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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: JMI: Just Motorcycle Insurance Brokers Reply with quote

Bike ins was up for renewal, went via Confused.com and best policy seemed to be with Just Motorcycle insurance.

On proposing the policy I was asked to estimate my annual mileage and di this at between 4000-4999 miles.

I took out the policy at 8:45pm last night, all online without actually speaking to a representative, on getting the docs I discovered a clause that stated that if I exceeded my estimate they would unlikely pay out in the event of a claim, in the past this 'estimate' has always been that, an estimate, and was not a hard and fast amount that I couldn't exceed, I do understand that if my mileage was wildly different from the estimate it may cause problems, but I've never had it stated as a hard and fast number.

I called a young lady called Lauren this morning, her tone was unhelpful, argumentative and downright condescending, not to mention she would not allow me to speak and kept interrupting, she also informed me that she would refund what I had paid minus £25 admin and cancellation fee, which I found highly unacceptable as did the Financial Obudsman when I called for advice, a cooling off period is that (currently 14days) and given I had called at the earliest opportunity I felt it tantamount to extortion. This company is a part of Carole Nash insurance, and when I said this to Lauren the Customer service Argumentative, she suggested I complain if you like we are their Sister company, not owned by them (which is wrong) So in my complaint email I copied in confused.com and the MD of Carole Nash

I have complained via phone and email and have asked for a full refund or a Final Response letter.

I would suggest that anyone taking out a new policy consider if they want to deal with a company with such a practice as Just Motorcycle Insurance they consider it carefully, I'll let you know how I get on.

TL;DR Avoid JMI:Just Motorcycle Insurance they will try and rip you off with unscrupulous cancelation practices.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

They can charge the reasonable cost of setting up the policy plus a pro-rata for cover.

They can't charge a "cancellation" fee. But that's semantics as the Ombudsman has held that up to £50 "set up" is reasonable (nobody laugh).

Why so salty over the mileage? It's a risk factor like any other.

Let's see the wording of this clause then. The actual wording, not your interpretation of it.
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
They can charge the reasonable cost of setting up the policy plus a pro-rata for cover.

They can't charge a "cancellation" fee. But that's semantics as the Ombudsman has held that up to £50 "set up" is reasonable (nobody laugh).

Why so salty over the mileage? It's a risk factor like any other.

Let's see the wording of this clause then. The actual wording, not your interpretation of it.


Why so salty over mileage? Ive never had any estimated mileage propsed been held as the maximum allowed, the clue here is in the word ‘estimated’ if they had asked at proposal stage for me to set a maximum allowed mileage (as in some classic car policies) then that woild be different.

I was not given the clause at the time of placing the policy, only on receopt of doc actual wording is:

730 E730 Declared Mileage During Policy Period
Your premium is based on the vehicle`s annual mileage, as declared to your insurance intermediary at inception of this policy. If you exceed this limit within the policy period, your policy may be invalidated and in the event of a claim, cover would be inoperative.

I understand the wording, but it’s not a clause I was happy with, and had it been stated at proposal stage I wouldnt have went ahead, as for any pro rata use I cancelled at the earliest opportunity, given they were closed for business when i placed the policy, so much in fact that the underwriters had no details of the policy, so any setup or admin fee was moot point. Financial Ombudsman agreed in my circumstances I should be able to cancel without charge. They also apply this policy to any automatic renewals they make, licence to print money methinks.

Wether you think I am right or wrong people can make up their own minds. I bought a product online, the product I bought had a clause in it that wasn’t made clear at time of order, therefore the product I bought was different to what i ordered, I had mo way of knowing this until I had purchased the policy, the cooling off period is there gor this very reason, if you are happy to deal with a company that charges for cancelling in timely manner due to a discrepancy on their part and has the audacity to charge you for it, be my guest, but I’m not putting up with it.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:14 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mind thinks that you either seriously lowballed the mileage, or that you're getting high-horsey over nothing.

How much do you think you should be able to exceed your estimate before you're the one abusing them? 10%? 20%? 50%? 100%? More?
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
My mind thinks that you either seriously lowballed the mileage, or that you're getting high-horsey over nothing.

How much do you think you should be able to exceed your estimate before you're the one abusing them? 10%? 20%? 50%? 100%? More?


I do around 5k miles a year, so never lowballed them, but in all the countless policies I’ve had over the years this estimate has never been a maximum. As for getting high horsey, mot at all, if the limit was 5k and i go slighlty over that I would need to inform them mid term making an adjustment with subsequent costs, as to wether me doing more than my stated estimate, i don’t know what the percentage is, but then again if I do less neither do they give me a rebate.

