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Brexit and Defence ?

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toby1
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Brexit and Defence ? Reply with quote

It was reported the other day that the defence budget will be some £7 billion short. So we compromise our Country's defence and make enforced cuts.

Then we promise that cnut Junker £40 billion+ Twisted Evil

Worlds gone mad Rolling Eyes
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: Brexit and Defence ? Reply with quote

toby1 wrote:
Then we promise that cnut Junker £40 billion+ Twisted Evil

What makes you think it will be as low as £40 billion?

Non-rhetorical question. What's the source for that figure?
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lihp
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: Brexit and Defence ? Reply with quote

toby1 wrote:
It was reported the other day that the defence budget will be some £7 billion short. So we compromise our Country's defence and make enforced cuts.

Then we promise that cnut Junker £40 billion+ Twisted Evil

Worlds gone mad Rolling Eyes


Its what the people voted for.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if you stop Brexit, the defence budget will still go down, just like it has done all those years we were in the EU. The money has been given to Eastern Europe and foreign aid instead.
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toby1
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said 40+ Rog...........I don't expect our 'contribution' to stop at that.

I think Farage hit it on the head when he said a meeting between an elected Prime Minister and a couple of non elected Eurocrats resulted in giving them exactly what they wanted, how dare the bastards from the original Euro buying group toss our Country around and get away with it.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I read this the more you sound like Americans.

The definition of an American is of course a nation where the people don't take any responsibility for their actions.

Ah yes I shall order a McDonalds coffee! I shall then place it between my legs while driving. What! Such an action is stupid NO your coffee is too hot.

Immigrants this. Brexit that, Eastern Europe etc.

Um no the reason for the general decline is the 50+ years of mis-management and short term policies with no reversal in sight.


Take for instance nuclear power. No new plants since 1995 ~ 22 years yet people act all surprised when nobody in the country knows how to build them any more. People then go on and complain when you have to ask somebody else to build them. They they complain about the price from a total monopoly supplier.

Absolutely nothing to do with immigration, foreigners or Brexit.


Im-a-Ridah wrote:
foreign aid instead.


You do realise foreign aid isn't a free lunch right? Foreign aid exists to lock foreigners into unfavourable contracts and thus boost exports. Tanzania was locked into buying an obsolete radar system about a decade ago as 'repayment' for foreign aid.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

toby1 wrote:
I said 40+ Rog...........I don't expect our 'contribution' to stop at that.

Why is your anchor figure 40 though?

Do you know?
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Do you know?



See the nuclear power and Soyuz post.

If you're the monopoly provider then the price they say is the price and it is non-negotiable.

Plus there is also the aspect of when you go to a mechanic and they don't want your business they'll give you a very high price to put you off.

Right now negotiations appear to be you're going to give me everythin' I want and I gonna giv you nuffink.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:


Ah yes I shall crack another beer/bottle of Jack. I shall then place it between my legs while driving.


FTFY. You must be reading different stuff to what I read Laughing
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 15:15 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Itchy wrote:


Ah yes I shall crack another beer/bottle of Jack. I shall then place it between my legs while driving.


FTFY. You must be reading different stuff to what I read Laughing



I'm referring to Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants

Quote:

On February 27, 1992, Stella Liebeck, a 79-year-old woman from Albuquerque, New Mexico, ordered a 49-cent cup of coffee from the drive-through window of a local McDonald's. Her grandson parked the car so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her coffee. Liebeck placed the coffee cup between her knees and pulled the far side of the lid toward her to remove it. In the process, she spilled the entire cup of coffee on her lap.[10] Liebeck was wearing cotton sweatpants; they absorbed the coffee and held it against her skin, scalding her thighs, buttocks, and groin.[11]

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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your head sure is filled with some junk, isn't it?
Very haphazard filing system though.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Your head sure is filled with some junk, isn't it?
Very haphazard filing system though.


Not really, it's called knowing history.

A lot of people say if you know history and the mistakes that are made then you can avoid making them. This doesn't hold up to scrutiny as others will make the same mistakes and you can watch helplessly.

What you can do is watch people make mistakes that have been made in history and ruthlessly exploit their mistakes to your own benefit.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Um no the reason for the general decline is the 50+ years of mis-management and short term policies with no reversal in sight.


Take for instance nuclear power. No new plants since 1995 ~ 22 years yet people act all surprised when nobody in the country knows how to build them any more. People then go on and complain when you have to ask somebody else to build them. They they complain about the price from a total monopoly supplier.

Absolutely nothing to do with... Brexit.

Yes it has. You're right about prolonged mismanagement but it's been masked by political and business expectations that someone else will deliver, exactly as your nuclear industry example. Time Britain stood on its own two feet again, or at least took the opportunity to try.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

Not really, it's called knowing history.


Yes, I'm sure the case you quoted is a very important part of history Laughing
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 17:26 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:


Yes, I'm sure the case you quoted is a very important part of history Laughing


I dunno one day I may find myself on the Chase quiz show.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
With controlled and honest immigration, we might be able to limit the drain on other state resources and suddenly be able to afford all the services we apparently can't at the moment, such as military and healthcare.

300,000 net migration my arse.


I doubt it. The problem with indigenous leaches is fairly significant on its own.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 20 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Itchy wrote:

Not really, it's called knowing history.


Yes, I'm sure the case you quoted is a very important part of history Laughing


Now now, I'm all for throwing some back at Itchy sometimes, but that case genuinely in landmark.

That was the first step towards "This packet of peanuts may contain nuts", and is as famous as R v R.

