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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 10 Dec 2016    Post subject: Woodworking... Reply with quote

Anyone here that does woodwork?

I'm looking at building some storage, I have an idea in my head as to what I want and how I'm going to do it. The problem I'm finding is where to source the wood from. I've managed to work out I need PSE but all the places I look only seem to deal with hardwood. I'm looking at pine, for cost reasons*. I know Wickes and B&Q do wood but I'm doubtful of the quality and straightness of it.

I have zero woodworking tools and even less space to put them so there's no chance of getting a planer/thicknesser or tools of that size. I'm prepared to buy tools, but more along the lines of hand tools and a circular saw and perhaps a mitre saw too.

Tips on wood supply, recommended tools appreciated.

*also because I'm a bit shit at this sort of thing it might end up being firewood.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 10 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Structurally graded timber is the answer. CLS timber is normally pretty dense and usually pretty straight.

For shelves I'd use 18mm MDF, or 18mm WBP ply if it's going to be somewhere damp.

Chopsaw, skilsaw, jigsaw should be all the tools you need. The RAGE chopsaws offer good bang for buck.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 10 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried your local builders merchants? Travis Perkins/JT Atkinson etc.

Chopsaw is invaluable.

Don't underestimate how good modern glue can be. I made a storage unit for my kitchen a while back using 5 minute polyurethane adhesive. Didn't even bother jointing, just cut the ends square, applied the adhesive and bunged them in a sash clamp for 5 minutes while I cut the next bits.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 10 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm banned from Wicks in Barnsley and B&Q in Wakefield after laying out many many lengths of timer on the aisle floor trying to find lengths that did not curve, weren't twisted and didn't bow, I needed 12 lengths.

I left Wicks with 2 and B&Q with 4.

These twisted at a later date once what I was building had been 90% completed and so it got chopped up and re-used elsewhere.

Local timber merchant is where you want to be looking, the DIY superstores buy cheap timber that's young trees and kiln dried so that the production process is faster (and cheaper) which is what causes the warping.

If possible you want any timber you buy to be stored where it's going to be used for a bit of time before you start work so it can acclimatise to the atmospheric conditions of that location, or so I've been told.
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jnw010
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 10 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look at youtube videos on the Kreg pocket hole jig. The cheapest version is less than £20 and will enable reasonably strong joints, easily.

For timber, definitely builders merchants over big box stores. Planed All Round will cost you a bit more, but without the equipment you don't have much choice.

If you're looking at circular saws, definitely look into the plunge / rail saws. The top ones are very expensive, but there are cheaper versions that make cutting sheet stuff much easier.

A small router is pretty handy for rounding over edges, and capable of a lot more if you start getting into it.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 23:45 - 10 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:
I'm banned from Wicks in Barnsley and B&Q in Wakefield after laying out many many lengths of timer on the aisle floor trying to find lengths that did not curve, weren't twisted and didn't bow, I needed 12 lengths.

I left Wicks with 2 and B&Q with 4.

These twisted at a later date once what I was building had been 90% completed and so it got chopped up and re-used elsewhere.


You got lucky. Last bits of wood I needed were lengths of skirting board. B&Q in Leeds didn't have a single piece that wasn't warped, damp or full of knots on the tapered end.

Ended up picking up the best two that were usable up until knots about 2/3 down, finding a manager and getting them to mark the price down because I'd worked myself up into a right strop by this point.

tl;dr Don't go to B&Q.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

jnw010 wrote:

A small router is pretty handy for rounding over edges, and capable of a lot more if you start getting into it.


Having just bought an entry level router, I can confirm it is a dead handy piece of kit.

You can also destroy a piece of expensive wood in an inordinately short period of time if used unwisely.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 02:40 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

My little bro, who's in your neck of the woods, uses Ridgeon's in Bury St Edmunds, but also checks prices at Jewson's and Travis Perkins.

As mentioned previously, CLS is the best bet if you can find nice lengths but if the applications are for garage/workshop/mancave I always found that tanalised (or should I say, the pressure treated stuff that has replaced true tanalised woods) woods were cheaper and it was easier to find good clean lengths than CLS. You probably don't want to put offcuts/cock ups in the woodburner though, unless you are absolutely certain that the treatment method is burn friendly.

A half decent handsaw, tape measure and cordless drill are the barest minimum you can get away with for the kind of project you have in mind. Good modern saws (I prefer 'toolbox' style saws over longer traditional style saws, actually I prefer Japanese but we're not talking fine joinery and unlimited budget here) can usually be used as a square.
Don't skimp on either saw or tape measure quality, there is nothing worse than a cheap measure with an iffy end hook.
Then precise measuring (measure twice, cut once Wink ) and careful, relaxed saw technique should see some great results.

Cut square ends (as also previously mentioned above), then PU glue (sparingly!!!) and screw together.

Remember that woodworking should be a cathartic enjoyable experience, if you rush it you'll probably end up hating the item every time you set eyes upon it!!!
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

You periodically get Japanese pull saws in Lidl. Mine cost £15.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
You periodically get Japanese pull saws in Lidl. Mine cost £15.


My Axminster saws weren't a lot pricier (can't get them a blade for 15 quid nowadays though) but I have found that cheapo Jap saws have wider blades and are like using pruning saws - the experience was quite off putting after using a blade that is 0.3mm wide.

