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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: your bike's / bikes' suspension settings Reply with quote

Quick question - do you run your bike on its standard suspension settings, or if not, how and to what extent are they adjusted - and why?

If you've fitted after-market forks / fork internals / rear shock(s), etc. how did you arrive at the settings you now use? E.g. did you set the sag yourself, or get a dedicated place to do it? Etc.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

unzip, read, absorb, ????, Profit.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have aftermarket shocks, there is no adjustment, but that's because I ordered the cheapest shite that would work. It's a ratted cruiser, not a track weapon Wink
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Trev! Rolling Eyes This is a can of worms dude. You think 'Simple question'...Tell yer it is the darkest of arts with many proclaiming they are the doktor.

With that said have you changed the fork oil recently and checked the spring lengths etc as these give you a stable platform to compare from.

e.g The oil in the ST2 is old, I know this because during a long ride or if I'm making good progress I notice the change in rebound. If the adjusters were at the fork tops I'd be adding a couple of clicks.

So in answer to Q1 No.

As for Q2 it's common for aftermarket manufactures to offer suspension parts that are made to measure. Again using the ST2 as an example. The rear shock is undersprung for what I carry on it. My guess is that the bike was tested by a couple of slender Italians who packed nothing but skimpy underwear into the panniers and not a 13 stone bloke (possibly 14 stone when fully soaked through in winter kit and helmet.) carrying a 9 stone pillion and camping gear for 10 days.

I set the preload so I've got about 20-30mm of travel (front and back obvs) when I sit on the bike kitted up. marker pen and tape measure and using the wall of the shed to aid me as I'm trying to read the measurement..Requires 2 people for pedantry purposes.

Then using the factory compression and rebound 'recommendations' I ride the bike and ride and unless it's glaringly obvious like crazy fork dive or iron girder compression I stick with it for a good while before making subtle adjustments....which TBH is a complete compromise.

It's never quite right for the bad surfaced rutted roads nor is it for the ultra smooth long sweeping corners.

It's surprising how you can ignore a poor setup if you're riding conservatively. My friend didn't notice only one fork had oil in his duevlle and the preload was on max (he weighs nowt).

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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just stiffen the rear preload, because I'm a fat fuck.
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TheMadRatter
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:

It's surprising how you can ignore a poor setup if you're riding conservatively.


Yup - hard-tailed one of mine and it's "fine" Razz (okay, I've hard-tailed a few of mine and like it...) Smaller hardtails than the original shocks means a lower back end and kicked out front end, fubar'd handling, but they're "fine" Very Happy
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^I added progressive springs in the CB250RS and then 2 two pence pieces under the fork caps. Mucho better.
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Blah blah
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Current bike has preload adjusted at the rear to get the sag somewhere near but will be replaced (with a nitron probably) later in the year.

Forks have been swapped from non adjustable horrible things for some multi adjustable TIN forks. I took a guess at the set up as my current bike is c30kg less than the bike they came off and they're set up from the factory for 8 stone Italians (I may be slightly heavier) but they're still a bit hard... I can't adjust them enough so I'll change the springs for some softer ones.

I'll probably sort both when funds allow as this bike's a keeper
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: your bike's / bikes' suspension settings Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Quick question - do you run your bike on its standard suspension settings

Yes, I assume major manufacturers know more about suspension than me Whistle

...aaand I'm not Michael Dunlop.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always made adjustments to the suspension settings whilst leaving tyre pressures as standard (36 psi front, 42 psi rear). You can make a noticeable improvement in how the bike enters and exits a corner, for example if you find your bike tends to run wide. It's a tricky task, and changes to the front can affect the rear (and vice versa). The Go Star Racing set up guide below is pretty good.
https://www.gostar-racing.com/club/motorcycle_suspension_set-up.htm


Last edited by Kawasaki Jimbo on 20:11 - 04 Jan 2018; edited 1 time in total
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worth setting the bike up for your weight and riding style as per the PDF I created from an ancient Bike magazine article.

It tells you how to set preload, compression and rebound damping. Unfortunately it predates high and low speed compression.

It's also good to get the spring rates right for your weight, especially if you're not Mr Average.
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notabikeranym...
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got my suspension done by Brian Nicholson at BN Race Science because a friend recommended it.

Best £100 I've spent, and I have a spec sheet with the stock settings and the current settings / recommendations on what to change/why.

The bike handles completely differently, in a good way.

