Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Ethical question about vehicle sale.

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Dear Auntie BCF... Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:12 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Ethical question about vehicle sale. Reply with quote

Is it the sellers responsability to draw the buyers attention to a vehicle having been previously written off?

Just sold a bike and the guys been back to me complaining I didn't mention it having been written off in my advert.

For the purposes of this question, the vehicle in question is a 13 year old enfield bullet, it was sold for less than £1500, the incident in question had to have happened at least 6 years ago, it was a cat C write off and it has had at least three clear MOTs since.

Not a problem in terms of the sale, bill of sale signed, ownership transferred etc. just it worries me that this guy thinks I've ripped him off. I genuinely didn't think it mattered a jot, the damage it came with (dented tank, replacement saddle, both of which have been replaced and were mentioned in the advert) suggested a theft attempt rather than a crash to me. The price was a fair bit below the going rate.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

dodsi
Dirty Carny



Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:25 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, yes it is the sellers responsibility to be honest about whether it’s a write off. It’s about being honest and it can help you avoid incident when someone later finds out it’s a write off and wonders what else you forgot to mention because you didn’t think it mattered.

At least if you are honest about everything the buyer is informed about the repairs and condition and are aware of all facts b fore parting with their hard earned. This is regardless of whether or not the price is cheap as actually they may feel better about the purchase knowing why they are getting a bargain and why it actually doesn’t matter.

Also don’t insurance ask if it’s been written off in the passed when insuring a vehicle so you could potentially invalidate your insurance if you answer ‘no’ and it’s actually an unknown ‘yes’
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

King29
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:28 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple answer no. Had it happen to me, not with a bike but with a car. I went back to the seller, he said "Mate, you looked at all the documentation before handing over the money and it was clear as day printed on the bottom of the log book". Sure enough it was, also HPI checks cost £1.99 from several sources so no I wouldn't worry, not your fault.

dodsi wrote:

Also don’t insurance ask if it’s been written off in the passed when insuring a vehicle so you could potentially invalidate your insurance if you answer ‘no’ and it’s actually an unknown ‘yes’


I had that car for a few years, the insurance never asked me that, ever. Also insuring my bike(s), wife's bike and the new car, insurance has never asked us that question or when filling out insurance forms on line, I can never remember being asked that question.


Last edited by King29 on 11:30 - 28 Dec 2017; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

J4mes
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:28 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Dodsi.

Inb4 shouts of moralfag though.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:45 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a car, turned out to be cat c once, cat d another, I didn't check, seller didn't disclose.

I was the muppet. I was spending money and should have done the quick 3 quid check.

What I learnt, do before considering buying something... life lesson.
I personally don't care if something has been written off in the past, but twice to a car, bad times when you drop a few k on one.

Bikes, written off by a graze and a snapped indicator. I'd disclose if I knew, but would state why it was written off because some reasons are fucking stupid.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Diggs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:59 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be miffed if a seller didn't disclose something as significant as this....
____________________
Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:02 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caveat emptor, especially with a 13-year old bike. I would at least have asked how the tank you mentioned got damaged.
RAC wrote:
A professional motor trader does have to outline if a vehicle has been written off. However, a private seller doesn’t.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/what-does-cat-c-car-insurance-mean/
I'm not sure if that means "has ever been written off" or that you are selling it with a current Category C status.
I mean, does it lose that status once repaired, MOT'd and re-insured? Or is it a case of, "Once Category C, always Category C"?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

J4mes
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:15 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once it's on its on, although there is one firm based near Kettering who claim to have authority with HPI, and if a vehicle passes an inspection with them it will have the Cat Removed.

How legit that is, I don't know.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:18 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a private sale if they don't ask then you don't have to disclose it. It's a case of do your own research.

If they do ask you have to disclose it truthfully.

The thing is people sometimes can't add 1+1. If you're selling something super cheap then there has to be something wrong with it.


I sold an SV650 for £200 and he complained it was knackered. What do you expect for £200?

Similarly I sold somebody a rifle I said it needed extensive rework and repair. New this rifle was £900. I sold it him for £65.

He complained bitterly.


TBH buyer beware and the moment they leave your house or you leave their house after the sale block their number.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:02 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The price was a fair bit below the going rate."

Says it all really. You told him everything about the condition of the bike, it's barely worth spending the money on an hpi check anyway with a cheap bike.

What's to say he's only making a fuss because he's broken something and is just chancing his luck.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

andys675
World Chat Champion



Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:09 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
In a private sale if they don't ask then you don't have to disclose it. It's a case of do your own research.

If they do ask you have to disclose it truthfully.


this
____________________
Some people feel the rain, others just get wet.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:17 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It had genuinely slipped my mind. He was given the last 3 V5s with it too (the full document, I changed it over online) and as far as I can see, every receipt and document associated with it since it was bought new in India.

I also couldn't give a damn if a bike's been a write off. I've bought write-offs that were perfect. I've bought other bikes that were totally fucked but not written off (I'm totally convinced my current VFR has been flipped at some point, it's got road-rash on the master cylinder covers and a bananna-shaped oil cooler).