(Damn, I've just taken a gander at the APTC site and my favoured Dozuki-me is going for 38.50 quid!!!)
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you like jap saws, have you tried a shinto file? Lovely bit of kit.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/stinkwheel/canoe%202016/canoe%20build/CIMG0613.jpg
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recman
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have my Spear & Jackson skew-back and tenon saws from my 2 year YTS chippie course I did after I left school 31 years ago.
They don't see much action but I can't chuck 'em.
If there's lots of work I'll break out the chop saw, its only a B&Q performance power jobbie but it does the biz.
Also have a router, planer, couple of jigsaws, circular saw and quite a few other non-woodwork related electrical helpers.

I'd say to anyone embarking on any kind of wood structure project, clamps are your friend.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

recman wrote:

I'd say to anyone embarking on any kind of wood structure project, clamps are your friend.


Use ALL the clamps!

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/stinkwheel/canoe%202016/canoe%20build/CIMG0788.jpg

This kind of spring clamp/clip gets a surprisingly good hold. They are normally sold to hold tarps onto market stalls and are cheap as chips. The addition of a bit of plastic hose over the end stops them marking the wood.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

recman wrote:

I'd say to anyone embarking on any kind of wood structure project, clamps are your friend.


Glad you mentioned this, couldn't agree more. Don't know how I never mentioned it myself, I SWEAR by mine.
Use them all the time. I use this type, I have a couple of pairs and they are robust and reliable. Cheap too.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/irwin-quick-grip-12-mini-one-handed-bar-clamp/98247?kpid=98247&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=CJHiwP3U7NACFYiT7Qod0DYHiQ
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recman
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a load of those quick grip clamps holding the cross beam in your pic, also got quite a few bigger sash type quick grips.
They've proved invaluable over the years.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make me a few of these. I'm gonna then plant them in the shops to see people getting pissed by buying wooden fish. Twisted Evil

http://www.rouming.cz/upload/homemade_fish.jpg
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
If you like jap saws, have you tried a shinto file? Lovely bit of kit.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/stinkwheel/canoe%202016/canoe%20build/CIMG0613.jpg


I've been using those since the mid nineties. Think I'm on my fourth or fifth one now.
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fatjames
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PostPosted: 11:09 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to jump in half way through, but if you don't want to spend as much as a plunge saw / circular saw, here is a nice compromise;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00UAKY060/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Comes with a guide that you can clamp to your work as well as 3 different blades.

I've not used one, but have ordred one based on reviews. Cut depth is 45mm, so will be ample for my use.

Youtube suggestions;
1. Woodworking for mere mortals (WWMM)
2. Mattias Wandel.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatjames wrote:
2. Mattias Wandel.


Yeah, really like his box joint jig using cogs...
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jnw010
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hand tool suggestion...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thor-Soft-Faced-Hammer-31-712r/dp/B0001P0YF0/ref=pd_cp_60_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=KS39YM81MEF44XP8QFYH

One of the youtubers and professional instructors rated these as preferable to a wooden mallet. I have to agree it's nice to use and is great with chisels and for all other manner of knocking things together and apart (both woodwork and non-woodwork).

One of my other most handy tools is a small block plane, although a no.4 plane is probably more all round use for starting out.
It really starts to depend on how you're making the storage and what sort of finish you're going for.
Once you get into hand planes and chisels, you're immediately into sharpening them, although you can keep it simple with wet n dry paper on a flat surface.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatjames wrote:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00UAKY060/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Comes with a guide that you can clamp to your work as well as 3 different blades.

I've not used one, but have ordred one based on reviews. Cut depth is 45mm, so will be ample for my use.


I have one of those and can vouch for them being an excellent bit of kit. Thumbs Up
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grr666
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 12 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

I have one of those and can vouch for them being an excellent bit of kit. Thumbs Up

Ditto.
Just replaced some plumber butchered floorboards from my upstairs landing. Trusted this to cut VERY close to
pipes and wiring. Great tool. Cuts well. Feels solid.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 04 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've built something, yay me! nothing special since it's a tool to help me make stuff, but it is a start (apologies for shitty photo, low light issues..)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/188253/_bcf/mowa/woody/part1.png

I didn't document the process since nobody wants to fee a fat bloke puffing and wheezing on the verge of a coronary and that it's fairly straight forward to do.

Width is 495mm (19.5")
Length is 1005mm (39.5")

Realistically largest size I can get from it is 1000mm x 400mm but as it is it's pretty heavy. Originally it was going to be 1000mm x 1000mm but that's heavy and not that easy to move about or store so I thought I'd opt for the smaller version to start Very Happy

Tools used:

Hand saw
Square
Drill (10mm bit, 10mm flat bit, 40mm flat bit)
Glue
Screws
M8 threaded inserts
M8 bolts + wingnuts + washers
M8 Star knobs
Sellotape

It took most of today to make, including cleanup. Half laps need a little more fettling as I would prefer them not to be so tight. Hopefully next week I'll be able to get started on part 2 where I get to test to see if it actually works or is just another piece of shite I tried to make.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 12 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm re-posting stuff, that I've already posted elsewhere, but not many of you come to my corner and this is too cool not to post it here.

http://cdn.fishki.net/upload/post/2017/02/11/2216139/bcb5b09525830740f130a066b5e879aa.gif
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recman
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 13 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
I know I'm re-posting stuff, that I've already posted elsewhere, but not many of you come to my corner and this is too cool not to post it here.

http://cdn.fishki.net/upload/post/2017/02/11/2216139/bcb5b09525830740f130a066b5e879aa.gif


Strangely arousing.
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