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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:27 - 18 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just been wondering if it's worth me approaching any martial arts clubs to see if there's anything I could get from them despite my physical limitations. I'm not going to be a fighter or anything like that - my injuries to my left arm and back couldn't sustain a Judo throw or arm lock for instance, and I can't use my left arm for anything particularly violent or that needs much in the way of dexterity or range of movement. But I have recently found myself more capable of physical exercise than I thought I would, and wonder indeed how far I might go with it.

But also as I hinted at in an earlier post, I know there is much more than just the fighting side to be taken from the study of such arts, and it all does still interest me. And I do wonder how much I could learn of the more obvious side despite those physical limitations, and how willing and/or able clubs would be to accommodate me. Would it be worth approaching any, do you think? Or am I just wasting my time even considering it?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 18 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I've just been wondering if it's worth me approaching any martial arts clubs to see if there's anything I could get from them despite my physical limitations. I'm not going to be a fighter or anything like that - my injuries to my left arm and back couldn't sustain a Judo throw or arm lock for instance, and I can't use my left arm for anything particularly violent or that needs much in the way of dexterity or range of movement. But I have recently found myself more capable of physical exercise than I thought I would, and wonder indeed how far I might go with it.

But also as I hinted at in an earlier post, I know there is much more than just the fighting side to be taken from the study such arts, and it all does still interest me. And I do wonder how much I could learn of the more obvious side despite those physical limitations, and how willing and/or able clubs would be to accommodate me. Would it be worth approaching any, do you think? Or am I just wasting my time even considering it?


It's not a waste of time at all. My Sifu would happily teach you (Heck, I'd happily teach you). The problem you have is that an epic amount of martial arts clubs are just dicks. Anything with MMA, any style which claims to have been invented by the 30 something teacher will probably not want you.

However, if you go for traditional arts (in my case Wing Chun) or even Tai Chi, you'll get some benefit from it. Any martial arts club that turns you away because you're not already a certain level of fitness is basically not worth it anyway.

I'd recommend a traditional Chinese style, ideally one that falls more into the 'soft' camp rather than 'hard'. I'm not ruling out other countries arts, but for example Shotokan Karate is the most popular form of Karate and is a 'hard' art. Tae Kwan Do is more of a sport these days (and requires pretty decent flexibility) and Krav Maga is basically a violent aerobic fitness class.

That said, some Hapkido styles might be ok, Aikido might be OK (although lots of falls and rolls) but I just don't know enough about the styles to comment with any certainty.

Personally I'd be looking at Tai Chi, but that can be considered a bit dull by some people. I can see why, but it'll be ideal for someone who doesn't already have perfect movement in their body.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 18 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply MarJay.
I have read something recently of how some clubs can be a bit elitist, which seems to me to be against the very philosophy of the arts anyway. But I could understand if a busy club simply doesn't have the time to spend with someone who is limited in the way that I am. It's not purely a fitness thing, but very real fragility and physical limitations of those injured areas, which are not going to improve - I'd have to avoid certain things that could damage them further, which I suppose might even pose a possible liability issue for any club I might want to join. And I'm the only person who can judge how far I can push things carrying those disabilities.

What I'd be hoping to take away from a club is something more rounded than just the fighting side, although I'd be interested to see how far I could go relying on my good arm - I still remember the first set from Lau Gar, and can still manage a few half-decent front snap kicks Smile

It also depends on what there is locally of course. I thought maybe this place sounds worth approaching:

https://www.beaconmartialarts.co.uk

I like the attitude they express here. I guess I ought to just contact them and see then.

BTW, did you see that programme by Idris Elba, doing the kick boxing thing? What did you think?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 18 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
BTW, did you see that programme by Idris Elba, doing the kick boxing thing? What did you think?


No, what channel was that on? Is it on catch up?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 18 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part 2 is on Quest tonight at 10:30.
To give you some background since you didn't see the first episode:

He apparently did some kick boxing in his younger years, and whilst he's generally a pretty fit guy, I think 12 months to train from virtually scratch for a professional fight is a BIG ask! He only got a short way into his training to find he had a disc pressing on his spinal chord, which meant surgery, which took some time out of that 12 months too Shocked
After the first episode, he's 2 months in.

