automatically goes for the accelarator (and the brake when coming to slowing down obviously but that's not the point Smile ). I just need more practice that's all, i know that, and hopefully come wednesday the weather is half decent so it doesn't get called off and i get to complete my CBT. I am then planning on getting a YBR 125 to learn on before going for my DAS. I want to pass on a bigger bike so i can get my beloved R3.

I'm feathering the clutch, the throttle and the rear brake 24 hours a day now, constantly thinking about it including in my sleep so I'm hoping i get the hang of it soon. From what I've heard the slow speed is the hardest part, on the road its relatively easy once you get a hang of the controls.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamieking86 wrote:
I am then planning on getting a YBR 125 to learn on before going for my DAS.

That makes less sense than it used to. You won't lose much on the bike, but you're likely to flush much of the insurance cost. The main result will be giving yourself an excuse to put off completing what are a couple of pretty simple tests.

I wouldn't make any decision until you've completed the CBT, then see if you can blag a quick go on a bigger training school bike. That should help to make up your mind. We all say it, nobody believes it, but bigger bike are generally easier to ride.
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bamt
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, in addition to that ^^^^ , when you are out on a fast bit of road on your CBT, have a quick look at your speedo (to see what your actual speed is rather than perceived, you'll likely feel you are going faster than you are), then give it a wide open throttle. Then look at your speedo again. Also try that on any steep-ish hills you go up.

You are an experienced car driver, think carefully about if you'd be happy with that performance once you've been on a bike for a couple of weeks and got past the "Oh my god, I'm going at warp speed, I'm gonna die, even thought speedo only says 25mph" phase that everyone has.
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Jamieking86
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been debating wether to buy the 125 or not. I have read other threads where people are debating the same thing. Thing is, I'm in no major rush to pass my test, I don't need a bike for work as I'm self employed and have a van, I just want to ride as they look so much fun and would make great weekends away.

I don't want to have an R3 (which is what I really want further down the line) as my first bike. Chances are I probably will drop it, I am only a little lad at 5 ft 3 on a good day, I struggled putting the 125 on the main stand on my CBT 🤣 hence why I was thinking of getting a 125 for a few months or so after my CBT, ride around on that, learn as much as I can then go for the DAS once I'm more comfortable riding bikes, once I'm passed, sell the 125 and get the R3. Would you guys recommend going straight for my das after my CBT?
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bamt
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you get DAS done and dusted then

a) you benefit from a lot more actual tuition, rather than the basic familiarisation that CBT gives you, hence you /should/ be safer on the road at that critical point when you are going out there knowing very little.
b) you can then buy and ride anything you like. You might still want a 125 (and that’s fine, some people love them), but at least you'll be doing it knowing what a bigger bike feels like.
c) you won't have loser plates on! Nobody looks cool on a bike with Ls.

You could, for example, decide to go for a 250+ motor in something naked/adventure/old & tatty to avoid dropping a nice shiny bike dressed in expensive plastics, but you'll be doing that from a position of knowledge.
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Jamieking86
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point mate. I'm new to all this biker stuff so I'm open to any suggestions and recommendations.

I think best thing to do is get my CBT done with, see how I go then take it from their. If I'm very comfortable after the CBT I'll have no problem hopefully jumping on a bigger bike. I'm guessing the instructor could guide me also.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperMike wrote:
I think it is kind of accepted that everybody has dropped a bike at least once isn't it?

Some, like No1-son, "Crash-Test" make a career out of it. Other's like ,myself, get so proficient at, it we do it for 'sport'! lol.
Jamieking86 wrote:
due to the clutch lever snapping, which is what i was mainly gutted about

In trials, it was so 'expected', there would be two or three spare lever blades in the staka-box with the petrol can. Some regular competitors even had complete spare lever assemblies clamped to the down-tubes to swap mid-section if needs be!
Doing CBTs, in smilar manner, it is such a common occurance, there would usually be a healthy stock of spare lever blades in the shed or van, and some instructors even kept one in ther pocket!

I'm surprised your instructor then did't have a spare lever, screw-driver and M10 spanner handy for just such contingency... b-u-t? A broken bike does give a natural break-point to call it a day, if things aren't going well.

Jamieking86 wrote:
it's quite hard to relax and think of feathering the clutch, using the throttle and the back brake at the same time


Ahrg-M-hump-a-flippin, NOT slip and effin Drag.. ah-gain!!! On a 125! on CBT!!!!! Oh Kay! As you may have guessed there's a pet hate there.