And one of the fantastic reasons the UK is in such a terrible state, and why China/Eastern nations are not, is because of belittling intelligence.

In China, Saturday night television is kids doing mental arithmetic or reading passionate political speeches.
We have z-list celebrities eating things, squealing and getting their tits out.

THIS is why we had such a shambolic pre-brexit campaign. THIS is why brexit happened. This is why the UK will be resigned to nothing but a place for rich foreigners to travel to to learn "proper English" to go use in every other corner of the world for business.

Yes, migration is a bastard, but the productivity of the average British worker dwindled to nothing over the years... Might as well bring in the hard workers from overseas.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 20 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
THIS is why brexit happened.

It happened because we, the people, were given a choice.

We also don't execute the losers of our reality telly for crimes against the State and then bill their families for the bullet.

But there's always room for improvement.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 20 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


Yes, I'm sure the case you quoted is a very important part of history Laughing


Now now, I'm all for throwing some back at Itchy sometimes, but that case genuinely in landmark.


If you feel you really need to know about that kind of thing, you crack on. I've nothing against it really.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 20 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:


In China, Saturday night television is kids doing mental arithmetic or reading passionate political speeches.
We have z-list celebrities eating things, squealing and getting their tits out.


I too despise Saturday (and much other) tv in the UK. But imo, life shouldn't all be the serious stuff. Life is made up of more things. Ever heard of fun? I ride (used to Rolling Eyes ) motorcycles. Shock, horror, it's not something I did to learn anything. I just did it for the fun.
Just an opinion, mind. If you want to be serious for every waking moment, cramming more facts into your head at every opportunity, I won't stop you.

Just to add some balance though, have you heard of BBC4? Wink
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 20 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a time when smart people made people feel inferior, so those people bettered themselves.

Now we just knock the smart people until they fuck off somewhere else Thumbs Up

Can't see any way that can blow up in our faces. What's the European Union again, how does it help us? Darkies, swipe "out".

Smart people don't sit around cramming useless facts in to their head, although they often use their time to do smarter things (possibly like listen to Radio 4), but due to being smart, can access apt information when it is suitable.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 20 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
There was a time when smart people made people feel inferior, so those people bettered themselves.


No, you've got that wrong. Those you call inferior didn't better themselves so they felt less inferior. They tried to better themselves so they could make improvements in their own lives. They didn't go out and learn just any old thing so they could wow people with lists of facts they could reel out at parties. They tried to learn things that would make a practical difference to their lives, to their situation.

Why should I care if you think yourself better than me? Doesn't help me in any way, nor does it motivate me to try to become as smart as you are. Happiness doesn't necessarily come from being a smart-arse.
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asta1
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PostPosted: 16:13 - 20 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:

THIS is why we had such a shambolic pre-brexit campaign. THIS is why brexit happened.


Whilst I strongly agree with what you're saying generally, I don't think this is really why we have had Brexit.

IMO, the reason we've had Brexit is because some (not all) people in Britain, especially of the older generation still genuinely believe that Britain is this great, top tier nation, the leader of the world, and everyone aspires to be like us.

Essentially, they're still stuck on this idea of Britain as it was somewhere between 1850 and 1900 as far as I can tell. Also, never forget that any and all problems we face today are imported from the EU, after all, it never happened in their day (I should mention that these people live in Yorkshire and would have been working in the 60s, '70s and '80s, presumably dodging job cuts, depressions and trade unionists whilst working a 4 day week due to powercuts).

For the proof of this, take a look at the graph Val posted in page 10 of the 'Brexit for the hard of hearing' discussion. The top 5 things pensioners are most interested in changing are just a blatant attempt to return to the glories of the past.

Because they're so convinced that all of the issues they've seen in this country are the fault of foreigners and the EU, it's only logical to them that as soon as we leave, Britain will return to this rose tinted memory that they have of the '60's, where (supposedly) men were men, we were completely self sufficient, there was no crime and no cuts and, don't forget, the sun never sets on the empire etc etc.

You see a bit of this attitude in the above. Yeah, defense spending is decreasing YOY in Britain, but the answer for this is not "Because of EU endorsed migrants" as seems to be the default, but rather a complex web of contributing factors.

Another example, I was talking to someone the other day about this issue and he was going on about the housing crisis and enroachment on the greenbelt in the local area since he was growing up there in the 70s. Sensible guy, made some good points, then went on to say, completely seriously "Never mind though, once we leave the EU and we can stop immigration we won't need to worry about any of this anymore."

His attitude was that the only reason any housing has been built since he was a kid is because of immigration. Not native population growth, not urban sprawl, not changing preferences for housing. Immigration. Only possible cause. He also genuinely thinks that leaving the EU will magically set that all to rights, it'll all be bulldozed and returned to pasture and no-one will ever dream of concreting our green and pleasant land ever again.

You see the same thing in the usual Brexit conversations. The aim is always to return to this mythical Pre-EU nirvana were Britain was perfect and everyone was completely happy. "Oh it's just the Germans trying to take over again (descends into irrelevant bullshit about WW2 as if the two were comparable)" or "We don't need the EU, our manufacturing capabilities are the best in the world and everyone wants to buy our stuff as their first choice (inevitably devolves to discussions about the british aerospace industry in the 1940s and '50s)" It's just baffling. Yeah, maybe some things were better when these people were growing up, but it wasn't perfect then either.

For many, the EU is just a convenient scapegoat they can use to blame for all the changes they've seen in Britain since the halcyon days of 19xx when they were a lad. A bit worrying for everyone to be so focussed on the past on this issue when presumably it's a chance for a better future, not just to relive history.
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