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Liverpool Prison - worst conditions ever seen......

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Diggs
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Central to our philosophy is the relationship between staff and offenders" is what it says in the G4S job description. What a load of rubbish!!! It used to be that Officers on a wing got to know the decent prisoners and tried to help the vulnerable ones. Now there are so few G4S 'Officers' that this doesn't happen and wings are controlled by gangs.

A mate of mine was a Prison Officer until his establishment went private and he had to take a job with G4S. He left the service shortly afterwards in part because reduced staffing numbers meant little chance of immediate back-up whenever there was trouble. This reduction in numbers lead in turn to the bullies taking control, and now everything in prisons revolves around the supply of drugs. Without an increase in staff numbers the situation won't change and 'clients' will continue to come out more f*cked up than when they went in.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 02:11 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I had no idea that Walton prison was still up and running, I assumed it became disused when they built the new prison in Fazakerley.
All the talk of non payment of fines, when I lived in and worked not too far away from there, it was always said that Walton prison was a debtors prison, not sure if that was true, at the time.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
How about refusing to award prison contracts to G4S and the like until the put their hands in our pockets to build some decent prisons?

FTFY. That's mdp72's tax money you're spending there.

All I'll say is that there's plenty of budget in HMPS for computer systems.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with HT, in that dehumanising criminals leads to higher rates of re-offence.

The cost of prison is the time without building your career, without having sex (hopefully Shocked ) and without the freedom to mingle with people you like.

It doesn't need to be a horror house.

As others have said though, capital punishment of various crimes seems to be a good way to ease congestion in the services.

Repeat offenders for just about anything with a direct victim, pretty much need removing.

There are plenty of people, though, who consider it a nice place to be. Ala these boys Laughing

Positive Thinking Guys

That's where it becomes a bit galling, if you do make it too "humane", some people would like to move in long term. Not everyone has much life ambition.
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did enter this thread thinking, "poor cwims, boohoo".

I've changed my mind after reading these comments. While I'm not saying they should have playstations etc., I feel the "facilities" should be at least clean and fit for function. I also agree with the idea that the inmates be put to work, farming is a pretty good idea. Get them up nice n early, give them a good feed and load them onto a bus when it's harvest time. At the end, well done lads (n lasses n all in between and extra) you've fed the country.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

They could learn a trade while they're in. Glazing, fixing toilets, pest extermination. Opportunities, not problems.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrSnoosnoo wrote:
Get them up nice n early, give them a good feed and load them onto a bus when it's harvest time.

Have you ever seen the film Shawshank redemption? IIRC the prison warden is bribed NOT to tender for contracts because he can under cut any commercial firm. Such a thing is happening in the US now where prison labour is so much cheaper.

Therefore anything done by prisoners and or community punishments must be worthless and something nobody will pay for.

They pick up litter? Then well council waste disposal workers lose their jobs.



DrSnoosnoo wrote:
At the end, well done lads (n lasses n all in between and extra) you've fed the country.


You'd also very quickly get a WTO trade dispute too for illegal subsidy.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
I'm with HT, in that dehumanising criminals leads to higher rates of re-offence.


And yet,
RichardCranium wrote:
I'd rather go live on the streets than go back to HMP Liverpool


If the conditions were an intentional punishment I'd disapprove, but those facilities didn't break themselves.
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RichardCraniu...
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PostPosted: 13:44 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


If the conditions were an intentional punishment I'd disapprove, but those facilities didn't break themselves.


Nor did I break them.

There are some truly despicable people in prison, don't get me wrong, but there are people in there for genuine mistakes (Wheelies). Normal people just looking to keep their head down, deal with the pain of being separated from their families quietly on their own, comply with the regime and dream hourly about the day the door shuts behind them for the final time.