The Technique, is actually hypocital and NOT 'good-control' as so often suggested.

Anywhere else, an instructor would be slapping your wrists for NOT riding with out the clutch 'out' fully engaged..

For a laugh, ask what they think about the idea that you might pull in the clutch to 'coast' down a hill, or up to a set of traffic lights to save petrol! I doubt they'd be happy about it!

The approved line is that unless you have the clutch out and the bike under drive, you are NOT in 'full' control... but for slow-speed, they some-how turn the logic on its head to suggest its 'good-control'?!?... it's not. REALLY, it isn't.

In competition trials, which is ALL about slow-speed 'control', if you want bike to go that slow, you use lower gearing! (as they do in other 'control' sports such as Moto-Gym Khana or Stunting)

My Comp-Trials bike has a six-speed gear-box... three of them lower than first on a road bike! Riding sections, rarely above walking pace, over and around obstacles quite significantly more 'nadgery' than a few road-cones... like over wrecked cars, or through builder's skips, or around saplings in a wood on the side of a cliff.... you do it all 'clutch-out', and use the low gears to go that slow.

Slip'n'Drag, is a CHEAT. You rev the motor up to crank-revs well above stall-speed, then 'waste' the power through the clutch, and hold the bike back on the back-brake.

Horrible, horrible, technique, jiggling three competing controls, when you should only need use one... the throttle... properly!

Mostyly to defeat the gears, and go slower than the gearing really allows, where you 'dont' have lower gears available.

Technique became endemic with the advent of DAS about two decades ago, when learners started trying to 'learn' on 500's, that wont go that slow, and even then, it was a 'cheat', when on a £250 a day training course, students would get a bit pizzed-off, struggling to do slow-speed maneuvers, and it was offered as a 'short-cut' to get them up to speed and doing without wasting so much of their money paying an instructor to do no more than watch them wobble.

Since then, so many instructors themselves, having learned to ride and got licences via DAS, its ubiquitous, and they often know-no-better themselves, having been taught, as first course THAT is how you do slow speed maneuvers!

Whilst examiners defend it as an 'exercise' they expect to see, like the motorcycling equivalent of patting your head and rubbing your tummy to show 'control dexterity'... and save them having to 'trot' around the Mod1 pan!

On a 125, that inherently has low gearing; probably tops out at about 70mph at the red line in top! In first, you'd be lucky to be traveling even 20mph with the motor screaming its nuts off! 5mph should come up way below 1/4 engine revs, you should NOT have to slip'n'drag to go that slow, you aught be able to ride it 'clean', clutch out from maybe 2-3mph... and NOT have to pat your head and rub your tummy through the cones,on CBT!

It REALLY just isn't necessary; other than to pander to preconceptions of the instructor or examiner, who will insist to the last on it's cruciality, "Oh, well, they'll have to do it on a big bike! May as well learn the habit at the beginning!"... no.. no... sorry, but, you DONT 'need' do it on a big-bike.. except on lesson/test... and it's STILL not a demonstration of 'good control', it is just a demonstration of hand-eye control coordinator like patting head and rubbing tummy.

But then you can argue that a U-Turn isn't 'necessary'....

I have done a u-turn, on a 750, two-up, with luggage, on a 3in1 hill covered with broken tarmac, on a Welsh country lane barely as wide as the bike is long..... for little reason other than I CAN!

A more 'sensible' rider, would have ridden round the block! Or if it was a dead-end, GOT OFF!

Not risked breaking daughter's leg! Made them get off too! Maybe even unload some luggage to lighten the load, if needs be, AND remembering the first lesson of CBT the 'manual handling'.. is supposed to be for MORE than just the wheel it in and out of a pretend garage on Mod 1 test...

Turned the bike around, in the road, shoving it backwards and forwards from besides the saddle, both feet firmly planted on the floor, with the BEST possible balance and leverage over the lump...

...and 'risk' MUCH reduced to merely having to maybe fix a new indicator or bend a foot-peg straight when you get home.... NOT try and get broken leg out from under 250lb of motorcycle, and find way to Bangor General Hospital to get it looked at!

Actually, did I mention No1-Son 'Crash-Test'?... yeah.... should have known; when he was 10, and all exited to see the sea, whilst I tried to get pram and nappy bag out the car, he went running, leapt over thee foot wall... and dissapeared... 30ft! down to the (Rocks!) on the beach!...