Let me test run it after every change, and also road tested it himself as he was making changes.

Would recommend.
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Bozzy.
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Meef, I paid someone to set mine up for me. I used TW Suspension who are based in Preston. He’s the guy who did Josh Brookes’ suspension on the Norton SG6 that raced in last years TT.

It was £40 and well worth it!
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: your bike's / bikes' suspension settings Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Quick question - do you run your bike on its standard suspension settings

Yes, I assume major manufacturers know more about suspension than me Whistle

...aaand I'm not Michael Dunlop.


They may do, but they will also set up a bike to be happy with a 6 stone or 26 stone rider, or even a 20 stone rider and a 16 stone pillion.

Getting the bike tailored to you is about the best money you can spend. Better than a full system, better than a power commander, and better than any anodised tat.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got standard shocks on my trail bike and on my enduro bike

trail bike not adjusted, enduro bike set a bit soft on rear, I don't really jump it though so not an issue, just little bunny hops over things
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The forks on my 400 cost me £500 to get overhauled and set up at Brooks. This is money well spent, probably 3-5 seconds a lap cause I can stuff it into braking zones much harder.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 04 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^You spend it as you see fit but please tell us that included new internals?
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 05 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
^^^You spend it as you see fit but please tell us that included new internals?


They are SP forks so decent spec but yes it did include revalve and shim stacks.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:15 - 05 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bought springs and shock of Wilburs. Did what they told me.

Was observed running wide on corners by a racer friend who advised dropping the front end about an inch, mainly because I'd been used to riding round with about 4" of rider sag before I resprung the bike and it felt like I was riding round doing a wheelie all the time. Did that too.

Both made a huge difference.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 05 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: your bike's / bikes' suspension settings Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Quick question


Laughing

Quote:
If you've fitted after-market forks / fork internals / rear shock(s), etc. how did you arrive at the settings you now use? E.g. did you set the sag yourself, or get a dedicated place to do it? Etc.


Pure blind luck Smile
The non-standard rear shock was set up for me by the chap who fitted it. Well, I say set up - he asked me what my weight was, and dialled it in for that.
The front forks were a lucky find. I was after R1 forks, and got a set that had the K-Tech magic already worked on them. Now, it may be that they could be set up to be even better than they currently are, but I have not been able to fault them as they came.

In the past, I have put up with some shocking ( Razz ) set-ups, simply because I don't really know (as in "haven't got a fucking clue mate" Laughing ) what I'm doing with it all myself. Never stopped me from riding a bike as hard as I could, although obviously poor suspension set-ups were probably limiting that - considerably in some cases. If in doubt, I tended to set up to a fairly 'harsh' ride, as I prefer something that feels controlled on a smooth road to having the thing wallowing all over the shop. That's about as technical as I ever got with it.
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Monkeypony
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 05 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Aprilia is as it was from the Factory. I'm getting the sag properly adjusted on the Husqvarna tomorrow.

Suspsension is one of those jobs where I'd much rather pay someone who knows what they are doing to tinker with. It's very possible to get yourself into a right pickle with trail and error adjustment.
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Dr. DaveJPS
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 05 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meef wrote:
Got my suspension done by Brian Nicholson at BN Race Science because a friend recommended it.


Where is he based, cause I've got his stickers on my forks but couldn't find anything about them online. I've since had them adjusted for my weight/style at a trackday which was a great improvement.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 05 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend was at Brands for a trackday on his 675 and was not perfectly happy with the setup that he had.So he approached the attending 'expert' who questioned the riders weight and then set about adjusting what was available....for £80.After another session out on track then the 'expert' was revisited and more adjustments made,none of which seemed like good value for money as the bike handled better,but not £80 better.

Now I am no suspension expert and only know what I have tried over the years by trial and error.But when the symptoms were explained,it suggested that the front was running too high.I suggested that maybe the forks should be dropped by maybe 5-6mm through the yokes.With this suggestion in mind,the 'expert' was revisited once again.The response by the 'expert' was why does every keyboard warrior think that dropping the forks makes for a perfect handling bike.Well,the bike was not adjusted by the 'expert' in the way suggested and my friend returned to the pit lane none the wiser.After another session on track,we did drop the forks by 6mm and the difference was worth the effort,so my friend said afterwards.