For these people, the loss off their liberty is sufficient punishment. They then shouldn't be denied contact with the outside world for 4 weeks, be placed in a cell with no electricity with a paedophile off his cake nightly on spice, or a bag head who steals from you to pay for herion, have to sleep on the floor because their is no matress on the bed, have to swap what little worldly possessions they were allowed to bring in with them for a pillow, they shouldn't force themselves to get a cold shower because the only warm ones are where all the bad scumbags go, they shouldn't have to queue for half an hour of the hour they get out of their cell because there is only 3 phones working on the wing for 180 people, they shouldn't have to sleep in a cell with no glass in the window so the rain blows in onto you in the night when you're sleeping, they shouldn't have to lie awake at night listening to the screws laughing whilst a young lad tries to kill himself, they shouldn't have half an hour cut off the 2 hours a month they get to see their family because because some twat is arguining with his Mrs, they shouldn't have their leg broken in an assault and then wait 3 weeks for an x-ray, they shouldn't have to sit in darkness for 2 weeks because someone has blown the electric trying to light a cigarette. I could go on for hours

Prison shouldn't forget those they can actually help, because of the actions of those who don't want help.

It's also worth noting that there are things at HMP Liverpool that just don't get fixed because it's cheaper to pay the fines than it is to fix them
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
How about refusing to award prison contracts to G4S and the like until the put their hands in our pockets to build some decent prisons?

FTFY. That's mdp72's tax money you're spending there.

All I'll say is that there's plenty of budget in HMPS for computer systems.


I probably pay more on tax than he does. Self employed scrotes like him are fiddling all the time.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
They pick up litter? Then well council waste disposal workers lose their jobs.

At less cost to the taxpayer, since we're paying for then to lounge around in cells doing nothing anyway.

And freeing up the "council"[*] drones to use their in-demand skill sets to mop floors in McDonalds, thereby creating competition for those jobs and again driving down prices. Until they're replaced by MopBot, again to the benefit of those who pay for things.

Sounds to me like we've got a union agitator on our hands.

[*] Since we're pretending it's 1989 and everything hasn't long since been outsourced.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
[*] Since we're pretending it's 1989 and everything hasn't long since been outsourced.



Well prisons could always be outsourced. I mean car battery to gonads highly effective intelligence sourcing methods has been outsourced to others for ages now.

Why not outsource the entire prison system to some 4th world hell hole like Somalia or Glasgow?
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
DrSnoosnoo wrote:
Get them up nice n early, give them a good feed and load them onto a bus when it's harvest time.

Have you ever seen the film Shawshank redemption? IIRC the prison warden is bribed NOT to tender for contracts because he can under cut any commercial firm. Such a thing is happening in the US now where prison labour is so much cheaper.

Therefore anything done by prisoners and or community punishments must be worthless and something nobody will pay for.

They pick up litter? Then well council waste disposal workers lose their jobs.



DrSnoosnoo wrote:
At the end, well done lads (n lasses n all in between and extra) you've fed the country.


You'd also very quickly get a WTO trade dispute too for illegal subsidy.


I tried to imagine a time when the officers aren't corrupt scvm and that we tell the world to piss off if they think they can control how we produce our food.

Fair enough if it gets exported and sold abroad, but for local/national consumption they can keep their oar out.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Why not outsource the entire prison system to some 4th world hell hole like Somalia or Glasgow?

I honestly, truly, no-joke think that we should give transportation another try.

Bribe said 4th worlders to give citizenship to our recidivists, and ship them off there, one way.

Flaws?
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TbirdX
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've solved this already..in fact it's a triple win.

All prisoners should be made to run on treadmills every day, connect said mills to the grid.

No run, no money or treats.

Everyone runs, gives them a purpose, we get free energy and everyone comes out of prison fitter and healthier, thus saving more money for the NHS.

Sorted.

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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

TbirdX wrote:
I've solved this already..in fact it's a triple win.

All prisoners should be made to run on treadmills every day, connect said mills to the grid.




You're just describing history. Treadmills were used in prisons in from 1818 till just before ww1 and some were used to grind grain.
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TbirdX
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
TbirdX wrote:
I've solved this already..in fact it's a triple win.

All prisoners should be made to run on treadmills every day, connect said mills to the grid.




You're just describing history. Treadmills were used in prisons in from 1818 till just before ww1 and some were used to grind grain.