I must say that Bangor General.... IF you ever find the ruddy place, is NOT a partcularly great destation for a family day-trip! He never DID learn the 'LOOK before you LEAP' lesson, I think! [sigh]

Anyway, its a matter of skinning cats, and I DO have to say that that oft rushed and under-valued 'manual handling' leson on CBT, really REALY is one that is so under rated and so seldom exploited...

So many, with ingrained 'car-driver' habits; they suit up, clamber onto the bike, wherever it happens to be stood, stick the key in the ignition, start engine, THEN start to think where they want to be and try and get the bike there, from the saddle.

Idea of moving the bike where would be best to ride off from, before clambering in the saddle, let alone turning the engine on, NEVER even crosses thier mind... and results in lots of 'paddling' from the saddle trying to shove bike about.. and lots of mis-foot tumbles and zero speed 'spills' and broken indicators and cracked fairings.

Another lesson worth noting.

When I did my test, umpety decades ago, one of the fist instructions you were given by the examiner was "Please position the motorcycle, ready to pull into traffic and proceed"

Clue was in the question, and it was strategically designed to let a rider, get on, start engine, and then start paddling backwards.. rather than taking a look around from the pavement; man handling the bike to 'best' place ready to pull into traffic, THEN get on, and start engine, and do observations to pull away, and 'fail' before they have even started really!

Man handling is a HUGELY under-rated technique, it really is, so often given so little merit.

In 'real-life' so much of what you might be taught on CBT and lessons is like this.and so much down to YOU the rider, picking what 'may' be the best technique in any situation.

Used to be warning in the preface of "Road-Craft" that motorcycling is NOT a prescriptive practice, there's never a 'right' or 'wrong' way to do anything; just a tool-box of techniques, and the 'art' was in finding the one 'best' suited to the task... not trying to follow the instructions by 'rote'.

It was, even twenty odd years ago, something I dont think even many 'advanced' riders who had to study that book, took much notice of! But still!

For tests, or even CBT as the first step in that; IF the instructor/examiner asked you to put on a pink tuto and recite Beowulf in the original old Eglish, whilst doing a slalom between raw eggs, with a crowd throwing rotten tomatoes at you.... That's what you got to do to get the ticket! As the movie credit warning, "Any resemblence between persons or places, actual or historcal is purely co-incidental".. matters little whether there's much real reason behind it... you want the ticket, that what you got to do!

But as old road-craft Waring, anything and everything you have been taught, and a lot you likely haven't is merely tools in the tool-box, the art remains picking the best one for the job.. which begs first having those tools in the tool-box, and the common cucum to know when best to apply them!

On CBT? on a 125, Slip'n'Drag, irks me grossely, it is so much a pik-tutu... BUT... you now know why it's there; and that you will lkely have to show you can use it to molify your istructor and examiner, if for nothng else.. and can after, apply common sense whether you ever use it or not...

Jamieking86 wrote:
Your right though, it is a craap load of info to take in when your first learning.


It is. And here is the inherent 'problem' with CBT, as a first lesson, so much HAS to be crammed into it, it IS a lot to take in, in just one day. Crikey, it knackered me out just teaching it!

Errant idea, by so many that its the be-all and end all, you NEED know, and that after it you are allowed out on the road, solo, as if you had passed full tests, just ads to the 'cram'.

Idea behind CBT was good. Before that, any idiot merely had to send of form at the post-office to get a provisional licence, and could wobble out on the road without the first clue, completely untrained or supervised.

As a 'check' on the worst numpties doing just that and goings and getting themselves and others hurt, it was a great success, and the accident stats hailed the 'improvement' it brought.

Since the the use of CBT to allow 'perpetual' L-Plating to dodge tests, and the ride of DAS to do it all in a hurry, have bee built on the back of that 'success' to the system we have now.

And I HAVE to say, that when the EU Third-Directive laws were introduced in 2013, we REALLY made a rod for our own back in the UK, retaining unsupervised L-Plating in contradiction of them.

3DL rules said that no-one should be allowed on the road without first passing tests. In some durastictions they 'gave' A1 (125-only) motorcycle entitlement away with passing other categories, like a car test. Or had much dumbed down tests for it, where we still have to do the exact same tests as for an A2 or Ride-What-You-Like 'A' entitlement, just on a bike of that class.

They could have replaced CBT with an A1 'test' or doled out A1 entitlement on car licences, or 'validated' A1 on a full car licence via a CBT 'like' course, IF as presumed, requirements of riding a 125 are not deemed to be as high as a bigger bike. But Machiavellian political-expedience reigned.