I've also had a 2 year old bike written off for two blown fork seals and a cut wiring loom following a theft. Mostly on recovery and storage costs while they fucked me about.

The other enfield I bought was a fucking deathtrap in the state it was in, but isn't marked as a write off.

Meh. These bikes are commonly going for £1600+ with no MOT at the moment. He got a running one with 12 months MOT for £1400. I'm sure he'll get over it.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

arry
Super Spammer



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:27 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the ad for that Stinky - it was well described and clearly a bitserthis-bitserthat so it's not like you'd expect it to have a completely unblemished history. 2/10 for the buyer, must try harder.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:48 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Block number, tell him to do one then.

If you've advertised it well enough and its below the price anything else would have gone for, gtfo.

Did the same with my CBR600RR when I sold it to Wave, it appeared to have a slightly iffy past with clock swaps etc, so I'm not going to list it at mega money, take what it owes me plus a few pints. It went to a decent person who wouldn't fuck me around.

Shame you sold it though, I'm looking for something odd. Laughing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:13 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:


Shame you sold it though, I'm looking for something odd. Laughing


Aye, I was wanting more than tree fiddy for it though. Wink You can't get a scrap one for less than £800.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

dodsi
Dirty Carny



Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:34 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Re: Ethical question about vehicle sale. Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
just it worries me that this guy thinks I've ripped him off.


Avoiding this or any other ill feeling i would always disclose everything I know that's not right with the vehicle - it can just save you a lot of hassle down the line.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Sun Wukong
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:52 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenny's Cutting In...

What about bicycles then?

I am stuck holding two lemoned bicycles, only 50euro each, that I would like to be shot of.

One has a bent back wheel, but is fancy.

One has a worn suspension bush that needs replacing... which seems next to impossible as the bike is unknown and dismantling that part is next to impossible (recessed hex head with a central pin obstructing).

I do not want these bikes in my life.

I do not want to sell lemons with lying.

I do not want to lose a lot of money (relative %) by honestly trying to sell them as complete heaps of shit.

What say you?
____________________
Top cat
"Hard times lead to hard people. Hard people lead to good times. Good times lead to weak people. Weak people lead to hard times." Smegballs
"Oh and STE balloons would be one of the nicer things we would receive at the office, the amount of dog turd in jiffy bags is not funny." Jsmith86
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

M.C
Super Spammer



Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:13 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

King29 wrote:
HPI checks cost £1.99 from several sources so no I wouldn't worry, not your fault.

Or for free. Did the V5c show it was written off? I think if it was written off in your possession, and you're essentially hiding that fact then maybe there's some sort of moral obligation, but I've done it twice Laughing... however I also described every fault on the bike (and that one had been in a crash (didn't know the circumstances of the other)).
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:43 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
What say you?

Tits Pics or gtfo.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

goto10
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:48 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

He should've HPI'd it it's that important to him. As said above, if he asked directly - then yes you should answer truthfully* But as it stands, caveat emptor.


*I'm not sure what sort of recourse there'd be, even if you'd lied (which, of course, will be what he'll claim) - it'd just be he-said/she-said *shrug*
____________________
'12 NC700S & '12 CB600F Hornet [Stolen by some dickless twat] Suzuki GT500 shed
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:51 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

goto10 wrote:


*I'm not sure what sort of recourse there'd be, even if you'd lied (which, of course, will be what he'll claim) - it'd just be he-said/she-said *shrug*


Well. I doubt he could claim much in fairness. He left with a folder in his hand containing three old V5c documents all stating it was a cat C write off on the front.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

dydey90
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:13 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit of a grey area really, if you’d mentioned it, would be have still bought it?

I once laughed my way out of a very dodgy second hand car dealer when he showed me the V5 for a Corsa that my Mrs was about to buy and it clearly said it had been written off two months previously. It didn’t show up on the HPI check so I’m guessing it takes time to register. He still swore it had never been damaged in any way.
____________________
This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
Past: CBR125,ER6f NINJA 650, ZZR600 Current: VFR750
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Oldie
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:18 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether or not you feel that you did the right thing I'm not surprised that the buyer is a bit miffed. I would be. It's just such an obvious point to mention in any advert, same goes for imports.

The reason that I'd want to know if it was a write off is so that the seller can explain whether the bike has been satisfactorily repaired, or not. This might give the buyer some kind of fall back position if the facts given were untrue.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:28 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cat C can be from something as trivial as slightly bent forks, which can be done by a very slight bump. Can't say it would bother me much though I have to wonder at the motives and thought processes of a person who doesn't HPI a vehicle before he buys it but does do it afterwards.

If the thought of riding a cat C bothers you that much - do the check beforehand.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:45 - 28 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
I have to wonder at the motives and thought processes of a person who doesn't HPI a vehicle before he buys it but does do it afterwards.



Some people attempt a quick turn on something. So they buy something and then quickly sell it on or they even have a buyer in mind while they're buying off you.

The next buyer who is charged more on this turn does a HPI check on it and then haggles down the price to the first buyer who now realises his quick turn isn't what it was and he wasn't so smart.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 91 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Dear Auntie BCF... All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.11 Sec - Server Load: 0.35 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 137.77 Kb