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chickenstrip
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 Posted: 16:35 - 20 Dec 2017  Post subject: |
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| asta1 wrote: | the older generation still genuinely believe that Britain is this great, top tier nation, the leader of the world, and everyone aspires to be like us. |
Must be true though. Otherwise, why would everyone else want to come here? 
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| Posted: 16:36 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| asta1 wrote: |
IMO, the reason we've had Brexit is because some (not all) people in Britain, especially of the older generation still genuinely believe that Britain is this great, top tier nation, the leader of the world, and everyone aspires to be like us.
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Typical patronising Europhile, but in one respect you are partially right.
Unfortunately there are millions of people who do hold that view of the UK. There are queues of them at Calais trying to smuggle themselves into the UK and many more who make it every day in the back of lorries. Why do you think that might be?
When it comes to the UK itself though, the majority of people who voted, voted to leave because they don't like what the EU is becoming or what it's doing to this country, be that uncontrolled immigration, forced refugee take in, giving our wealth to the poorer countries in Europe, paying for lavish EU overspending plus all the other reasons.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 16:42 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | | asta1 wrote: | the older generation still genuinely believe that Britain is this great, top tier nation, the leader of the world, and everyone aspires to be like us. |
Must be true though. Otherwise, why would everyone else want to come here? |
Also, does this mean the younger generation believe that Britain is a crap, bottom tier nation, the follower of the world, and no one wants to be like us?  I feel sorry for you lot Anyway, you could always just fuck off somewhere else, since you don't believe in your ability to improve things yourselves 
What I can't understand is, with all these wonderful facts the information generation have at their fingertips, why can't they improve things?
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asta1
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Posted: 17:13 - 20 Dec 2017  Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: |
Also, does this mean the younger generation believe that Britain is a crap, bottom tier nation, the follower of the world, and no one wants to be like us? I feel sorry for you lot Anyway, you could always just fuck off somewhere else, since you don't believe in your ability to improve things yourselves
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I'd like to think I'm fairly pragmatic about the whole thing. Do I think Britain is crap? Not at all, its a strong, first world nation with a good economy, an open and encouraging environment for business and generally good people. I like living here and whilst I'll explore my options, I have no immediate plan to leave.
However, I also accept that we are not as we once were, the leader of the free world. Do I think we can stand toe to toe with America, China, even Russia in todays world? Honestly, no. We have a place in todays world. It's definitely an important one, but I don't really believe that we can just dictate what we want and everyone will just blindly follow along. Those days have past.
As for Brexit, I really don't have any strong opinions. Maybe it'll be better, maybe it'll be worse. There don't seem to be too many concrete facts on the matter and the vote is cast, so we'll just have to see how it goes. Personally I don't think much'll change really. Maybe we'll be marginally better, could be marginally worse. For the average joe on the street? Meh.
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Itchy
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| Posted: 17:32 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | Also, does this mean the younger generation believe that Britain is a crap, |
No merely that the opportunities given to the prior generations are not available to them. Pensions, housing, education etc all the big important things.
The boomer generation saw fit to pull the ladder up after they went up it. They look at the unimportant things like phones and computers and think they're whining.
A very simple question to ask is if you were 17 now would the steps you took to get where you are now get you to a similar position?
The divide is quite stark. Polarbear for instance talks about his time in the Merchant navy and ship building... um what ship building industry?
Or dockers, containerisation eliminated most docker jobs.
| chickenstrip wrote: | What I can't understand is, with all these wonderful facts the information generation have at their fingertips, why can't they improve things? |
Because those who have 'won' or those who have benefited massively have a self vested interest in keeping things the way they are.
Pensions are costing about 35% of the entire UK government budget. And no they didn't pay anything meaningful compared to what they receive. This is set to rise to around 45%
Yet any suggestion of touching this is met with howls of indignation. For instance a few years ago maybe we ought to give free bus passes to the young so they can find work.
Follow the logic.
If the young can find work easier = they pay taxes.
If they pay taxes then their taxes will pay for spending on the ponzi pension scheme.
| chickenstrip wrote: | and no one wants to be like us? |
There is something called the expectation gap. There is something called Paris Syndrome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
Japanese tourists in their mind have a certain image of Paris. Reality does not meet these expectations.
Many people expect one thing when reality is very different. The UK has an incredibly good PR machine and soft power machine. So many people around the world think that everybody in the UK is a gentleman, bowler hats and politeness.
Yet are those things representative of chav sink estates?
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 17:46 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: | Blah, blah, blah |
So do something about it. Take matters into your own hands, instead of just blaming older generations for the fix you're in. Change things! Us old folks (lol) can't do everything for you, our time is nearly done.
As it happens, I didn't vote in the referendum for just this reason (and I ain't even that old!). It's not for me to decide the future of this country, especially as I don't have kids who will have to live in it either. It's no good just going onto social media and just pointing the finger and whining. Stop surrendering to "the facts". Act! You consider yourselves to be smart, don't you?