My main complaint was the policy was not the same as the one ordred, so no problem just cancel, but then to be charged for this was the unacceptable part and the reason for my post.

Anyway, I’ve since had a call from them as I’d cc’d Carole Nash’s MD into my complaint, they agreed with me that the terms I signed up for being an estimated amount was different to the terms of the policy and I will recieve a full refund.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estimated means just that, I estimate that I'll do about 1000 miles per month, so tell the insurance I'll do less than 13k a year to give myself extra to cover some longer trips that I may or may not do and I get a policy calculated on risk accordingly. But If I actually do 13100 miles in the year I would hope my insurance is still in effect since it's not much over the estimate, since the estimate was exactly that.

Proof that I've exceeded is going to be difficult as no one has asked for my current millage.

a hard limit of 13k and I go over, even by 10 miles could invalidate my cover seems unfair, unless I agreed to it at the point of taking out the policy.

The OP has read his policy documents, found something that does not suit, has tried to cancel at the earliest point he can and gotten bullshit from the person on the other end of the phone.

I get that they're protecting themselves from "yeh, I do 3k a year mate, oh, I've happened to do 5k this year" but do you trust your insurance company to make reasonable allowance on a limit, I don't.
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Analogkid wrote:
I do around 5k miles a year, so never lowballed them,


Anal Log Kid wrote:
On proposing the policy I was asked to estimate my annual mileage and di this at between 4000-4999 miles.


You told them you would do under 5K a year.

Rolling Eyes


That's just semantics, based on an oft said phrase, I guess you are just looking for an argument, in the past I mentioned that I would do around 15k a year at the time of my policy, the agent said best to say 14999, I have done so over since, your previous post is just nonsense, I did say earlier I could understand if my mileage was wildly different (as in your ridiculous example) then they would have every right to refuse, but get your mum's dictionary out and look at the word 'estimate' and see if you can find anywhere it states that this is a maximum, your just looking to pick a fight I guess, has someone stolen your dinner money today?

Anyway that's all I'll respond to you so crack on, as you can see from my previous post the Insurance broker agreed with me when looking into it, but some little hat on the internet wants to pick a fight coz he's insecure, awwww bless
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:
Estimated means just that, I estimate that I'll do about 1000 miles per month, so tell the insurance I'll do less than 13k a year to give myself extra to cover some longer trips that I may or may not do and I get a policy calculated on risk accordingly. But If I actually do 13100 miles in the year I would hope my insurance is still in effect since it's not much over the estimate, since the estimate was exactly that.

Proof that I've exceeded is going to be difficult as no one has asked for my current millage.

a hard limit of 13k and I go over, even by 10 miles could invalidate my cover seems unfair, unless I agreed to it at the point of taking out the policy.

The OP has read his policy documents, found something that does not suit, has tried to cancel at the earliest point he can and gotten bullshit from the person on the other end of the phone.

I get that they're protecting themselves from "yeh, I do 3k a year mate, oh, I've happened to do 5k this year" but do you trust your insurance company to make reasonable allowance on a limit, I don't.


Precisely, thanks for the support, that's exactly why I posted, had they refunded me in full this morning without a fight, I wouldn't have posted.
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Analogkid wrote:
some little hat on the internet wants to pick a fight coz he's insecure, awwww bless


Says the bloke who underestimated his declared mileage then when he found out he was supposed to answer honestly and it would cost a £25 admin fee for a full refund, rang up the insurance broker to whine, phoned up the Ombudsman, wrote an email to the MD of Carol Nash plus Confused.com and and posted this on here to "warn" others that this company expects you to answer honestly.

Good luck finding an insurance policy where your "estimated" mileage is just a non binding nonsense, not worthy the paper it's written on. Surely this is standard practice in the terms and clauses nowadays?

A quick Google shows most use the same wording. This is Admiral...

Quote:
You change your annual mileage - if you said you were going to do an annual mileage of up to 5,000 when you started your car insurance policy but find you're travelling a lot further than expected, you need to let us know immediately. Underestimating your annual mileage could invalidate your insurance in the event of a claim.