What I found particularly interesting in the first episode was him going to a kick boxing gym in, er, Asia somewhere to learn something from one of the world's best teachers (sorry, I can't recall names), where he had a sparring bout with a heavyweight fighter who had been known to break opponents bones in such bouts, and had been told to spare him nothing Laughing Gave quite a good account of himself after initial wariness too. His main mentor is a long-time friend who has many titles to his name, so he isn't going into it completely blind - although I can't help but think he might come out of this whole experience blind or worse Laughing

He also went to a top karate dojo in Japan to learn something about pain control - fascinating stuff.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 18 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ran 13 miles this morning, 9 miles in i did a sub 27min Park Run.

Felt tired all day though.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 18 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good workout tonight. Instead of 20 times up and down the stairs at a walk, I managed 10 at a run, 2 sets. So I'll stick to running them now, and build on that. Dodgy knee must be building some strength, as I had it under control and no nasty twinges. Fell running anyone? Laughing

Everything else improving too. Several sets of 10 press-ups, where only a short while ago I could only manage sets of 5, although I think my good arm is actually doing most of the work. Already noticeably lost a bit of the flab, although I'm not bothered about weighing myself. Still a bit of a way to go on that score though. As long as I continue to see these improvements, I think I'll be able to stick at it. Very Happy
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 18 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idris Elba is, quite simply, nuts Laughing
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I've just been wondering if it's worth me approaching any martial arts clubs to see if there's anything I could get from them despite my physical limitations. I'm not going to be a fighter or anything like that - my injuries to my left arm and back couldn't sustain a Judo throw or arm lock for instance, and I can't use my left arm for anything particularly violent or that needs much in the way of dexterity or range of movement. But I have recently found myself more capable of physical exercise than I thought I would, and wonder indeed how far I might go with it.

But also as I hinted at in an earlier post, I know there is much more than just the fighting side to be taken from the study of such arts, and it all does still interest me. And I do wonder how much I could learn of the more obvious side despite those physical limitations, and how willing and/or able clubs would be to accommodate me. Would it be worth approaching any, do you think? Or am I just wasting my time even considering it?

I came to this late, but I agree with Mr Marjay.
At my place of training, we have alsorts of people.
I am not as agile or as strong as I used to be and have a catalogue of injuries , but I still train.
We have a girl with cerabal palsy and she will never be a fighter, but she learns new moves and hats off to her.
A good club will accommodate you.
Go ahead, do it and be like me, a broken wannabe ninja Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:

Go ahead, do it and be like me, a broken wannabe ninja Laughing


Broken Wannabe Ninja style - sounds like just the thing for me - know where any of their dojos are? Laughing

Oh ffs. It means spending money, doesn't it? Oh Christ, I've got other problems I have to sort first then Rolling Eyes
It's like, I need the motivation that such arts could give me to get back into life, but I can't do it until I've got back into life by earning again. Then, when I'm earning again, I probably won't have the energy to attend training nights. And round and round, world without end Crying or Very sad
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
I came to this late, but I agree with Mr Marjay.
At my place of training, we have alsorts of people.
I am not as agile or as strong as I used to be and have a catalogue of injuries , but I still train.
We have a girl with cerabal palsy and she will never be a fighter, but she learns new moves and hats off to her.
A good club will accommodate you.
Go ahead, do it and be like me, a broken wannabe ninja Laughing


We've got a guy who comes to our class who used to be a weightlifter and has had a double elbow replacement. His left arm is basically useless because he got an infection from the replacement, and he's had several operations to try to fix it. He still trains, and my Sifu tailors what he's teaching to suit his limitations. He's getting some movement back now, and that's partially from the exercises he was given in the class. The thing is though, you need to find a teacher with the time and patience to deal with you. Not everyone does, especially the younger ones who claim to be masters, especially those who claim to be masters of hybrid or mixed arts. Hybrid arts are basically B*llocks. They exist because the so called 'master' couldn't be bothered to learn an entire art, or was too impatient, or his original master refused to teach him the whole thing due to an attitude problem or whatever. Learning a martial art takes a long time. Wing Chun is a distilled art which originated from the Shaolin styles, in that you can learn the whole thing in 15 years of constant training rather than 30.