Beware princes who would send you to your death in the name of expedence....

Lading, I hope to help wth your other dilemah

Jamieking86 wrote:
I have been debating wether to buy the 125 or not.


Oft offered advice is that a motorbike is the LAST thing you really need worry about when learning to ride. LEARNING TO RIDE is the first!

I say a lot, that time on a tiddler is rarely wasted. As a training tool, lightweight bikes are great for instilling riding 'technique', they don't have an excess of power to make them easy they don't have a surfeit of weight to make them stable, they do not 'flatter' your riding.. learn to be 'smooth' on a tiddler, you will only ever be smoother on a bigger bike.

Does NOT mean you have to do this time on a tiddler on L-Plates.... or more, you need spend a long time, if any, on a 125.

I have held a RWYL 'A' licence, most of your life-time; I still ride a 125 on it....

My 125 is a 9Kw 'UK restricted' example; doesn't even make the full quota of 11Kw power now allowed by L-Plate regs or A1 restrictions. It IS however sill a genuine 70mph motorcycle, as fast as any other bike, or any engine displacement is legally allowed to go in this country.....

And, being 'slower' than say my 250 or my 750 or even my old 1000, is little or no safety net to me gettng hurt... I shouldn't be going any faster any-way, I just cant accelerate into trouble qute so quick!

SMIDSY car drivers, certainly dont look at the badges on the side before they decide NOT to see you and pull out on you, either.

Risks on the road, are much the same whatever displacement engine you have.... A-N-D the two biggest ones are, first YOU, and the the OTHER IDIOTS on the road!!!

You cant do much about other idiots.... you CAN do something about your own idiocy....which at this stage will largely be down to shear ignorance and inexperience...

NOW.. little thought for you.... CBT is your first lesson, the bare minimum of know how to get you started, and mandatory pre-qualification to go on and do further lessons and tests... for whatever category of motorcycle licence you choose.

CBT, is only 'notionally' a one day course. Actual regs suggest that an 'average' student should be able to complete all the mandatory elements of CBT in 'about' 8-10 hours... but warn that each student 'should'progress at their own rate. A minimum two-hours of road riding on the syllabus, would also suggest that doing it much if any faster than an entire day is probably rather optimistic.

DAS... often advertised as three or five day courses.... with a LOT more road time in the scheme, as well as CBT as a pre-requisite. Again, likely very optimistic that a new rider would be able to get up to test standard, from a standing start in that short a time, especially if they have to squeeze the CBT in as a part of the course.

SO... ponder, how muh may you 'learn' in one or two days of CBT training, compared to how much you might learn on perhaps a week of DAS training....

And more, which is more likely to 'better'prepare you for dealing with the idiots on the road, on a bike, whatever the capacity?

Remember... pass tests, NO-ONE says you have to go buy a 600+cc super-ninga-buster within six months or they'll take it off you again....

IF you dont have confidence you could apply the skill or restraint to ride an R300, what a 90mph motorcycle? Straight off the stops, and that a 70mph YBR125 is in some way 'safety net' for your own short-comings... get one!

No-One says you have to ride a bike at all, let alone that it HAS to be a big bike or a lttle one! For all but 17-19 year olds, lumbered with 3DL age restrictions, all other 'restrictions' are pretty much self imposed, as they always have been.

Get a Ride-What-You-Like licence you can RIDE WHAT YOU LIKE!

Doesn't have to be a hyper-bike, as said, I still ride a 125 on my RWYL 'A' catagory licence, when the inkling takes me... I just dont have to ride it on L-Plates, and I can still go as 'fast' as anything else may 'legally', and plenty enough places just as 'illegally'!

And probably do, if truth be told! With so little 'performance' available on demand, I am far more inclined to cane it, and round town, engage in questionable 'filtering', trying to muscle twice the wight of 750 about tends to discourage, especially knowing I can make whatever 'time' I like come one set of traffic lights, or a stretch of duel carriageway, opening the taps up a bit!

So, your call... CBT is but the first step.... pink-tutu performances included.... the full-licence SHOULD be your ultimate objective.

What bike, doesn't really matter much, here and now. Fact that CBT allows you to go solo on the roads on a 125, is an option, and a 125 that lets you 'practice' to your harts content, devoid of paying some-one to watch you wobble, fulfilling legal requirements of DAS to do it on a bigger bike, MAY be a option worth exploiting.... briefly.... But getting the licence, should still be the objective, A-N-D if you feel you need or would benefit from more time on a tiddler, no-one says you HAVE to do it on L's, and you may do it on a full licence, WITH all the extra taring and know-how as some precaution against the biggest danger to you on the road, right now... YOU!