On a personal note,when I first bought my Exup1000,I had never owned a bike that the magazines said handled so well handle so badly.The front wallowed all over the place,so this seemed like the best place to start.
So I measured the fork springs and they had sacked out slightly but were well within service limits,according to the Yamaha manual (not the Haynes).So a pair of 'Progressive Suspension' springs were bought and installed,together with some quality fork oil of the correct amount and weight.But,no matter how much I adjusted things,it did not go where I wanted.The Yamaha manual also gave details about how the standard rear shock should be adjusted for preload and damping settings for a single rider.After a ten mile rideout to test those settings,it still did not feel right.The damping setting suggested 4 or 5 clicks out from hardest and the preload suggestion was a certain measured amount and so I cranked up the preload to hardest and the damping setting,which the book suggests is rebound,set to 3 clicks out from hardest.This stopped the rear from sagging so much and stopped the front from going so light under hard acceleration.A much improved situation with a little bit of trial and error.

But it still did not seem as good as it could be.

Another friend had tried an EMC Race shock on his FireBlade track bike and had never found that 'sweet' setting that many search for.The Race shock had adjusters for preload,compression and rebound damping but only came with a preload spanner and no instructions.I was assured that the clickers were set up for a person my weight and riding style and so the shocks were transposed.The preload was adjusted for the right SAG and after a test ride it felt worse than the standard shock.A compromise was sought and so I rode down to the south of France with it as best as I could get.I kept notes about what I adjusted along the way,but again I never found that sweet setting that I was after.

After I returned I was out with another friend when the shock blew the seals along the A272 and I got home on a bike where the back end pogoed about all over the place.As I was due to go to Assen for the WSB the next day the only option was to use the standard shock,so on that went.The handling was transformed from what I had.

At the end of the day I replaced the EMC shock,which could not be rebuilt for some reason,with an Ohlins unit that I bought for a very good price.This changed the rear completely.So much so that the front progressively wound springs did not balance the bike,so they were replaced with Ohlins straight rate springs.With weights and amounts of oil adjusted after I had installed some 'Cartridge Fork Emulators' from Race-Tech in the USA,the handling is almost perfect.

And yes,dropping the forks through the yokes by a few millimetres did make a difference Dance!
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 05 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff guys. I've got the 9's adjusted back to standard - the forks were screwed right the way down, and holy crap was the whole thing wallowing every where and at any opportunity. On the upside, it was so ludicrously comfy. But I wanted something that felt less like a really fast mattress, so had the 20 year old fork oil drained and some new poured in. I assume it was that old - nothing in the inherited paperwork suggested otherwise, and the state the oil was in also indicated lack of renewal.

Well, things have improved markedly. However the rear shock won't harden up much - perhaps it's lost some gas? Debating a Nitron, although a guy up the road has a decent i.e. much younger 10r shock he said I could have. Is longer than the 9's so a bit quicker turning in.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 06 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think some suspension units you could play around with forever and never get things handling nicely. Even some modern fully adjustable units I suspect just don't have the quality, or something like that.

Before the R1 forks went on mine, I too dropped the bike down the standard forks by about 10mm. It made for a noticeably quicker turn-in, the only downside I found was that it lost some stability right at the very top speed, which was worth the trade-off as it's not very often I see 150+mph on the clock, and an adjustment in riding position seemed to settle it anyway.

The R1 forks are set up to give me the standard bike's geometry. People on the Fazer forum have questioned whether an R6 rear shock can ever be right for the heavier Fazer 1000. All I know is that it is better than a brand new Hagon unit (which I had on an earlier bike), although that wasn't bad, and light years ahead of the performance of the standard item, even when in reasonable fettle.
The first thing I did was the R6 shock replacement. This improved things enough that I was able to push the bike to the point where I would swear I was noticing some flex in the standard forks. So the R1 forks seemed like a worthwhile investment, and so have proved to be. In fact, I had thought that the rear shock replacement would make the most difference, but the fork replacement absolutely transformed the bike, way beyond my expectations.

I am now at a point where I feel I no longer need to mess with it all, bearing in mind it is strictly a road bike. This is the first time in more than 30 years of riding I have been at this point Smile

I do wonder about whether the forks could possibly now do with servicing by K-Tech - no idea if they recommend this from time to time for more than just taking more money off folks - but I haven't noticed any drop-off in performance in probably something like 30k miles.

Quite a few of the guys on the Fazer forum highly recommend Nitron rear shocks, which is probably who I would go to if the R6 unit supply ever dried up.
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