Well there you go...add 'tried and tested' to my regime.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:


Fraud and non-payment of fines?


Fraud? Well possibly, but not if the fraud is cloning someone's credit card and leaving a shitload of problems for them to try and sort out.

Non payment of fines, OK, I suppose depending on what the fine was for in the first place, So what do you do if someone doesn't pay the fine? Say, don't worry about it, no big deal. We'll let you off if you won't pay?

Still not twanging the violin strings yet. Wink


There are plenty of activities that would be considered fraud in some context but go unpunished.
Take the people who are meant to be running these prisons. Are they being run properly ,no. Are they being paid to run them properly, yes.

Maybe they should do some time in there until it's in a proper running order.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't break cons by treating them like shit (the ones who aren't muppets at least, a minority), you turn them into vicious and vengeful re-offenders. Guys who never got done for more than dealing/trafficking pot, they come out in many cases with a real thirst for payback (and understandably so).

But the scum responsible for the prison conditions, the real sociopathic criminals, they don't give a shit about the consequences for Joe Public, being as how they're not part of it.

But ya'll keep up your cretinous mob-minded baying and pray it's not one of your nearest and dearest who falls foul of an ex-con with an agenda.

Cattle. Rolling Eyes
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe people could not commit crimes?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
maybe people could not commit crimes?


Now there's a novel suggestion but I expect not being able to commit crimes is against their human rights.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
maybe people could not commit crimes?

That is the ultimate objective but until then, reducing the reoffending rate is a good place to start.

If people who go into prison as a low level piece of shit are going to be a hardened piece of shit when released with more connections and knowledge than when they went into prison, sending them to prison hasn't worked from a rehabilitation point of view or a punishment point of view.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:


If people who go into prison as a low level piece of shit are going to be a hardened piece of shit when released with more connections and knowledge than when they went into prison, sending them to prison hasn't worked from a rehabilitation point of view or a punishment point of view.



Thinking well solitary confinement for all prisoners for all sentences is the obvious solution.

Cost more? Well just make the cells smaller Japanese hotel type size.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Life will eventually catch up with 2000 AD.

http://i.imgur.com/U33wFuj.jpg
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardCranium wrote:
There are some truly despicable people in prison, don't get me wrong, but there are people in there for genuine mistakes (Wheelies). Normal people just looking to keep their head down, deal with the pain of being separated from their families quietly on their own, comply with the regime and dream hourly about the day the door shuts behind them for the final time.

For these people, the loss off their liberty is sufficient punishment. They then shouldn't be denied contact with the outside world for 4 weeks, be placed in a cell with no electricity with a paedophile off his cake nightly on spice, or a bag head who steals from you to pay for herion, have to sleep on the floor because their is no matress on the bed, have to swap what little worldly possessions they were allowed to bring in with them for a pillow, they shouldn't force themselves to get a cold shower because the only warm ones are where all the bad scumbags go, they shouldn't have to queue for half an hour of the hour they get out of their cell because there is only 3 phones working on the wing for 180 people, they shouldn't have to sleep in a cell with no glass in the window so the rain blows in onto you in the night when you're sleeping, they shouldn't have to lie awake at night listening to the screws laughing whilst a young lad tries to kill himself, they shouldn't have half an hour cut off the 2 hours a month they get to see their family because because some twat is arguining with his Mrs, they shouldn't have their leg broken in an assault and then wait 3 weeks for an x-ray, they shouldn't have to sit in darkness for 2 weeks because someone has blown the electric trying to light a cigarette. I could go on for hours

That sounds exactly how prison should be. Life's setup for the lowest common denominator, why should prison be any different? If it's 'nice' crims don't see it as punishment, I've heard it described by inmates as a period of time they don't have to pay any rent Rolling Eyes I've heard prison guards (first-hand) describe all the perks they get in 'nicer' (more typical) prisons.

Ste wrote:
rehabilitation

https://youtu.be/cGo5rXUAH2o?t=2m16s

BCF translation: https://youtu.be/Ja0vDibLQW4?t=2m22s
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