Unlikely, that after so many hours trundling about with an instructor whispering wisdom in your ear-piece as you go, and a full licence in your pocket at the end of it, you will WANT to.. and after a week, probably on a 650 twin, and licence that says you 'may' ride, a full on 600, or 1000 or anything else that took your fancy, whether even a 300cc commuter single in a sporty frock, with barely more than 125 type top speed, remains all that appealing remains even more speculative than whether you can satisfy an examiner on Mod-1 to get the licence in the first place.

But, all remains a long way up the line.. many a slip twxt cup and lip as they say.

First thing you need is a CBT cert, next thing you need is a valid motorcycle theory pass cert.. along the way, you probably need sort a crash hat ad some basic riding apparel, and if you have any sense some damn good locks, before ANY bike, need come into question...

And choices of whether to CBT on L's for ANY time along the way, merely one of the many to be made. What 'bike' you'd ultimately like after you have a licence, one even further up the road.

DONT RUSH... rushing be fast way to hurt on a motorbike! On thing at a time, and all things will come.

Here and now, worry about that CBT and your theory... THEN the 'wisdom' behind going all the way to a full-licence, BEFORE worrying about what bike you may ride on it as an 'early rider' getting experience under your belt.... which is when the 'real' learning usually starts, rather than ends!
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

3,208 words.

B-
Can do better.
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supZ
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PostPosted: 01:31 - 17 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soooo.. you fell off during your Compulsory Basic Training and... I'm sorry what was the question again?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 17 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: Fell off my bike on CBT Reply with quote

Jamieking86 wrote:
Hi guys, I'm new here but after a bit of advice i suppose.

So I'm 31 now, my dad's been into bikes all his life, I used to ride pillion 15+ years ago which was great fun, but when i moved out I kinda lost interest. Last couple of years though I've been wanting a bike, when you watch films or programmes and their crusiing along I'm like "i want that so bad" so i booked my CBT for yesterday (14/12/17). I was really nervous but really excited at the same time.

So i got their around 8:45, went through equipment and safety etc, we was hummng and arghing wether to ge through with the riding due to a little ice on the grounds. We did though and just took it steady....ish. First couple of laps i was really wobbly, the bike wanted to go left, right, left, right, i could not get it to go in a straight line. After 3 laps I felt like I was getting more control, probably relaxing more, but on 1 corner i lost balance of the bike, I panicked and squeezed the front brake (bad idea), dropped the bike, went flying and broke the clutch lever, he didn't have a spare so we had to call it a day and I've got to go back next week. I'm having major doubts now about my skills, I obviously wasn't on it long, but i just couldnt get the thing to go in a straight line. I have researched it since and people say to relax, If i'm tense then the bike won't do what it's made to do. I was so gutted, all i wanted to do was get back on and try again, but the bloody clutch lever... now i have to wait till next wednesday (20/12/17). Any helpful tips on how to relax? Lol.


Get a bicycle and ride it down the road. If you can ride that straight you can ride a motorcycle. If you can't, spend the next three days learning to.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 17 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apologise for Tef. The local training school let him make the tea one day and... well, you know how security guards get to believing that they own the building.

It's not a bad idea to get a 125, plenty of us did it. I rode around on one quite happily for a year, even did a bit of touring on it (aborted due to the "upgrades" I'd done Embarassed).

Your problem is that there's no longer a route to a full license other than by riding a big bike. The smallest training bike you're likely to come across will be something like an ER6 or Suzuki Gladius / (new) SV650. You're going to have to find a way to get on with that sooner or later.

You can pick up good habits on a 125, but also bad ones too: a belief that you can never accelerate your way out of trouble, or that you can always stop on a bad camber without problems.

All that said, it's a viable route to get your confidence up. You can even go ahead and do the module 1 test on your own 125. It won't get you closer to a full license, but at £15.50 it's a cheap way to practice the mod 1 and get any test nerves out of the way. You could even go on and do mod 2 as well, but that costs a bit more. Still cheaper than a day of Big Bike training though, so it's not a crazy option as a way to prepare for a full A test if you're not confident.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 17 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since nobody else appears to have asked, can OP ride a bicycle?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 17 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_Pagin wrote:
Since nobody else appears to have asked, can OP ride a bicycle?

ur mum, etc.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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