Remember that the original Shaolin monks used to train from a very early age at least 6 days a week many hours a day. Realistically people can't do that these days, so they learn an art for 3-4 years maybe once or twice a week, think they are good enough, then set up on their own and declare themselves 'master' of a new art. I can see why it happens, but it's why traditional arts are dying out. What with the popularity of MMA too, people just aren't interested in Kung Fu nowadays.

What the MMA guys fail to understand is that on the street eye gouging, groin strikes and strikes to the back of the head are used... It's getting to the point where MMA is just Jiu Jitsu because there are so many rules governing it. It's hardly the vicious spectacle it used to be, and that's kind of sad. And you've got kids these days looking at it as the pinnacle of fighting. Shame really.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have a great fondness for martial arts, although it is something that has lain dormant within me for a very long time now. I'm especially fond of traditional Chinese arts - I did Lau Gar for a while, and my brother used to do Wing Chun under Simon Lau. Neither of us got all that far with it, but we grew up in the times of the great Bruce Lee, and we, like many youngsters of the time, were fired by his movies, books, philosophy. Karate and Judo I tried, but I couldn't click with, and quickly gave them up.

As to hybrids being pointless, what about Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do? I think many martial arts have many things to add to the overall world of it all. I just read something about three top practitioners in their respective arts - all very different. They were very good at what they did and successful in competition. But one day, they decided to get together and teach each other their own styles and techniques. Each of them then went on to be even more successful in competition, because of the new things they had learned.

Now, because of my physical limitations, I just want something I can get involved in. I think I want it for personal development as much as anything else (never too late for that, is it?). I don't care if I remain a white sash for the rest of my life, I just want to be doing something positive, rewarding.

My current fitness training regime - I'm hoping that will eventually (not too long I hope!) give me the energy to do much more with my time. You wouldn't believe how far I had let myself go until recently. It's not the first time I've done that in my life either, but I always seem to eventually reach a point where my mind (and body) cries "Enough!", and I get fired up to have another crack at life. In the past, this has usually meant long-distance walks for a month or so, from which I've returned with the energy and enthusiasm to find work, get going again.

But it's harder this time, I'm not getting any younger, and the back injury in particular took it out of me for a long while. Hopefully I'm now coming to terms with the new limitations that imposes, but it isn't easy. The exercise I'm doing now seems at times to be improving things (core strength development?), but I think it's early days yet. I am heartened by what i have been able to achieve in a couple of short months of getting down to it - I'm 52 and a cripple after all, don't I get to have just a little pride in that? Laughing

For now, I think I will continue a while longer with this regime I have set myself - I want to get to the point where I can get back into work and still have energy for such things after. I don't know if I can actually do it. I can only try.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
As to hybrids being pointless, what about Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do?


Not really an argument for hybrids for a number of reasons:

1.) Bruce Lee was a bona fide genius. Ip Man only taught him the first and I think the second forms of Wing Chun. I'm not sure why this is, but I get the impression it's because he was a fighter and Sifu Ip was concerned that he might use the more dangerous and secretive aspects of the later forms to damage people on the streets. This is speculation, but the fact remains he didn't learn the whole style. What he did do, however, was work out pretty much exactly what he was missing, and add it in to form Jeet Kune Do. This is not something that average-joe-on-the-street can do, especially without any real world fighting experience (see below).

2.) One might also argue that Jeet Kune Do was almost completely new, and wasn't a hybrid of two arts. He did pick and choose bits, but I'd hesitate to refer to it as a hybrid in that sense.

3.) Bruce's theories evolved over time, and were tested in combat. As I said, he was a fighter and used to get himself into a lot of trouble. If he found something didn't work, he'd discard it. He also trained every day, constantly, even when he was watching TV, eating, doing other things, he was trying to improve himself and how he moved.

Most hybrid arts you find on the streets these days are none of these things. Like I said, the type of hybrid arts I'm bemoaning are the ones where a cocky bodybuilder learns 4 years of Mantis and 4 years of Jiu Jitsu and creates the "Dave Smith MantJitsu school" or some such nonsense and starts teaching at the age of 28 in order to try to squeeze some money out of his "8 long years of learning".
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I still have a great fondness for martial arts, Karate and Judo I tried, but I couldn't click with, and quickly gave them up.

Now, because of my physical limitations, I just want something I can get involved in. I think I want it for personal development as much as anything else (never too late for that, is it?). I don't care if I remain a white sash for the rest of my life, I just want to be doing something positive, rewarding.

