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GSX 400 spark issue

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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: GSX 400 spark issue Reply with quote

I have a GSX400 bandit and one of the coils doesn’t produce a spark.

The other side sparks and when I plug the coil into the other side of the loom (instead of the other coil) the coil is fine and sparks fine so it’s not the actual coil.

The good coil doesn’t work either when wired to the bad side wiring!

The voltage is the same as the battery on both sides of the wiring with ignition on!

Any other ideas to try and rectify this?
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can have +12v on both sides of the coil circuit (orange wire) and not have a spark. I would be checking continuity from the other side of the coils (white wire one side, black / yellow other) to the CDI plug for a start. If you have a spark i can't see it being the pulser coil as there is only one output (uses a wasted spark).
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 18:58 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the reply, much appreciated.

Is there two seperate supply’s from the CDI? One for each coil? I will be checking the continuity in the morning definitely.

The right side wiring sparks absolutely fine with either coil, so I’d say the coils are fine!! I’m thinking it’s likely to be a possible wiring/CDI issue, am I on the right lines here??

Or

Would the right side not spark either if it was a CDI issue??

Thanks again, I’m learning so maybe silly questions
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The coils share a common 12V feed (orange or orange / white depending on the model). If you have 12V between the orange wire and earth from both coil plugs (and both coils fire if tried on one side) then the issue must be between the coils and the CDI. You need to measure continuity between the other side of the coil plugs and the CDI multiplug to elimnate the possibility of a broken wire in the loom. If the wiring checks out it could well be the CDI that's at fault as there is a transistor for each coil feed and they can fail with age.
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again,

I’ve just been out and there is continuity from each wire at the coil back to the corresponding wire at the CDI!!

This would point towards an issue with the CDI I presume??

Is there any other tests I could do on the CDI? Before I start the search for a replacement??

Much appreciated
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

CDI ignition works by having the coil powered at all times and the ignition unit switching the return side to create the spark.

From your diagnosis it seems that you have power to both coils but only one sparks and if you plug the non-sparking one into the other side it then does spark.

You don't say if you tried the sparking one in the non-sparking side?

My next move would be to pull the CDI plug and carefully inspect both male and female terminals. Any sign of black or green crud could indicate a poor contact. I'd also be tempted to pop the pins out of the CDI plug and reverse them, to eliminate a wiring fault. If you do both of those and it's still dead I would say the CDI is a goner.
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Yeah I have tried the good coil on the bad side but that makes no difference!

No crud or green stuff but it does look like something has got hot around there, I will try swapping the terminals over tomorrow but yeah I think it’s the CDI to be honest.

Thanks again
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without the Suzuki test unit I've yet to see a 100% accurate way of checking the CDI unit, so i'd assume if wiring and coils check out ok then the fault must be within the CDI itself (usually a blown transistor).

Plenty of chinky CDI's on amazon / ebay, just make sure you get the right pin layout as later bikes are different which coincides with the 54ps limit.
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be possible to try the gsx 600/900 CDI? They look exactly the same and the first few numbers are the same or would they be completely different?

There are lots on ebay for £20/30
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 02 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farmingstock wrote:
Would it be possible to try the gsx 600/900 CDI? They look exactly the same and the first few numbers are the same or would they be completely different?

There are lots on ebay for £20/30


If the pin configuration is the same then they should work, the Rev limit and ignition curve won’t suit the 400 engine though.
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 03 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Managed to sort the sparking issue, well all four plugs spark now!! So it’s a start, after trying to get the engine started tho (it hasn’t been started for a while) some how managed to set on fire, luckily I dragged everything out including the petrol can that was on fire!!

Anyway!! The carb was leaking and there must have been a short on the starter that’s just underneath or something I don’t know, but next job is rebuilding the carbs! I have stripped and am now soaking! All jets were bunged so no wonder it didn’t start! But I need some parts!

They don’t have a model number on them anywhere just Mikuni that’s it!

Any ideas on model number??
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 18:58 - 03 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You’ll need these for a start.

https://www.litetek.co/Carb_Kit_Suzuki_GSF400.html
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s great thanks for that, I think I’m gonna need both sets and some sort of washers that hold the springs down! The carbs look like they are off a different bike as they don’t match the gsf carbs maybe the RF400.

This engine is for a project I am working on and it’s not going in the original bike! But should it have an electronic fuel pump to actually run as a start up test or in general and where does the carbs get the vacuum from for the top pipe.

Thanks again for being so helpful
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farmingstock wrote:
Managed to sort the sparking issue, well all four plugs spark now!! So it’s a start, after trying to get the engine started tho (it hasn’t been started for a while) some how managed to set on fire, luckily I dragged everything out including the petrol can that was on fire!!

Anyway!! The carb was leaking and there must have been a short on the starter that’s just underneath or something I don’t know, but next job is rebuilding the carbs! I have stripped and am now soaking! All jets were bunged so no wonder it didn’t start! But I need some parts!

They don’t have a model number on them anywhere just Mikuni that’s it!

Any ideas on model number??


See those four off-white plastic housings in the big tin, they plug into the carb bodies with o-rings to seal. You should carefully inspect those things because they look like all they do is hold the floats but the ones on my sister's bike had little jets in them that fed the cold starting circuit and they were so clogged up with crud you couldn't even tell that the jets were there.
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads up, I will check them out not noticed a valve tho tbh
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 20 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know the firing order on the Suzuki 400 bandit engine?

I’ve got spark, rebuilt the carbs but am just getting nothing or intermittent backfiring from the exhaust.

I know one coil is 1 and 4 and the other coil is 2 and 3!!

But looking forward from the carb side, is number 1 on the left and should it matter which coil wiring on which side??

Thanks
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 20 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farmingstock wrote:
Does anyone know the firing order on the Suzuki 400 bandit engine?

I’ve got spark, rebuilt the carbs but am just getting nothing or intermittent backfiring from the exhaust.

I know one coil is 1 and 4 and the other coil is 2 and 3!!

But looking forward from the carb side, is number 1 on the left and should it matter which coil wiring on which side??

Thanks


1-4 left to right as you sit on the bike. The HT leads are usually obviously the proper length and it doesn't matter if you get 1/4 or 2/3 backwards but it DOES matter if you put the wrong 12v wires on the coils.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 20 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I’m trying to get the engine running on a stand off the frame, so have had a lot of figuring out to do.

Looks like I may have the coils on the wrong wiring!!
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 21 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve tried different combinations and still can’t get it to start!! After 30 seconds or more of turning it over the plugs are dry, although it should be getting fuel as the carbs have been rebuilt and the jets are clean and clear??

Any ideas???
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 21 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farmingstock wrote:
....I’m trying to get the engine running on a stand off the frame....

Farmingstock wrote:
....the plugs are dry, although it should be getting fuel as the carbs have been rebuilt....

Any ideas???

How is fuel being delivered to the carbs?
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 21 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:
Farmingstock wrote:
....I’m trying to get the engine running on a stand off the frame....

Farmingstock wrote:
....the plugs are dry, although it should be getting fuel as the carbs have been rebuilt....

Any ideas???

How is fuel being delivered to the carbs?


I have just got a gravity fed temp tank, fuel it getting to the carbs as it leaks out when I undo the overflows, but the plugs are completely dry! If I put my hand over the carbs when turning over there is plenty of suction and fuel comes out on my hand.
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Farmingstock
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 22 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any other ideas?? There is definitely spark, compression and fuel, I’m not sure on weather the vacum part of the carbs are opening as I can’t see them?? How do they lift??

I haven’t tried any easy start yet, it just seems to either do nothing or spit out of the carbs or backfire!!

I’m banging my head against the wall
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