Ffs 
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| Sun Wukong |
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Sun Wukong
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| Posted: 17:47 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| asta1 wrote: |
As for Brexit, I really don't have any strong opinions. Maybe it'll be better, maybe it'll be worse. There don't seem to be too many concrete facts on the matter and the vote is cast, so we'll just have to see how it goes. Personally I don't think much'll change really. Maybe we'll be marginally better, could be marginally worse. For the average joe on the street? Meh. |
Pretty much my view, but the volatility in the pound can fuck right off.
| Quote: | Those you call inferior didn't better themselves so they felt less inferior. They tried to better themselves so they could make improvements in their own lives. They didn't go out and learn just any old thing so they could wow people with lists of facts they could reel out at parties. They tried to learn things that would make a practical difference to their lives, to their situation.
Why should I care if you think yourself better than me? Doesn't help me in any way, nor does it motivate me to try to become as smart as you are. Happiness doesn't necessarily come from being a smart-arse. |
I made an effort not to point that at either you, or myself. Or at least I tried to.
In general, smart people lead to wealth of nations. Why knock them for being smart? I just never got it.
The only reason could be insecurity. Nothing else makes any sense.
Ok, so better yourselves may not be the best way to phrase it, but it's similar to people in poor physical shape trying to mock physically fit people... like it's a failing.
It's egregious.
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Itchy
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 17:54 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| asta1 wrote: | Um. mostly because of all the things the stereotypical brexiter wants to abolish?
Welfare state, open borders, our treatment of refugees, free movement of people and employment for EUians.Are you saying that these are the things that make us a great nation? I thought they were literal Hitler? |
No, I'm no extremist 
My post was (partially) tongue-in-cheek. But I do think we should be able to control our own immigration levels, and decide for ourselves who can come in and who can't, especially after Merkel's cock-ups on the subject. That did worry me, rightly or wrongly. If I had voted in the referendum, I can't say truthfully that this wouldn't have influenced my decision, but it wouldn't have been the main thing that decided which way I went.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 17:58 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: |
Who says I haven't done anything? |
What have you done?
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asta1
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| Posted: 18:05 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: |
No, I'm no extremist
My post was (partially) tongue-in-cheek. But I do think we should be able to control our own immigration levels, and decide for ourselves who can come in and who can't, especially after Merkel's cock-ups on the subject. That did worry me, rightly or wrongly. If I had voted in the referendum, I can't say truthfully that this wouldn't have influenced my decision, but it wouldn't have been the main thing that decided which way I went. |
Ah, apologies. I always forget that despite bnp72s screeching, not everyone which is generally pro brexit is a swivelly eyed racist.
I must admit I mostly agree on your point about immigration, I just have no confidence whatsoever that it'll actually happen even if we do Brexit.
I mean, call me jaded, but we haven't even gone to the bother to track it properly at the moment even though we are entirely allowed to under current EU regs, anything we try to implement on that score will be both expensive and vocally resisted by a decent sized minority of sjws, plus I don't think any of our current crop of politicians have the balls to deal with the fallout even if they did have the power to dictate that policy.
To be honest thats my main issue with Brexit, I just don't think anything will actually change when it's cheaper and easier to just continue the status quo (which means just continuing to accept all EU regs either way). So really we may as well just have carried on as we were and paid our EU subs.
Still, at least it'll stave off the apocalypse that the remainers keep promising.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 18:09 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| Itchy wrote: |
Yet are those things representative of chav sink estates? |
Are "chav sink estates" representative of the UK?
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| Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah
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| Posted: 18:18 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | | Sun Wukong wrote: |
In China, Saturday night television is kids doing mental arithmetic or reading passionate political speeches.
We have z-list celebrities eating things, squealing and getting their tits out. |
I too despise Saturday (and much other) tv in the UK. But imo, life shouldn't all be the serious stuff. Life is made up of more things. Ever heard of fun? I ride (used to ) motorcycles. Shock, horror, it's not something I did to learn anything. I just did it for the fun.
Just an opinion, mind. If you want to be serious for every waking moment, cramming more facts into your head at every opportunity, I won't stop you.
Just to add some balance though, have you heard of BBC4?  |
Mental arithmetic is totally obsolete (see "calculator"). Where maths is actually useful (i.e engineering and physics) is about thinking in terms of maths, not so much actually doing equations. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 18:51 - 20 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| Sun Wukong wrote: | | Im-a-Ridah wrote: |
Mental arithmetic is totally obsolete (see "calculator"). Where maths is actually useful (i.e engineering and physics) is about thinking in terms of maths, not so much actually doing equations. |
Knowing things is obsolete (see "Google")
It's useful when it comes to actually getting shit done though. |
It's knowing the things that are relevant to your life/job/situation that counts. Just "knowing stuff"...well, like I said, if that's what floats yer boat.
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