But it's harder this time, I'm not getting any younger, and the injury took it out of me for a long while. Hopefully I'm now coming to terms with the new limitations that I'm 52 and a cripple after all, don't I get to have just a little pride in that? Laughing For now I can only try.


My take on that would be, maybe look at Self-defence classes or Krav Maga.
I stopped doing Karate in my teens after to many broken fingers Shocked Laughing .
It’s never to late .
I have now gone back to Karate as I am older/wiser/not as angry/young/stupid and now enjoy it.
Maybe my instructor is a better instructor than my previous instructor.
I do self defence and Krav Maga.
They mix well but are completely different forms.

I will never be a black belt but I plug away at it and bollox to anyone who comments on my lack of progress in the belt hierarchy .

As for coping with injuries: I am partially deaf, have a very broken hand , and a bad back.
If Sensi sets me an exercise nd I can’t do it, as long as I try , Sensi is ok with that Thumbs Up

Go when you feel up to it Thumbs Up
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

what I miss about martial arts is the group training

like, I once managed 200 sit ups, cos the whole senior class was trying to keep going, on my own I'd stop much,much earlier.

A trail riding friend of mine co-owns Storm Gym in Luton
https://stormgym.co.uk/fighters/

but it's just too far for me to go, and I don't like regular gyms, I just enjoy group training and yeah I kinda miss martial arts a bit too
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
A shed load of interesting stuff about hybrid martial arts.


What about Pepperami’s mixed martial arts of running away, and crying like a little girl.
I have black belts in both Thumbs Up Smile .
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
MarJay wrote:
A shed load of interesting stuff about hybrid martial arts.


What about Ppperami’s mixed martial arts of running away, and crying like a little girl.
I have black belts in both Thumbs Up Smile .


Yup, danger has stared me in the back of the head many times too.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are Wing Chun classes near here, walking distance from home Very Happy

£8 per session, one and a half hours, which seems cheap on the face of it Smile

I can't even afford that Sad

Gotta get fit first, then get a job.

Meanwhile, gotta keep inspired to achieve these simple aims.
I've started putting together some stretching/flexibility sessions.
I have all day, every day, but can only do so much at the moment.
I'm working on it.

I don't want to fight anyone. That's not what I'm interested to get from it all.

Talking to you lot helps me to get motivated Thumbs Up Smile
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

thx1138 wrote:
what I miss about martial arts is the group training

like, I once managed 200 sit ups, cos the whole senior class was trying to keep going, on my own I'd stop much,much earlier.


Yup, I remember that from my younger days. You push each other. I've got to somehow find that drive for myself, and maintain it, which is going to be the really tricky bit.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 20 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think I've got a stretching routine to work with now. Jeez, but I'd forgotten how hard even that can be when you're not used to it! 40mins was enough to reduce me to a huffing and puffing, sweat-dripping wreck. Managed a few other exercises after that, but that's it for tonight. I'm buggered.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 21 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

cycled 30 miles yesterday, averaged 16.5 mph yesterday
cycled 35 miles today, averaged 17.5mph today

decided not to go to my running club tonight, I know I'm pretty much ready for the half marathon in 10 days time, will do park run Saturday
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Sload
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 21 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those just wanting to get a level of fitness back and to not feel crap all of the time, just get a bicycle and commit to using whenever you can.
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recman
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PostPosted: 16:49 - 21 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Well, I think I've got a stretching routine to work with now. Jeez, but I'd forgotten how hard even that can be when you're not used to it! 40mins was enough to reduce me to a huffing and puffing, sweat-dripping wreck. Managed a few other exercises after that, but that's it for tonight. I'm buggered.


I quite like a decent stretch at work but I'm able to do bits and pieces throughout the shift.
I don't go full on yoga but what I do loosens me up nicely.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 21 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

recman wrote:


I quite like a decent stretch at work but I'm able to do bits and pieces throughout the shift.
I don't go full on yoga but what I do loosens me up nicely.


I'm doing what I remember from Lau Gar classes, so it's fairly specialised, especially on the legs, plus some other bits I've picked up here and there.
It has taught me something very important - that I currently have bugger-all flexibility Laughing
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recman
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 21 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's quite an eye opener when you get into stretching and flexibility movements, isn't it?
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