I did answer honestly, i do an ESTIMATED 5k a year, as I’ve already stated if my difference was wildly outside of that I’d expect to be voiding, but if I was a few hundred over...anyway as stated by me more than once they AGREED that they were in the wrong, but you go on and keep having a pop. Just for the record, I phoned ombudsman for afvice, not to complain, and I cc’d carole nash md in to my email to complaints department, more because of the way the telesales girl handled it, and at her insistsnce she said complain to CN if you want we are not the same co, turns out she was. Wasn’t you was it? Is that why you’ve got your nickers in a twist over a post you coild have ignored given you thought it too trivial? Is your name Lauren?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you didn't expect to be delivering Rainpal®s on your bike, but half way through the year you started doing so due to massive demand, would you expect to still be covered?
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
If you didn't expect to be delivering Rainpal®s on your bike, but half way through the year you started doing so due to massive demand, would you expect to still be covered?


Of course not, once i have my rainpal I’ll be able to ride in the rain, in Scotland that can treble my mileage, if my circumstances change drastically I would inform them and pay.

The issue was they asked for an estimate, by definition a figure expected to be variable, not a hard and fast ‘limited mileage figure’ when I objected I was charged for their mistake, thats what annoyed me.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone got any idea how much the insurance rises per 1000 miles?

I would bet it pennies. Bit like saying you have an alarm, all it does is make you more likely to get refused a payout of they can prove it wasn't working.

I'm with JMI. I tell them 8000 a year and have probably done 800 this year. So what. In fact they never asked for proof of mileage anyway so I doubt if it makes an iota of difference.

arry will be along to give us the gen hopefully.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't assume that more miles will mean a higher price as it's all down to what the big table of statistics says. Thumbs Up
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Has anyone got any idea how much the insurance rises per 1000 miles?

I would bet it pennies. Bit like saying you have an alarm, all it does is make you more likely to get refused a payout of they can prove it wasn't working.

I'm with JMI. I tell them 8000 a year and have probably done 800 this year. So what. In fact they never asked for proof of mileage anyway so I doubt if it makes an iota of difference.

True, I reckon. It's always worth asking what the difference is; after all it's a quote. In my case Fully Comp wasn't much different to TPFT, and annual mileage didn't change across quite a range, so ask and go with the upper limit for the same price. Saying yes to a pillion (even though I've only taken a passenger once) made zero difference to the premium. Same with certain "modifications". I'm not even certain an alarm and chain makes much difference to the premium. Ask questions.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 02:03 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Don't assume that more miles will mean a higher price as it's all down to what the big table of statistics says. Thumbs Up

I could (almost?) imagine a scenario where somebody has provided an estimated annual mileage of 10,000, but in reality only does 1,000 and has a prang... and then gets his claim thrown out for wrongly estimating the annual mileage (maybe someone who covers 10,000 a year is very experienced and less likely to make a claim than someone who only does 1,000?) Well probably not.... but the point is you can't second-guess what insurers are going to believe, with their big table.

Eg, my mum (85) and son (21) - both relatively high insurance risks due to their ages - get reduced premiums by adding me as a named driver on their policies (regardless of whether I ever actually drive their vehicles)
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 02:30 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Ste wrote:
Don't assume that more miles will mean a higher price as it's all down to what the big table of statistics says. Thumbs Up

I could (almost?) imagine a scenario where somebody has provided an estimated annual mileage of 10,000, but in reality only does 1,000 and has a prang... and then gets his claim thrown out for wrongly estimating the annual mileage (maybe someone who covers 10,000 a year is very experienced and less likely to make a claim than someone who only does 1,000?) Well probably not.... but the point is you can't second-guess what insurers are going to believe, with their big table.

Eg, my mum (85) and son (21) - both relatively high insurance risks due to their ages - get reduced premiums by adding me as a named driver on their policies (regardless of whether I ever actually drive their vehicles)


But unless it was in the last month of the year covered, how could the insurance even interpolate the mileage. Some people only ride in summer, some might do 3000 miles in one month touring and bugger all for the rest of the year and some commute all year round.

I'm sure it's just a 'the more miles you do, the more chance of a crash' scenario.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

op


how many miles does your bike have and did they ask for proof


if not how would they ever have known how many miles you had done
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyscooter wrote:
op


how many miles does your bike have and did they ask for proof


if not how would they ever have known how many miles you had done


They asked, but not for proof, however I answered honestly, in fact as I couldn’t be bothered looking I rounded it down, as I said i thought I was giving an estimate, not a maximum.
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P.
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to guess the wording says your annual mileage. Not the bikes.

That's cool, if you go over, you gave it to a friend to do a few trackdays / Europe trip with his own insurance.
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
andyscooter wrote:
op


how many miles does your bike have and did they ask for proof


if not how would they ever have known how many miles you had done


MOT tests record mileage year on year.


True, my bike is less than 2 years old though.
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